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Read the bottom of the second page in vehicles. It completely feths with your mind. Page 73 in the small version.

Honestly, the only times I've taken my DG against any real numbers of av14 vehicles I was fighting Necrons.

Between melta bombs, conversion beamer predators, and some heavy support squads I did okay. Though the Warhound tagging along for the big games did a lot of the heavy lifting.

 King Amroth wrote:
Read the bottom of the second page in vehicles. It completely feths with your mind. Page 73 in the small version.

I have the digital version so I can't tell where the pages are... is this what you meant? -

"Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons
Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a
vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons
that turn. A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of
course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots."

So as long as it isn't a blast or a template it can be shot as a Snap Shot, right?

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Read the bottom of the second page in vehicles. It completely feths with your mind. Page 73 in the small version.

I have the digital version so I can't tell where the pages are... is this what you meant? -

"Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons
Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a
vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons
that turn. A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of
course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots."

So as long as it isn't a blast or a template it can be shot as a Snap Shot, right?

Thats how i read it, not sure if its relentless or specifically being a vehicle but if you are you can snap shoot with ordance as long as it isnt a blast.

So my point stands. 2 Laser vindicators, as long as they haven't moved, can put out a number of shots that will average at least 1 solid hit, which considering the strength of the weapon and the weak armor of average fliers, should be enough to do some damage, either causing a crash and burn or an explosion outright. This increases in effectiveness as you add more vindicators. So a squadron of 3 vindicator laser destroyers, firing at full Ordnance 3, is likely to take down a flier easily. Especially if you add a character like the Iron Tenth's Orth, with his tank-hunting being added to the squadron.

I'm not saying it's better than the other options out there... just that it is a viable option and it works against aircraft in a pinch.

It depends on how badly you need those heavy support slots, I suppose. I feel that sticking 3 vindicators in a squad would work better than a lone venerator, if you needed the other heavy support slots for things like leviathans or something...

Honestly i think its not going to be as useful against flyers as you hope but that is more me being a pessimist because of them then getting a 4+ save. However as you say having 3 of them is going to do wonders as Anti Tank with the possibilty of killing a flyer in a pinch.

I suppose the anti-flyer thing is more of a case of them not being entirely useless vs a flying circus type list which might just otherwise take one look at a battery of ordnance weapons and just laugh. Plus its always good to have options!

Thats how i read it, not sure if its relentless or specifically being a vehicle but if you are you can snap shoot with ordance as long as it isnt a blast.

Being a vehicle, I guess. The comparison (which you see every so often) is Laser Destroyer Array Rapiers - which are artillery, not vehicles, so couldn't snap fire their ordnance weapons.

locarno24 wrote:

Thats how i read it, not sure if its relentless or specifically being a vehicle but if you are you can snap shoot with ordance as long as it isnt a blast.

Being a vehicle, I guess. The comparison (which you see every so often) is Laser Destroyer Array Rapiers - which are artillery, not vehicles, so couldn't snap fire their ordnance weapons.

Yes the exception seems to be clearly attached to vehicles.

So last night I was fortune enough to face off against likeAsir's army of screaming madmen and massed AV14 for a nice big 3000 point game. Playing against the Militia and Cults list is always a bit of a curveball in a game of clashing power armour-in this case hordes of chaff with zealot and rending close combat attacks backed by 3 Squadrons of Leman Russ MBT's a Baneblade and a Gorgon are a good test of any Legion force's capacity at both extremes of anti-personnel and anti tank. The Iron Warriors of the 3rd Grand Battalion passed this test with flying colours. They proved themselves the breakers of men with multiple batteries of Ironfire enhanced Quad Mortars and frag missile volleying out from her Siege Tyrants and Havocs like it was the 4th of July. But now for on topic part of the game now that I have a good bit of practical to match with my theoretical......

Units that I found particularly effective against AV14:
-Vindicator Laser Destroyers. They work, just like people say they did! Parked a squadron of 2 in ruins across from my opponents baneblade and had a long gunbrawl across the course of the game.
-Contemptor Mortis with Kheres Assault Cannons. Didn't think this guy would work out particularly well in this fight- I have rarely been this wrong about a unit. Stalking through the ruins this chap took down a Leman Russ Demolisher head on, before finishing off the Baneblade. I always underestimate how effective fishing for crits can be on a high volume weapon, now I will probably overestimate it for a good long while!
-Terminators with Powerfists/Chainfists. Punched a Gorgon to death killing 4 out of 5 guys inside it, probably my highlight point of the match for insane apocalyptic damage dealt by a 5 man squad(didn't hurt that the guys inside were all of his scoring units!). The regular powerfist is probably less worthwhile in a Legion battle where most AV14 targets have it on every armour facing, chainfist will still work more than adequately for a good old bit of tankfisting action
-Outflanking Rhino with Multimelta is worth an honorable mention. It doesn't work vs Armoured Ceramite AV14 but an outflanking S8 AP1 shot can be nice against a lot of tanks side armour, in this case it killed a leman russ vanquisher the turn it came in. Very much worth the 50 points added onto a Veteran Squad.

Well done dave! I'll give you a game next, see how you do vs my 9 rhino, Spartan and phobos!

 King Amroth wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

Thats how i read it, not sure if its relentless or specifically being a vehicle but if you are you can snap shoot with ordance as long as it isnt a blast.

Being a vehicle, I guess. The comparison (which you see every so often) is Laser Destroyer Array Rapiers - which are artillery, not vehicles, so couldn't snap fire their ordnance weapons.

Yes the exception seems to be clearly attached to vehicles.

The draft FAQ clarifies this:
Q: Are there ever any circumstances that allow a vehicle with an Ordnance weapon the ability to fire it as Snap Shots? Say the weapon in question is not of a type (Blast or Template) that may not be fired as a Snap Shot, but another circumstance requires Snap Shots (the vehicle is under the effect of Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned). Can it fire Ordnance weapons?
A: Yes. Provided the weapon in question is not a Blast or Template weapon (or otherwise cannot be fired as Snap Shots) a vehicle can fire an Ordnance weapon as Snap Shots (such as when Crew Stunned).

 Formosa wrote:
Well done dave! I'll give you a game next, see how you do vs my 9 rhino, Spartan and phobos!

Thankyou, likeAsir's horde lists are always a bit of a nightmare to face! I'll look forwards to facing off against your I Legion forces, the last time I played against you my complete inability to handle your Spartan was another motivation for starting this thread(Also made me give up on the lightning Primaris once I saw what even the slightest bit of anti-air in a list does to it.). 9 Rhinos, blimey I don't even begin to know if I've got enough guns to take all of them out fast enough whilst nailing out a Spartan and a Landraider!

 wormark wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

Thats how i read it, not sure if its relentless or specifically being a vehicle but if you are you can snap shoot with ordance as long as it isnt a blast.

Being a vehicle, I guess. The comparison (which you see every so often) is Laser Destroyer Array Rapiers - which are artillery, not vehicles, so couldn't snap fire their ordnance weapons.

Yes the exception seems to be clearly attached to vehicles.

The draft FAQ clarifies this:
Q: Are there ever any circumstances that allow a vehicle with an Ordnance weapon the ability to fire it as Snap Shots? Say the weapon in question is not of a type (Blast or Template) that may not be fired as a Snap Shot, but another circumstance requires Snap Shots (the vehicle is under the effect of Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned). Can it fire Ordnance weapons?
A: Yes. Provided the weapon in question is not a Blast or Template weapon (or otherwise cannot be fired as Snap Shots) a vehicle can fire an Ordnance weapon as Snap Shots (such as when Crew Stunned).

Thanks for providing that, the wording in the rulebook seemed pretty clear to me but its nice to have it answered as a question in the FAQ.