Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/689863.page

People argued about that already.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Aren't those rules an update to the flyer rules?

Supplements are always optional.

GW said it was optional. It doesn't get more official than that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
GW said it was optional. It doesn't get more official than that.

Thank god. I'm certainly not using those god-awful rules.

So what happens when one player wants to use them and the other player doesn't?
Say a Dark Eldar player and a Necron player.
Can they just use whatever rules they want for their units?

I was wondering the same. I'd assume it means that one play can using the rules and the other can choose not to. Meaning we can continue to take Nightscythes from the Necron Codex while someone else can take the new flyers for their army. Does that create any conflicts? I haven't read the book.

I don't think the DE got any new Fliers, and I'm pretty sure they're performing worse with the supplement. Plus, as a Space Marine player, I've already Stormtalons and haven't a need for the new Flier rules.

Not sure how Orks fared; I heard their new Flier was bad.

I'd just like to chime in on tarpits.

The best deathstars out there, Invisible or not (who are we kidding, always invisible) have Hit and Run. Not Screamerstar, but good luck catching that if it doesn't want to be hit. And since Hit and Run is a stupid as hell rule that doesn't have a counter, you can never just hope to "tie up" most Deathstars that are run at a competitive level. Wraiths can survive, sure, and even Warriors have numbers to stick around and slap back, but then they'll just back off and go after important targets next turn.

H&R really should require the whole squad to have it, tbh.

Requizen wrote:
I'd just like to chime in on tarpits.

The best deathstars out there, Invisible or not (who are we kidding, always invisible) have Hit and Run. Not Screamerstar, but good luck catching that if it doesn't want to be hit. And since Hit and Run is a stupid as hell rule that doesn't have a counter, you can never just hope to "tie up" most Deathstars that are run at a competitive level. Wraiths can survive, sure, and even Warriors have numbers to stick around and slap back, but then they'll just back off and go after important targets next turn.

H&R really should require the whole squad to have it, tbh.

What's the best way to give our deathsar H&R?

Zandrekh can sometimes copy the SR from the enemy.

If we run, for example, Tau as allies and use Zandrekh's copy SR ability can we make our own star with H&R and have that list be competitive?

col_impact wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'd just like to chime in on tarpits.

The best deathstars out there, Invisible or not (who are we kidding, always invisible) have Hit and Run. Not Screamerstar, but good luck catching that if it doesn't want to be hit. And since Hit and Run is a stupid as hell rule that doesn't have a counter, you can never just hope to "tie up" most Deathstars that are run at a competitive level. Wraiths can survive, sure, and even Warriors have numbers to stick around and slap back, but then they'll just back off and go after important targets next turn.

H&R really should require the whole squad to have it, tbh.

What's the best way to give our deathsar H&R?

Zandrekh can sometimes copy the SR from the enemy.

If we run, for example, Tau as allies and use Zandrekh's copy SR ability can we make our own star with H&R and have that list be competitive?

I dunno if we want to. First, we're not fast enough to really warrant it - the armies that take advantage of H&R are the ones that use it to jump out and hit better targets. But our Deathstars are pretty slow, especially if you're trying to string along Zahndrekh. It's a good rule to evade tarpits, but honestly even if we jump out it's probably not like we're going to get something else. If it were easy to get the rule, it'd be one thing, but no reason to build the army around it.

Secondly, Initiative 2 doesn't really lend itself to Hit and Run. Imperials and Eldar pass on 1-5. Necrons... are much worse.

Requizen wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'd just like to chime in on tarpits.

The best deathstars out there, Invisible or not (who are we kidding, always invisible) have Hit and Run. Not Screamerstar, but good luck catching that if it doesn't want to be hit. And since Hit and Run is a stupid as hell rule that doesn't have a counter, you can never just hope to "tie up" most Deathstars that are run at a competitive level. Wraiths can survive, sure, and even Warriors have numbers to stick around and slap back, but then they'll just back off and go after important targets next turn.

H&R really should require the whole squad to have it, tbh.

What's the best way to give our deathsar H&R?

Zandrekh can sometimes copy the SR from the enemy.

If we run, for example, Tau as allies and use Zandrekh's copy SR ability can we make our own star with H&R and have that list be competitive?

I dunno if we want to. First, we're not fast enough to really warrant it - the armies that take advantage of H&R are the ones that use it to jump out and hit better targets. But our Deathstars are pretty slow, especially if you're trying to string along Zahndrekh. It's a good rule to evade tarpits, but honestly even if we jump out it's probably not like we're going to get something else. If it were easy to get the rule, it'd be one thing, but no reason to build the army around it.

Secondly, Initiative 2 doesn't really lend itself to Hit and Run. Imperials and Eldar pass on 1-5. Necrons... are much worse.

Zandrekh is generally a part of a Orikanstar anyway and Tau is imho the best ally so it is worth exploring.

So basically forget everything I said and consider a list built around an Orikanstar with Zandrekh and Tau as an ally (for much needed MC-based artillery).

Doesn't sound too bad, right?

Well, guess what, that list can easily get H&R for free!

col_impact wrote:

Requizen wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I'd just like to chime in on tarpits.

The best deathstars out there, Invisible or not (who are we kidding, always invisible) have Hit and Run. Not Screamerstar, but good luck catching that if it doesn't want to be hit. And since Hit and Run is a stupid as hell rule that doesn't have a counter, you can never just hope to "tie up" most Deathstars that are run at a competitive level. Wraiths can survive, sure, and even Warriors have numbers to stick around and slap back, but then they'll just back off and go after important targets next turn.

H&R really should require the whole squad to have it, tbh.

What's the best way to give our deathsar H&R?

Zandrekh can sometimes copy the SR from the enemy.

If we run, for example, Tau as allies and use Zandrekh's copy SR ability can we make our own star with H&R and have that list be competitive?

I dunno if we want to. First, we're not fast enough to really warrant it - the armies that take advantage of H&R are the ones that use it to jump out and hit better targets. But our Deathstars are pretty slow, especially if you're trying to string along Zahndrekh. It's a good rule to evade tarpits, but honestly even if we jump out it's probably not like we're going to get something else. If it were easy to get the rule, it'd be one thing, but no reason to build the army around it.

Secondly, Initiative 2 doesn't really lend itself to Hit and Run. Imperials and Eldar pass on 1-5. Necrons... are much worse.

Zandrekh is generally a part of a Orikanstar anyway and Tau is imho the best ally so it is worth exploring.

So basically forget everything I said and consider a list built around an Orikanstar with Zandrekh and Tau as an ally (for much needed MC-based artillery).

Doesn't sound too bad, right?

Well, guess what, that list can easily get H&R for free!

Sure, if you're already going that route then it's (relatively) easy to get. A bit of a positioning bugger to keep them close enough, but sure. Doesn't change the fact that it's an Initiative roll and therefore only works 1/3 of the time. It might occasionally save you from a tarpit, but unlike White Scars Grav Biker stars, we have nothing to shoot. It does also allows you to get charge bonuses again, such as Hatred, which can be nice.

You guys might be trying to approach this from the wrong direction. One of our biggest strengths is our ability to tarpit.
Wraths and Scarabs are the undisputed codex champs at this, and even Warriors, Immortals and Lychguard can hold things up for a hell of a long time.
If you're playing against a H&R deathstar, rush up quick with whatever you can to catch it ASAP, even if that means sacrificing Tomb Blades. The rest of your stuff high tails it up as fast as they can, too. The goal is to give them limited options on where to run, planning on engaging them again once they're out of the fray. Using one unit of Tomb Blades and a Canoptek Harvest you can effectively keep them busy while the rest of your army does whatever it wants.

It depends. Wraiths and Lychguard are really good at tarpitting, due to invuls
Scarabs are good at tarpitting as long as the enemy does have have ID.

Warrriors and Immortals are good, as long as they get saves. Without saves their resiliance drops off, but the new RP rule helps them.
However, if they lose even one model, they run the risk of getting swept. This applies to lychguard as well, but they can hold their ground a bit better due to higher toughness and the aforementioned invul.