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 Ghaz wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
The only interesting way of using it I can think of, is to summon more behemoth that would be normally allowed. But still, you'd have to make them fit in the points pool.

I'm not sure if RAW allows this. "An army" must have the correct organization, I don't see anywhere where is makes a distinction between the army on the table and your list.

So if I have a Battleline unit removed as casualties and I no longer have the required number of Battleline units do I automatically lose? You check your army composition during listbuilding, not during the game.

Where does it say that? It's safe to assume that it's ok to lose troops.
When you're adding to your army though, I'm not sure. I agree that the composition should only apply before the game, but I don't see it RAW.

Again, please point out where it says that you check your army composition during the game. Page and paragraph please. Why should we assume it's okay to lose models but not add them? Shouldn't it be treated consistently?

Asked the AoS facebook page and, fortunately, my worries are unfounded.

So long as your selected army contains the correct units, and you have the points, you can summon what you like!
We'll have an FAQ out alongside the book to clarify a few questions folks have had about the General's Handbook.

Thanks,
- Eddie

So are any units summoned as part of special abilites also taken out of the "summoning point pool"? For instance, the Orgrid Thaumaturge from Silver Tower has a spell that deals damage and then summons a unit of Horrors nearby - if I have no points left in the "summoning pool", can I still get those models?

No you wouldn't be able too.

Requizen wrote:
So are any units summoned as part of special abilites also taken out of the "summoning point pool"? For instance, the Orgrid Thaumaturge from Silver Tower has a spell that deals damage and then summons a unit of Horrors nearby - if I have no points left in the "summoning pool", can I still get those models?

From what it sounds like: No.

That's reasonable, just wanted clarification. Thanks!

Its really simple and clear in the rulebook: As soon as you put a unit on the table, you pay its points from your reinforcement pool. if you dont have enough points you cannot deploy the unit, the ability still counts as being used.

No it's not reasonable! Those abilities are pretty scarce in the game and wouldn't be overpowered. Units which can use such abilities should see their cost in points increased, not the ability more or less stripped away from them. It's restrictive gameplay mechanics, while a GAME, should be creative in its essence.

As I've said before, summoning is going to see at least a couple of rebalancing sweeps before the system is "locked in" so to speak.

 EnTyme wrote:
As I've said before, summoning is going to see at least a couple of rebalancing sweeps before the system is "locked in" so to speak.

You mean before the books are printed and available to read in stores? Oh wait...

Requizen wrote:
So are any units summoned as part of special abilites also taken out of the "summoning point pool"? For instance, the Orgrid Thaumaturge from Silver Tower has a spell that deals damage and then summons a unit of Horrors nearby - if I have no points left in the "summoning pool", can I still get those models?

I'm pretty sure he has no matched play points yet. So not a problem. But when he does I think the answer to your question will be no.

Someone told me that Sylvaneth Wyldwoods don't have points costs in the GHB. Is this true? If so, does this mean they're free to "summon"?

jSewell wrote:
Someone told me that Sylvaneth Wyldwoods don't have points costs in the GHB. Is this true? If so, does this mean they're free to "summon"?

Correct. They are free and have no points cost

Stroke wrote:

Requizen wrote:
So are any units summoned as part of special abilites also taken out of the "summoning point pool"? For instance, the Orgrid Thaumaturge from Silver Tower has a spell that deals damage and then summons a unit of Horrors nearby - if I have no points left in the "summoning pool", can I still get those models?

I'm pretty sure he has no matched play points yet. So not a problem. But when he does I think the answer to your question will be no.

As pointed out before, anything that brings a unit to the table costs its points. You do his damage then if you don't have points, you don't summon it.

The Only thing you "get back for free" is the Undead banners that replace d6 models to the unit. Even the one beastmen that kills a guy to summon a chaos spawn, costs the chaos spawns points from your pool.

New unit = Points

Haechi wrote:No it's not reasonable! Those abilities are pretty scarce in the game and wouldn't be overpowered. Units which can use such abilities should see their cost in points increased, not the ability more or less stripped away from them. It's restrictive gameplay mechanics, while a GAME, should be creative in its essence.

Bottle wrote:Yep sure, and if you want to play the old crooked Necromancer summoning up a horde of Zombies every turn, that's what Narrative and Open play is for in my opinion.

Boom!

If the toned down summoning rules of Matched rub you the wrong way, then Open seems like an awesome place for you to get your full bore summon on! There are absolutely plenty of folks who love the recursive summonageddon allowed by Open, and there are a huge number of other players extremely turned off by it. Thankfully we now have two takes on the mini-game that is AOS summoning! And I myself am absolutely thrilled that summoning has a limited presence in Matched, as IMO it almost purely detracts from the experience of pitting two pre-constructed armies up against each other. Bottle has repeatedly visited what summoning does bring to Matched, which are not insignificant, and its benefits are especially important in a game where everything is so easy to kill, particularly characters; however they are clearly of a different variety from the summonfest of Open. In Matched, summoning allows for added flexibility in force composition, protection for particularly valuable assets, and/or enhanced maneuverability and target selection (particularly in response to enemy deployment / movement). Probably more too. But certainly not the joy of massively expanding an army to overwhelm another force, whether the attraction there is a desire for epic scale, or to see most of a collection plopped onto the table without having to set them up first, or the feeling of fulfillment that comes when a summoning strategy comes together (this model summons this model summons this model summons this model, and so on). Open, one assumes, can still be a place to help realize that side of summoning, where summoning is less related to the risk-and-reward of a well-timed application of tactical assets, and more a furious dance of dice and model collections hitting the table.

As for Team Narrative, y'all probably handle summoning the best out of all these options, as that's the place where the mechanic can leave its gameyness behind and actually make sense as a narrative device. Frankly, the only summoning in action that I've been convinced needed to exist has been in Narrative games.

EDIT: And by summoning I mean all of the 'getting units for free' mechanics, though clearly I'm focused on recursive summon spam. To some extent it's a shame that things that generate spawn or vampire thralls cost points ... but I'm fine with that if things like the Chaos Lord's 'acquire a second army' ability do as well.

- Salvage