Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

whirlwindstruggle wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Buy yourself two more Flyrants and field all three

To the OP:

I strongly recommend against doing this. While it would technically make your army stronger, it's very much a TFG, cheesy strategy.

Save that for large tournaments.

He's playing Tyranids. He is not drowning in options for chances to win.

In which case it's better to lose gracefully.

Better advice/real talk: ask your mate to tone his army down if you always lose against him. He can't enjoy winning that much surely? I don't...

And to people suggesting that 3x flyrant in casual isn't cheese, I am gobsmacked.

It really isn't any more, given the relative power of codexes now.

Yeah unfortunately "more flyrants" is tyranids only response to competitive lists. Mawloc are wonderful if he has crisis/broadside suits but are ineffective against Riptides/Stormsurges. if this is s casual game, 2-3 Flyrants is not at all out of line, especially compared to the 5+ of competitive play Nid lists. Just ask your opponent not to bring a tailored list (like 3+ velocity trackers).

 OnlyRevolutions wrote:
Hi everyone.

Thanks again for all the comments on this. I have since won my first ever game! Unfortunately, my openly quickly realised the Swooping Flyrant is the main threat, and so upgraded half his army (crisis suits, broadsides etc.) to have Skyfire! So now I'm sort of back to sq.1.

Is there any way to combat Tau who have Skyfire? Perhaps force a points reduction by having lots of cheap units? I'm running:

Flyrant w/TLDBW and Regen (haven't seen Regen work yet!)

2 units of 10 base Terms (objective grabbers/fodder)
1 unit 12 Horms with toxin (assault threat/tar pit)

1 Lictor (homing beacon for Mawloc)
3 Zoans (in 2 squads)

Mawloc w/Regen (again haven't seen it work).

My deep striking Lictor and Mawloc seem unreliable and don't come in before the Flyrants dead, meaning I can't split the fire focus. Tau seem to easily wipe out 6 wounds in one round of shooting. In an 820 point game!

Not being able to assault on the turn it arrives makes the Mawloc useless if it misses it's Terror From the Deep attack (e.g. If it comes in before the Lictor), because my opponent can focus kill it in 1 turn as I said.

Any advice is welcome, including new units to buy. I was thinking of creating an army around lictors and mawlocs, but I love collecting too so happy to have more varied units.

Thanks!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry I forgot to say, the Tau force is:

Commander in crisis suit (I think - it's an FMC) w/drones

3 X Crisis battlesuits (they have about 3 weps including missile pods which are brutal!)

2 broadsides

Tank thing with rail gun etc.

Few squads of fire warriors with missile turrets etc.

Thanks.

A single lictor is not really going to do much with a single mawloc, and the Lictor really needs to start on the board infiltrated some where safe.

I play both Tau and nids, and you really have to run cheap with lots of bodies and squads or go big with multiple flyrants. Looks like you are running thousand point games, you might try a bit of change in your line up for more units. You are both out numbered and out performed per unit which is going to be bad. Even a genestealer hunting pack would instead of the single lictor and regeneration would improve your game. PIck the broadsides as your preferred enemy, and you now have more targets than tau has guns so Tau players has to decide were the threat is. Threat overload and "tsunami builds" are pretty much the only way to crack Tau.

Your opponent is running a ColdStar upgrade. The High-yeild Burst cannon is going hurt the flyrant.

Well...some good advise...so I'll just toss in some basic ideas...One always take a Thorax hive with Electro grubs for a Tyrant...it's a Template with Haywire. It can do very good work.

If you want a new model, one of the best "low points" big bugs is a Tyrannofex, with Acid spray, and Electo grubs...Two Template, one with Torrent, and a 2+ save. Run it right up the middle and soak up shots while the rest of the army wins for you.


Sorry, I was called away.. Anyhow, the basic key is Threat Overload...basicly you want to throw several threats at once, otherwise your foe can counter you, and for this Tyranids can do pretty well. One "trick" I like to use is making what I call a "Bugstar" using a Big Bug, a source of Synapse, a source of Shrouding, and a screen. I always use Hormagaunts for the screen. This gives you several threats in a package, add in some more and you have a decent chance.

For example a "Bug Star of Tyrannofex, Zoanthrope, Venothrope, and screen of Hormies, threat one, Mawloc, threat two, Winged Tyrant threat three.....


Good luck! And welcome to the Hive Mind!

Not very fluffy but consider taking a Void Shield Generator. Helps give a bit of protection turn 1 so all your flyrants don't get blown off the board before they can take off.

Its not nice of the tau player to tailor his list against you.

So a question: Can you buy more models, or are you on a budget?

The easy way out is to lure the opponent into taking skyfire upgrades, and then stay on the ground. A carnifex (3+ save and 4 wounds) and a venomthrope (shrouded to all within 6": +2 cover save) will get you a long way here. Venomthrope must to its best to stay out of sight. 3+ saves is annoying to tau on low point games. Unfortunately your opponent will likely bring along markerlights soon enough, which will negate cover and/or improve BS of tau unit shooting at a marked target.

A valid tactic, until countered, is to move your flyrant near venomthrope and jink for a 2+ cover save.

Both advices in the threads above are good

Running the Zoanthropes in multiple squads (looks like you have) will give you a better chance of pulling off powers with more Warp Charges, the Neurothrope could be good but pretty much only works in a huge list or when it comes in a Tyrannocyte. Lictors start to work in multiples but are very tough to use singly although if you flawlessly Deep Strike then go to ground somewhere scary they can be a great distraction. At 1000 points you might try drowning the opponent in Gaunts or using a Sporefield or both, Tau shoot like crazy but you can and will overwhelm them when you run your big threats alongside a huge swarm of gribblies. At 1000 points you can run an Endless Swarm for only 400 points, that's three warriors (kit for long distance shooting here) with sixty bodies that may just come back when killed. The cheaper option )if you can get Mucolids) is a bare bones Sporefield Deep Striking in and causing your opponent to make unfavorable shooting choices starting turn two. With bugs you need to think of the movement phase as your most important phase; where is there line of sight blockage, where can I use as a cover stepping stone to set up a later charge, how do I force those markerlights to shoot at less desirable threats, how can I make them move to optimize shooting and get out of position.

If you get new models, Biovores are very bad for Tau. Especially with the Sporefield, and you can use the Spore Mine models for both.

Bring a living artillary node. 3 biovore, 3 warriors with a canon and a exocrine with the ability to reroll scatter.

Nids have 2 major weaknesses, lack of range and lack of high ap. The lan covers both of those weaknesses for about 350 points and provides some synapse. If you can get it to a 6-700 point game that formation should make a difference.

First off, nid's vs tau is always a hard fight. Don't feel bad that you are struggling, it is going to happen. Fortunately, you have some options.

With nid's you basically have three general options: small bug horde, monster horde, and flyer horde. Tau will by and large beat a walking monster horde, but the other two are more interesting. A Tau army that beats flyers will struggle against small bugs, and a tau army that beats small bugs will lose to flyers.

In tournament play nid flyers are the strongest option, (there are some horde builds using the Endless Swarm formation that can do ok, but they are very hard to play), and Tau players don't take the anti-flyer upgrades because there are so few flyer heavy builds in the competitive meta. My experience (as a 5-7 Flying Hive Tyrant player) is that vs Tau in tournaments it is often a coin flip. Sometimes I walk into a hard counter. Sometimes I hard counter the Tau. Most often we pour shots into each other and the game is determined on passing/failing a handful of saves.

At the point levels you are playing I recommend you put together two lists: one flyer heavy and one swarm small bugs. Use the small bugs to punish him for tailoring against you, then switch to the flyers when he wises up. Eventually just start flipping a coin to determine which you play with.

Your flyer list should be: 2 Venomthropes as a single model squads, 3 Mucolid Spores to fill the troops requirement, then flyers. You should get two Flying Hive Tyrants, then two Hive Crones, as points permit. You then add a third Flying Hive Tyrant when you can. Note that you are using the Hive Fleet Detachment from the Shield of Ba'al supplement to get the third Tyrant. It is included in the softcover book from that supplement that has all of the updated and new(ish) Tyranid rules and units.

The Tyrants should have two sets of twin linked Brainleach Devourers, wings, and electroshock grubs. Regeneration is really bad due to being massively over costed and should not be taken. The electroshock grubs are kind of meh against his build, but you will want them against other opponents and should get used to using them.

The Hive Crones can be taken with the Cluster Spines upgrade to get the large blast, but it is not mandatory. Crones are good here because a) the flamer deletes Fire Warriors and Pathfinders by putting S6 AP 4 ignores cover wounds on them, b) the S8 AP 2 vector strike doubles out Crisis Suits with no save, and c) the haywire missiles put wounds on the Hammerhead starting turn 1. Remember that vector strikes ignore cover and do d3 hits vs flyers/flying monsters, so if he runs the flying commander you have and additional threat against him.

Tactics are simple: deploy everything next to the Venomthropes, hope you go first, and fly 24 inches then shoot anything you can reach. Focus on units with skyfire, ignore the hammerhead until last. The bonus from jinking stacks with the cover bonus from Venomthropes for a 2+, and flying monsters can jink even if they are not flying. If you go second, don't be afraid to jink to keep a Tyrant alive. Even snapshooting they can do a lot of damage.

The small bug list is simpler and you have a lot more flexibility. Run a Tyranid Prime or two, with minimal upgrades, inside 30 man squads of Horma- or Termagants. Supplement with at least 3 squads of Venomthropes (single man is ok). Consider adding large squads of Gargoyles and 3-5 Zoanthropes in a 'pod.

Tactics are charge! get shot ! use the survivors to eat anything that moves. Gargoyles are fast, and you can tail the rear of the squad back so they stay in Synapse and inside the cover bubble of the Venomthropes. Primes are bad, but they are the only way we have to hid synapse inside squads. In a small bug list you need ways to keep synapse alive, and the only things that I have found to work are Primes or lots of single model Zoanthrope squads (lots as in 6-12 models). I like to give the Primes lash whip/bone sword and rending claws, but that is expensive. Look into the Endless Swarm formation and consider building into it.

Small bug lists are weak vs heavy armor, but Tau don't have much of it, so it shouldn't give you a problem. If you are going to expand the small bug list into an all comers build, consider a flying Tyrant or two for killing tanks.

Some misc notes

Tervigons. I love Tervigons, but they are really hard to keep alive. I find the best way to run them is to take them as troops, get the electroshock grubs upgrade to give them a weapon, and deep strike them using a pod. They can spawn the turn they land, which is funny to surprise people with.

Mawlocks: The lack of a good way to control Mawlock scatter makes me not run them, although others swear by them. They are erratic, but can do a lot of damage when they work. Try them and see what you think.

Exocrines/Biovores: both good units, and the formation mentioned earlier is quiet good, but they suffer from being easy to kill. If you run them run them in the formation and bring venomthropes to keep them alive.

Venomthropes: Tyranids live and die on cover saves. Use Venomthropes and get good at getting the best cover save possible every time for every unit. Eventually you'll run into players who have learned to kill the Venomthrope first. Accept that they die, and that they give their lives to get the rest of the army 1-2 turns closer to the enemy. The cover bonus is to all models in a squad, because they give shrouded and shrouded is passed to all models. It also stacks with nightfight (stealth) and other cover saves. More squads is better than more models, as anything that can kill a Venomthrope (basically any ignores cover) can kill three Venomthropes and it lets you spread your deployment out and still have everybody covered. There is a forgeworld version that is strictly better, but the model and the book it comes in are expensive.

Sorry for the long post. I like nids