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I suppose I forgot to remention this part. Everyone in the combat has a 4+ cover save for being in the thick of things. Does that help?

 Lance845 wrote:
It's all a house rule anyway, but just curious. Why would it be any worse to drop a flame template or a large blast over a melee that would be auto hitting every model under it, friend or foe?

Because unless you are playing IG you would fire into the combat aiming at enemy combatants and not just blindly unleash your weapons.

Lance845
I suppose I forgot to remention this part. Everyone in the combat has a 4+ cover save for being in the thick of things. Does that help?

Not one bit... cause of ignore cover weapons.... the Ap on those weps are still enough to take out most CC oriented armies. Orks will die by the dozens cause no cover or armour. IG would be the same, so would be tyranids and eldar units, and daemons, and scouts, and kroot,and necrons.

in fact anything tht isnt power armour would be suseptible to this and tht's not Counting AP 3-2 no cover weaponry. Which you can get pretty easily

There is a reason why people cant atk in close combat... cause there are weapons out there in the shooting that would make mincemeat of a close combat with them not suffeing practically any losses (Tau would abuse this soo bad. and so would eldar and necrons. SM land raider redeemers would be gods among the battlefield. Tzeench chariots would just be godly aswell... in fact anything with AP 3 and ignore cover would be the death of any army. and with a walker keeping the group there you have practically made an entire fighting system completely useless, so no.. i would reccomend keeping CC untouchable cause of easily noticable reasons)

Remember, in a game that is supposed to show the brutallity of close combat and range in a taime of unending war.. the range has clearly got the upper hand, no need to make it even more broken

Or instead of targeting a unit in combat you just target the combat and wounds are randomly allocated to the units in the combat. I think that was a special rule for a three way game scenario in the old 5th Ed rulebook

mchammadad wrote:

Lance845
I suppose I forgot to remention this part. Everyone in the combat has a 4+ cover save for being in the thick of things. Does that help?

Not one bit... cause of ignore cover weapons.... the Ap on those weps are still enough to take out most CC oriented armies. Orks will die by the dozens cause no cover or armour. IG would be the same, so would be tyranids and eldar units, and daemons, and scouts, and kroot,and necrons.

in fact anything tht isnt power armour would be suseptible to this and tht's not Counting AP 3-2 no cover weaponry. Which you can get pretty easily

There is a reason why people cant atk in close combat... cause there are weapons out there in the shooting that would make mincemeat of a close combat with them not suffeing practically any losses (Tau would abuse this soo bad. and so would eldar and necrons. SM land raider redeemers would be gods among the battlefield. Tzeench chariots would just be godly aswell... in fact anything with AP 3 and ignore cover would be the death of any army. and with a walker keeping the group there you have practically made an entire fighting system completely useless, so no.. i would reccomend keeping CC untouchable cause of easily noticable reasons)

Remember, in a game that is supposed to show the brutallity of close combat and range in a taime of unending war.. the range has clearly got the upper hand, no need to make it even more broken

I want to make sure I am understanding your points here correctly.

1) Do you think I am saying that a unit IN the combat can shoot their guns? This is wrong. The units locked in combat can only use the weapons they can use now. What I am proposing is units that are not locked in combat can target units that are locked in combat during their shooting phase.

2) What is the actual difference between a unit locked in combat being shot with a gun and that same unit moving up the field being shot with the same gun? It's not like those units are not susceptible to that weapon normally. Granting them a cover save and a chance to wound the wrong unit is better then not having those things. I just don't see how this some how ruins those units that are already being attacked with those weapons. Please try to explain.

I want to make sure I am understanding your points here correctly.

1) Do you think I am saying that a unit IN the combat can shoot their guns? This is wrong. The units locked in combat can only use the weapons they can use now. What I am proposing is units that are not locked in combat can target units that are locked in combat during their shooting phase.

2) What is the actual difference between a unit locked in combat being shot with a gun and that same unit moving up the field being shot with the same gun? It's not like those units are not susceptible to that weapon normally. Granting them a cover save and a chance to wound the wrong unit is better then not having those things. I just don't see how this some how ruins those units that are already being attacked with those weapons. Please try to explain.

1) never said anything about units shooting in CC. That would look awesome but at the same time would be pretty silly.

2) Getting shot at from range means you only have to worry about one type of combat. i.e Shooting, In CC with this however you now have to worry about 2 types of combat (CC and shooting) and thats also not counting out the fact that you cant actively fight back against the unit that is going to do the most damage (I.e the shooting)

Lets have an example:

Unit 1 (30 Mob of ork boys) is in CC with unit 2 (8 unit of Tactical Marines) Orks did their CC but rolled poorly but didnt force a rout with the Tacticals.

SM player has a squad of Sternguard veterans (Or a command squad, or another normal tac squad) and decides that this is perfect time to destroy the whole lot of boys without resorting to another CC round.

So he shoots into combat. Now imagine he has say a flamer each squad (5 in the command)

He starts shooting.

Vets use dragonfire bolts. Cause ignore cover, why not
For command they uses their 5 flamers
His tactical squad uses a flamer and say frag missile in the squad

Not here lies the problem.

2 out of those 3 squads can almost guarantee to destroy those squads. Even with cover saves they cant do anything about the amount of ignore cover

So whole squad of boys is eliminated and the tactical squad walks out without a scratch.

Enter Tau. who have markerlights and Ignore cover as standard. Oh look at that, same results

Like i said, unless the army is heavy on the armour save it'll reach the same conclusion. This is why shooting into combat. No matter how much people want it would not only not work. But you'll be stacking the deck even more against CC based armies.

And considering the fact that most CC based armies dont usually have access to high armour saves, u'll basically be wasting entire mobs to take out one unit. Not to mention that if you dont eliminate the unit on the first combat, your unit is practically gone.

That's why