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I think I need to treat the EFs that same way I treat the Nurglings in a Tallyband: cheap objective corruptors. The only difference is that EFs move faster and can do damage if needed.
After playing Tallyband, and seeing how they've lacked some 'punch' I totally agree with you... that was why I've taken a look at the EF.
The fact that they're faster, and COULD join up in a unit is simply another tactical strategy.
Which leads me to ask: What is better for the Herald of the Warp host? Paradox or Grimiore?
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If you bring Fatey, definitely Grimiore. Without Fatey? I'm inclined to go Paradox...
The paradox is better to take in the WarpFlame host, whereas the grimoire is better in a CAD. Why? Because the Warpflame herald does flickering fire at +1 S, so he'll always be the one doing it. Better to have a 5 dice guarentee on it if needed.
I don't think you can split the EFlamers off from a unit they've joined without moving them.
An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it.
So the IC has to move in order to leave. If the IC remains stationary he remains part of the unit and the other members of the unit cannot move out of coherency with him.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: I don't think you can split the EFlamers off from a unit they've joined without moving them.
An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it.
So the IC has to move in order to leave. If the IC remains stationary he remains part of the unit and the other members of the unit cannot move out of coherency with him.
I noticed this in another thread I started to discuss this. Someone point out the "Pivot on the spot" rule on pg 18.
I'll need to read that, but it sounds like you may use that to actively "move" out of coherency, yet count as stationary for shooting.
But you would still need to move the unit away for the IC's first.
So hypothetically it should work like this:
a) Unit of Furies with EFs declares it is moving
b) Begin by moving all Furies away form the EFs
c) When you are ready to move each EF to maintain coherency with their unit, you may declare they are leaving the unit
d) Pivot each EF on the spot to actively "move" them out of coherency
e) Now they count as stationary for shooting heavy weapons
I still have to check the wording for "Pivot on the spot", but the above sounds right for now.
Warpflame Host 9x [Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch ····Herald of Tzeentch [D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward, Disc of Tzeentch, Exalted Locus of Conjuration, Psyker Level 2 ]
+ Command (300pts) +
Daemon Lord ····Kairos Fateweaver
+ Auxiliary (40pts) +
Daemon Flock ····Chaos Furies [5x Furies (30pts)] ········Daemon of Tzeentch [Daemon of Tzeentch]
I could join up the EF into 2 or 3 units, one with Furies and other to screamers depending on the strategy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/16 02:52:19
Couple questions on the list: what do the Khornedogs accomplish? 5 dogs with no characters won't do much, as the Tzeentch flamers can't join them. Also, what does the second Exalted gift on the other TZerald do? One is the Grimoire im sure, but Id reccomend paradox over an exalted reward.
jifel wrote: Couple questions on the list: what do the Khornedogs accomplish? 5 dogs with no characters won't do much, as the Tzeentch flamers can't join them.
Distraction right now... until I get another unit of screamers.
Also, what does the second Exalted gift on the other TZerald do? One is the Grimoire im sure, but Id reccomend paradox over an exalted reward.
I'm very "eh" on the paradox.
I use the 2nd exalt for portaglyph to generate more pink horrors. It's essentially my warpcharge battery.
jifel wrote: Couple questions on the list: what do the Khornedogs accomplish? 5 dogs with no characters won't do much, as the Tzeentch flamers can't join them.
Distraction right now... until I get another unit of screamers.
Also, what does the second Exalted gift on the other TZerald do? One is the Grimoire im sure, but Id reccomend paradox over an exalted reward.
I'm very "eh" on the paradox.
I use the 2nd exalt for portaglyph to generate more pink horrors. It's essentially my warpcharge battery.
How can you be "eh" on the paradox? It's basically 2-3 warp charges a turn for only 25 points
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/16 04:10:01
Right, Paradox is 5 points cheaper than an Exalted reward and can GAURANTEE a successful power (like summoning 10 Horrors). Portalglyph is only a 50/50 change to summon only D6 Horrors per turn and can be destroyed (only 1 HP). I can understand having to choose between Grimoire & Paradox, but Paradox is much better than Portalglyph.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/16 13:15:19
Yes. There is no possible combination of 5 dice that Paradox cannot turn into a successful casting of Summoning or Incursion (or possession if you really need it) If you roll 5 failed 4+ dice, flip for 5 successes 1 Success & 4 fails flip to become 1 fail & 4 successes 2 Successes & 3 fails flip to become 2 fails & 3 successes 3+ Successes don't need to be flipped.
Paradox saves you 2 dice on average (since you need 7 dice to normally cast a WC3 power) and it lowers that chance of Perils.
With Portalglyph it becomes too tempting to use FW re-roll if you don't roll that 4+ to get a new unit (which will be so small that the enemy could kill it with 1 of their units). 10 guaranteed Horrors is more annoying to deal with and may require multiple enemy units to kill them.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/09/16 13:42:32
········Warpflame Host 9 x [Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch] ············Herald of Tzeentch [D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward, Disc of Tzeentch , Exalted Locus of Conjuration , Psyker Level 3]
3x librarian (one is Libby) 4x Grav-Centurion --above in pod
1x squad with meltas ---above in pod
2x scouts
---free standing pod
1x flyer (the guppy looking one with assault cannon and missles?)
Riptide Wing (2x unit, 2x unit and 1x unit)
I tabled him by turn 4.
Some thoughts: --TzKnight with Grimore + Cursed Earth is sick and I've found it really easy to keep it powered up. --Void Shield Generator is the bomb... great way to neuter alpha strikes. --Holy gak Riptide throws down some dakka! Even with Hailstorm (sp? double shots?). TzKnight weathered all the Tau shooting for 4 turns before getting destroyed... which is good because. --my EFlamers were able to get in range to be an effective nuisance. --Karios and one of my TzHerald rolled possesion. In 3 turns I was able to turn THREE EFlamers into a DThister, NurglePrince and TzPrince (models that I had on hand). I'd prefer more DThirster and was surprised how easy it was to be able to spam them out like that. --I really, REALLY need to learn how to play faster with summoning and all the powers... the game took just shy over 3 hours.
Question for ya'll: is there an order of operation when dealing with Grimore, Cursed Earth, warpstorm+1 inv buff... with respect to Banishment? We played it like whomever's turn it is, the player's turn determines the order. So, on my turn my TzKnight had 2++/3++, but on opponent's turn he requested the order of the powers such that the TzKnight had 3++/4++... did we play that right? Or, is it always ALWAYS the best save possible?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 03:54:00
········Warpflame Host 9 x [Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch]
············Herald of Tzeentch [D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward, Disc of Tzeentch , Exalted Locus of Conjuration , Psyker Level 3]
3x librarian (one is Libby)
4x Grav-Centurion
--above in pod
1x squad with meltas
---above in pod
2x scouts
---free standing pod
1x flyer (the guppy looking one with assault cannon and missles?)
Riptide Wing (2x unit, 2x unit and 1x unit)
I tabled him by turn 4.
Some thoughts:
--TzKnight with Grimore + Cursed Earth is sick and I've found it really easy to keep it powered up.
--Void Shield Generator is the bomb... great way to neuter alpha strikes.
--Holy gak Riptide throws down some dakka! Even with Hailstorm (sp? double shots?). TzKnight weathered all the Tau shooting for 4 turns before getting destroyed... which is good because.
--my EFlamers were able to get in range to be an effective nuisance.
--Karios and one of my TzHerald rolled possesion. In 3 turns I was able to turn THREE EFlamers into a DThister, NurglePrince and TzPrince (models that I had on hand). I'd prefer more DThirster and was surprised how easy it was to be able to spam them out like that.
--I really, REALLY need to learn how to play faster with summoning and all the powers... the game took just shy over 3 hours.
Question for ya'll: is there an order of operation when dealing with Grimore, Cursed Earth, warpstorm+1 inv buff... with respect to Banishment? We played it like whomever's turn it is, the player's turn determines the order. So, on my turn my TzKnight had 2++/3++, but on opponent's turn he requested the order of the powers such that the TzKnight had 3++/4++... did we play that right? Or, is it always ALWAYS the best save possible?
The invul modifiers are continuously in effect so you continue to apply them to modifiers. You don't only check the multiplier math once. This is just like normal math.
Also Possession specifically removes the Psyker who casts it from play, no other model can be used for it (so you couldn't remove Exalted Flamers for it). Also you can't summon Daemon Princes at all with possession
········Warpflame Host 9 x [Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch]
············Herald of Tzeentch [D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward, Disc of Tzeentch , Exalted Locus of Conjuration , Psyker Level 3]
3x librarian (one is Libby)
4x Grav-Centurion
--above in pod
1x squad with meltas
---above in pod
2x scouts
---free standing pod
1x flyer (the guppy looking one with assault cannon and missles?)
Riptide Wing (2x unit, 2x unit and 1x unit)
I tabled him by turn 4.
Some thoughts:
--TzKnight with Grimore + Cursed Earth is sick and I've found it really easy to keep it powered up.
--Void Shield Generator is the bomb... great way to neuter alpha strikes.
--Holy gak Riptide throws down some dakka! Even with Hailstorm (sp? double shots?). TzKnight weathered all the Tau shooting for 4 turns before getting destroyed... which is good because.
--my EFlamers were able to get in range to be an effective nuisance.
--Karios and one of my TzHerald rolled possesion. In 3 turns I was able to turn THREE EFlamers into a DThister, NurglePrince and TzPrince (models that I had on hand). I'd prefer more DThirster and was surprised how easy it was to be able to spam them out like that.
--I really, REALLY need to learn how to play faster with summoning and all the powers... the game took just shy over 3 hours.
Question for ya'll: is there an order of operation when dealing with Grimore, Cursed Earth, warpstorm+1 inv buff... with respect to Banishment? We played it like whomever's turn it is, the player's turn determines the order. So, on my turn my TzKnight had 2++/3++, but on opponent's turn he requested the order of the powers such that the TzKnight had 3++/4++... did we play that right? Or, is it always ALWAYS the best save possible?
The invul modifiers are continuously in effect so you continue to apply them to modifiers. You don't only check the multiplier math once. This is just like normal math.
Is that supported the rules or HYWPI? Just curious...
Also Possession specifically removes the Psyker who casts it from play, no other model can be used for it (so you couldn't remove Exalted Flamers for it). Also you can't summon Daemon Princes at all with possession
Oops... messed that one up bad. I don't even know why I thought I can do that on independent characters...
MagicJuggler wrote: Man how I wish Daemonic Instability didn't prevent daemons from joining other units.
Exalted Flamers in Plague Zombie units would be the new hotness.
I'm a daemon player and can agree with not join other units, if nothing else putting a cyclopia cabal with a Screamerstar would just be unfair all the way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/06 02:44:59
