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 Backspacehacker wrote:
Yeah on double 6s, the hemlock only needs like 2 good shots which it gets the turn it comes it to blast large chunks outta your army.

It wont matter if you shoot it down at taht point because it earned its points back because it just blasted a command squad off the board, or a squad of devastators.

Yeah... no, you have no idea how terrible that flyer is.

You make it jink and it doesn't work anymore, you go in cover and has a very hard time hurting anything with -1 on the D table and no ignores cover on it's guns. It's a flyer and so you either need reserve manipulation or risk not using 185 points until the penultimate stages of the game and it's -2 leadership debuff only affects MODELS with 12" rather than units, so pretty much impossible to use.

Quite frankly, it's one of rare Eldar units that quite frankly is completely useless unless you are fighting nothing but Taunar Supremacy suits.



However, back to the topic at hand - I would gladly give up any and all access to D weapons if we had ways of outside of D and stomp to remove 2+ rerollables, 3+ or better FNP's, invisibility or the "Wolf star"

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Yeah on double 6s, the hemlock only needs like 2 good shots which it gets the turn it comes it to blast large chunks outta your army.

It wont matter if you shoot it down at taht point because it earned its points back because it just blasted a command squad off the board, or a squad of devastators.

What are you referring to when you mention "double sixes?" The hemlock's weapons can't roll a "6" on the d-table. If the die comes up a six, you get the 2-5 result. If the die comes up a one or two, you get the 1 result. And how is it blasting "large chunks" out of the enemy army? It's firing two small blasts, so you won't be hitting a large number of models unless your opponent bunches up a lot of infantry for you, which is more their fault than the hemlock's. Similarly, you could potentially hit multiple vehicles, but only if they bunch up next to one another. Even vehicles in a squadron can space themselves 4" apart from one another meaning you'll only ever hit multiple vehicles if your scatter goes really wide and/or your opponent bunched up his vehicles for you. Which again, isn't a problem with the hemlock. It's a problem with a guy who bunches up his models.

So realistically, you aren't taking "large chunks" out of your opponent's army; you're trying to kill one thing. The more expensive the target, the more efficient the hemlock is. If we're talking about taking out "large chunks" of points, that's more doable, but the hemlock isn't great at that either. What's the hemlock supposed to be devastating against? A rhino? Sure. Big deal. A venom? Okay, but it will get jinks and invuls against the shots. A land raider? There are plenty of ways to kill a land raider for equal or fewer points and more reliably than a hemlock as well. An MC? That MC is going to ignore half the hits you land by having a toe in cover. How about an imperial knight? Oh wait, the imperial knight will also ignore half your hits with its ion shield, and then take an average of 2 hull points from the hemlock's fire.

The command squad you mention should either be in a transport, in combat, or in cover, all of which will neuter the hemlock's firepower. Devastators can seriously mitigate the number of hits by spreading out and can also benefit from cover. They will then proceed to shoot at the hemlock and either kill it, shake it, or make it jink.

For 185 points, I'm fairly certain you can get a squad of sternguard in a drop pod, probably with combi-melta or combi-plas who will be far more effective against devastators, command squads, and a wide variety of other things. They're even better at killing that imperial knight mentioned earlier if you give them melta because they can deepstrike and disembark from the drop pod in such a way as to hit multiple armor facings thus ignoring the shield with some of their shots.

Please go on. I wish to hear more about how a 185 point flyer being half-decent (not really) at killing expensive power armored models makes it OP.

Well said Wyldhunt!

If he had said the Warp Hunter then he'd certainly have a point but I feel we are moving away from the topic at hand. I still feel the D weapons should deal more damage to wound based models to combat the every increasing amount of MC and GMC based armies out there.