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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Knights are a bit of a thing.... They aren't really super rare, and the fluff in the Knight codex doesn't say anything like, "A Knightly house is made up of X Imperial Knights" the way that the SM codex talks about the 1000 people rule. As such, it is entirely possible to see an entire army of knights, as well as see one or two supporting another army.

A dude at my store has 19.... and is still planning on more (once Forgeworld releases their newly planned ones). I myself am going to stop at 5 or 6 (if I get a sixth one, it's getting the Thermal Cannon and will be an alternate sub to my written up list)

Ah... okay. I did some reading about their background and I know realise I was wrong to thing they were super-rare.

I think that it is easier to play fluffy armies without restrictions. For example, one of my armies is a Superheavy Tank Regiment and the other a detachment of Centurio Ordinatus engines.

The first is explicitly said to exist in the fluff, and the second is also said to explicitly exist in the fluff.

There should be an ability to play superheavy tank regiments and Centurio Ordinatus units, since they explicitly exist in the fluff.

Unfortunately, such super heavy regiments can easily lead to escalation of lists due to the difficulties some none elite/heavy vehicles have with dealing with such units. That being said, a super heavy detachment would not be against the system I proposed as it would be a special formation and as of such would be accommodated (although it might use all of the allocated "rarity points" you would have for that point level and thus any additional units would be general choices)

The issue with this idea of rarity is kinda useless when you put it in comparison with the 40k universe.

You say that plasma guns are rare, so should be limited. However, we can be fairly sure through most fluff sources that there are more plasma guns than Space Marines. Hell, in an under-average strength Imperial Guard Tank Regiment, there are about 100 Leman Russes, as much as an entire SM Battle Company. And there are more Tank Regiments than Battle Companies.

If you're using the fluff to justify rareness, I should only be seeing main Space Marine forces once every 100 games or so, and Grey Knight forces every 1000 games. Of course, they might show up with an allied detachment every so often, but a taskforce led by them should be extremely rare, if the fluff is anything to go by.

sturgeondtd wrote:
Unfortunately, such super heavy regiments can easily lead to escalation of lists due to the difficulties some none elite/heavy vehicles have with dealing with such units. That being said, a super heavy detachment would not be against the system I proposed as it would be a special formation and as of such would be accommodated (although it might use all of the allocated "rarity points" you would have for that point level and thus any additional units would be general choices)

More restrictions = less fluffy games. Less freedom = less fun. I fail to see any point in this idea.

Having restrictions doesn't have to reduce the fluff, you could say allowing allies or formations from multiple battle brothers gives too little restrictions and thus limiting fluff. The whole game is a balance between giving the players the freedom to define their own armies while at the same time having restrictions that would bring about balance to give all sides a chance to play fun games instead of WAAC armies. Sure this might mean you have to be somewhat creative with your army, but I believe that in the long run it would diversify lists as each player comes up with ways to define their warband.

I would rather just fix the whole army building system as a whole.

there is almost no point in a regular CAD anymore unless you are doing some min max thing (not even the case anymore) or because you dont have enough for a formation.

Now restricted war gear for a narrative campaign thing? im all in.

 Elbows wrote:
This was kinda/sorta how it worked in 2nd edition. You had wargear cards and in general if you didn't have a card, you couldn't have that wargear (codices had a majoirty of the simpler wargear). Super fancy or super powerful bits were kept on cards.

However, as you can imagine some people cheated the system and bought/traded as many of these cards as they could..

That's not actually how it worked at all. The number of cards included in the game were a hard limit on how many you could include. Just bringing more cards didn't increase that cap.

And the system didn't actually make a lot of sense. You were limited to only 1 of various 'rare' items, regardless of the size of your army.




Ultimately, unless there is only supposed to be a set, small number of the item in the universe (like specific wargear unique to a character), for me it goes more against the fluff to impose arbitrary limits on how many you can take. The fact that, say, grav weapons may be rarer than meltaguns doesn't preclude a force commander choosing to field all of them that he can get his hands on if the situation warrants it, or if through some confluence of fates they're all that he has to hand.

 insaniak wrote:

Ultimately, unless there is only supposed to be a set, small number of the item in the universe (like specific wargear unique to a character), for me it goes more against the fluff to impose arbitrary limits on how many you can take. The fact that, say, grav weapons may be rarer than meltaguns doesn't preclude a force commander choosing to field all of them that he can get his hands on if the situation warrants it, or if through some confluence of fates they're all that he has to hand.

Couldn't agree more. There are better ways to encourage list diversity then putting arbitrary limits on wargear choices.