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The Darkspear, who were a small jungle island tribe that nearly got murdered by Murlocs, killed by Kultiras, betrayed by a witch doctor, then started being executed in the streets by Garrosh, somehow managed to be the face of the Horde. But not really, because the Garrison was all Orc architecture, and the default guards are orcs.

Forsaken make sense, at least, as their numbers should be bolstered by the Gilnean campaign (they still don't hold it though) and Southshore.

I'm pretty sure Mekkatorque kills Thermaplugg during the Cut Short short story, so the reason the dungeon exists is as you said earlier - game play.

I'm pretty sure the way the Night Elves held Ashenvale for so long was the fact they had killed all of their enemies previously, and they patrolled the border with small groups, and if anyone tripped the wire, they came in force. Like in the Warcraft 3 Orc campaign, where the small patrol found Grom, failed to take him out, and over the ridge came Cenarius to lay down the smack down.

They should give us advance notice anyways, so people can budget, but then how would they hype? Or that's their line of logic, at least.

How ironic, it took World of Warcraft to derail a Sisters thread when it's Sisters that usually derail an thread.

Davor wrote:
How ironic, it took World of Warcraft to derail a Sisters thread when it's Sisters that usually derail an thread.

So, what class do you play?

Team HumanPaladin.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Darkspear, who were a small jungle island tribe that nearly got murdered by Murlocs, killed by Kultiras, betrayed by a witch doctor, then started being executed in the streets by Garrosh, somehow managed to be the face of the Horde. But not really, because the Garrison was all Orc architecture, and the default guards are orcs.

Forsaken make sense, at least, as their numbers should be bolstered by the Gilnean campaign (they still don't hold it though) and Southshore.

I'm pretty sure Mekkatorque kills Thermaplugg during the Cut Short short story, so the reason the dungeon exists is as you said earlier - game play.

I'm pretty sure the way the Night Elves held Ashenvale for so long was the fact they had killed all of their enemies previously, and they patrolled the border with small groups, and if anyone tripped the wire, they came in force. Like in the Warcraft 3 Orc campaign, where the small patrol found Grom, failed to take him out, and over the ridge came Cenarius to lay down the smack down.

Erm, Kalimdor is a continent. And Warcraft tech is very bad.

Imagine patrolling territory that covers most of North America when you have no surveillance tech better than your troops' eyes and ears.

Are you envisioning millions of Night Elf soldiers? I sure hope so.

They should give us advance notice anyways, so people can budget, but then how would they hype? Or that's their line of logic, at least.

In this case the hype would come from actual confirmation of plastic Sisters of Battle being imminent.

I doubt most of the sister players that had waited for plastics are still even around; it's at the point Dark Eldar were at. They could do, and have recently actually with Magnus, done hype better and with a relaunch like sisters would need they could easily make quite a bit from it.

But GW mishandling sisters would be nothing new.

 n0t_u wrote:
I doubt most of the sister players that had waited for plastics are still even around; it's at the point Dark Eldar were at. They could do, and have recently actually with Magnus, done hype better and with a relaunch like sisters would need they could easily make quite a bit from it.

But GW mishandling sisters would be nothing new.

Uhh, I'm still around. And I intend on buying the plastics if/when they come out.

 Pouncey wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I doubt most of the sister players that had waited for plastics are still even around; it's at the point Dark Eldar were at. They could do, and have recently actually with Magnus, done hype better and with a relaunch like sisters would need they could easily make quite a bit from it.

But GW mishandling sisters would be nothing new.

Uhh, I'm still around. And I intend on buying the plastics if/when they come out.

I was still around too, but I decided to trade them off with this announcement after waiting so long. Too little too late for me.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Darkspear, who were a small jungle island tribe that nearly got murdered by Murlocs, killed by Kultiras, betrayed by a witch doctor, then started being executed in the streets by Garrosh, somehow managed to be the face of the Horde. But not really, because the Garrison was all Orc architecture, and the default guards are orcs.

Forsaken make sense, at least, as their numbers should be bolstered by the Gilnean campaign (they still don't hold it though) and Southshore.

I'm pretty sure Mekkatorque kills Thermaplugg during the Cut Short short story, so the reason the dungeon exists is as you said earlier - game play.

I'm pretty sure the way the Night Elves held Ashenvale for so long was the fact they had killed all of their enemies previously, and they patrolled the border with small groups, and if anyone tripped the wire, they came in force. Like in the Warcraft 3 Orc campaign, where the small patrol found Grom, failed to take him out, and over the ridge came Cenarius to lay down the smack down.

Erm, Kalimdor is a continent. And Warcraft tech is very bad.

Imagine patrolling territory that covers most of North America when you have no surveillance tech better than your troops' eyes and ears.

Are you envisioning millions of Night Elf soldiers? I sure hope so.

They should give us advance notice anyways, so people can budget, but then how would they hype? Or that's their line of logic, at least.

In this case the hype would come from actual confirmation of plastic Sisters of Battle being imminent.

Uh, post sundering the Night Elves only really controlled Ashenvale and Azshara up (Azshara being practically abandoned), their fortresses in Silithus and Feralas, and the peak of Stonetalon. The rest of Kalimdor was Centaur, Trolls, Tauren, Quillboar, harpies, etc. All battling it out.

Still a good chunk of land, but not as much as you are making it seem.

 Manchu wrote:
lolwut the theme of SoB is get beaten so thr SM look tougher?

nooooooope

It's unfortunate, but I think there is some truth to that. The Ecclesiarchy are even less sympathetic and relatable than the Space Marines and Inquisition, and tend to wind up occupying the 'enemy within' narrative space in stories about the Imperium. (Oddly, the Mechanicus are often treated the same, but don't seem to generate the same level of player bitterness.)

I can understand your frustration, but we probably shouldn't be surprised if the story plays out as 'Ecclesiarchy fail owing to their fanatical dogmatism, after they have died tragically but futilely, the comparatively more reasonable Astartes and Inquisition clean up the mess.'. It's happened in dozens of stories before, and it does so because it's one of the more logical endpoints of stories constructed from 40k's themes.

Pouncey, CrazyTerran, this is a 40K forum, not a WoW forum. If you want to discuss WoW at length, please take it to a WoW forum or to PM. I'm as disinterested in WoW as a nerd can possibly be.

I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

I wonder what differences we will see form the IA dex and the possible SoB dex, besides more troop choices possibly.

BTW, in the artwork showing Celestine, are those new Seraphim behind her? I can't quite make them out but they look to have the same organ jet pack as Celestines bodyguards?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vash108 wrote:
I wonder what differences we will see form the IA dex and the possible SoB dex, besides more troop choices possibly.

Troops are fine. Its the fact that the army lacks more specialized unit types that aren't just variations of normal battle sisters. They also need more tanks and heavy armor. Plus a flyer since most armies have been given a flyer.

 Pouncey wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
*plays a human in wow and space marines in 40k*

A proud Boringville citizen.

I wasn't going to comment, but Stormwind Humans and Space Marines are my most hated factions in their relative franchises, and for the same reason - they hog the limelight too damned much.

What? ewww no kirin tor are by far the worst human organization objectivly, but this is 40k not wow lol

 jreilly89 wrote:
I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

Yes, people tend to stop complaining when you finally give them what they've been wanting for a decade. Funny how that works, isn't it?

And of course there will still be complaints. Has any army's fans ever been completely happy with their latest version of stuff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Troops are fine. Its the fact that the army lacks more specialized unit types that aren't just variations of normal battle sisters.

You mean like Repentia and Battle Conclaves and Priests and Penitent Engines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Fishface wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
lolwut the theme of SoB is get beaten so thr SM look tougher?

nooooooope

It's unfortunate, but I think there is some truth to that. The Ecclesiarchy are even less sympathetic and relatable than the Space Marines and Inquisition, and tend to wind up occupying the 'enemy within' narrative space in stories about the Imperium. (Oddly, the Mechanicus are often treated the same, but don't seem to generate the same level of player bitterness.)

I can understand your frustration, but we probably shouldn't be surprised if the story plays out as 'Ecclesiarchy fail owing to their fanatical dogmatism, after they have died tragically but futilely, the comparatively more reasonable Astartes and Inquisition clean up the mess.'. It's happened in dozens of stories before, and it does so because it's one of the more logical endpoints of stories constructed from 40k's themes.

They don't actually characterize the Astartes and Inquisition as "reasonable" do they?

I mean, compared to the Sisters, maybe, but that's like calling arctic water "warm compared to liquid nitrogen."

This thread exploded into WoW and I was not even here? For shame.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Lord Fishface wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
lolwut the theme of SoB is get beaten so thr SM look tougher.

nooooooope

It's unfortunate, but I think there is some truth to that. The Ecclesiarchy are even less sympathetic and relatable than the Space Marines and Inquisition, and tend to wind up occupying the 'enemy within' narrative space in stories about the Imperium. (Oddly, the Mechanicus are often treated the same, but don't seem to generate the same level of player bitterness.)

I can understand your frustration, but we probably shouldn't be surprised if the story plays out as 'Ecclesiarchy fail owing to their fanatical dogmatism, after they have died tragically but futilely, the comparatively more reasonable Astartes and Inquisition clean up the mess.'. It's happened in dozens of stories before, and it does so because it's one of the more logical endpoints of stories constructed from 40k's themes.

They don't actually characterize the Astartes and Inquisition as "reasonable" do they?

I mean, compared to the Sisters, maybe, but that's like calling arctic water "warm compared to liquid nitrogen."

Within the confines of 40k's deliberately ridiculous setting, yes, it's a much easier task to read (and indeed to write) space-spies and space-soldiers (i.e. the Inquisition and Astartes) as relatable, sympathetic human protagonists than it is to do so with the Ecclesiarchy, who might as well be ISIS in space.

 Pouncey wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:


That is fine many of us 40k players are also RPG player's s but what do you like about the game that is 40k?

It is the only game in existence with anything like Sisters of Battle. That's literally the only reason I didn't play something else and drop 40k entirely - there's nothing like Sisters of Battle anywhere else in tabletop gaming. Or in video games for that matter.

We might be getting somewhere.
If I understand it correctly you don't like.

- The 40k game mechanics / rules.
- The 40k Fluff.
- The Sisters of battle Fluff
- Sisters of battle rules.
and you would love to convert them all into furries, right ?

So what do you exactly like about the sisters of battle that ties you down to the 40k game.
You don't have to be a 40k player to play with 40k models you know. Many of my RPG playing friends use lots of GW models and none of consider themselves to be 40k / AoS players.

 Pouncey wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

Yes, people tend to stop complaining when you finally give them what they've been wanting for a decade. Funny how that works, isn't it?

And of course there will still be complaints. Has any army's fans ever been completely happy with their latest version of stuff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Troops are fine. Its the fact that the army lacks more specialized unit types that aren't just variations of normal battle sisters.

You mean like Repentia and Battle Conclaves and Priests and Penitent Engines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Fishface wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
lolwut the theme of SoB is get beaten so thr SM look tougher?

nooooooope

It's unfortunate, but I think there is some truth to that. The Ecclesiarchy are even less sympathetic and relatable than the Space Marines and Inquisition, and tend to wind up occupying the 'enemy within' narrative space in stories about the Imperium. (Oddly, the Mechanicus are often treated the same, but don't seem to generate the same level of player bitterness.)

I can understand your frustration, but we probably shouldn't be surprised if the story plays out as 'Ecclesiarchy fail owing to their fanatical dogmatism, after they have died tragically but futilely, the comparatively more reasonable Astartes and Inquisition clean up the mess.'. It's happened in dozens of stories before, and it does so because it's one of the more logical endpoints of stories constructed from 40k's themes.

They don't actually characterize the Astartes and Inquisition as "reasonable" do they?

I mean, compared to the Sisters, maybe, but that's like calling arctic water "warm compared to liquid nitrogen."

Yeah only one of those is actually a Sister of Battle unit and none of them are tanks or fliers. They're also units I probably won't take unless they're redesigned to fit the look and theme of the army. They're an army of Joan of Arcs in power armor, that doesn't mesh with freaky torture machines which are basically a hold over from the Witch Hunters dex. I don't care what buffs he confers why would I be collecting an all female army to put Joe from accounts in the squad?

I think they might reimagine Celestians and have an a dual kit for Seraphim. Throw in a dual kit for the Exorcist and you're probably fine. But I would like the option to do a pure SoB army without recourse to the Witch Hunters stuff.

Agree with Pouncey that it makes no sense to say, the Sisters fail because they are too dogmatic so that's why the SM have to save the day. I know it varies by Chapter, but the SM are generally as hidebound as the rest of the IoM when it comes to myopic devotion to doctrine.

 Pouncey wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

Yes, people tend to stop complaining when you finally give them what they've been wanting for a decade. Funny how that works, isn't it?

And of course there will still be complaints. Has any army's fans ever been completely happy with their latest version of stuff?

Except they don't. There's already people complaining in the Sisters' rumors thread and there's people complaining about the new Traitor Legion rules. I think it's less about giving people what they want and more people just like to hate on GW.

I finally understood the design of the Seraphim jump packs when I saw Celestine's bodyguards - they're supposed to resemble angel wings.

Rules-wise, GW has kind of painted itself into a corner with Imperial Agents. If they change the rule for any of the units in that book, it makes them look like idiots. About all they can do at this point is create formations and detachments that give good bonuses. Mind you, they could go a long way with that.

I suppose they might also release some new units, but what they'd do with the theme they have is beyond me. Maybe have a cultist-type unit for Troops, and a flyer of some sort. I'd say they should port over the Avenger Strike Fighter, but so far GW proper taking over a model from Forge World is kind of a rare occurrence.

 Pouncey wrote:


I'm suggesting that Sisters of Battle in particular be given an exception due to the circumstances of the last two decades of general neglect and mistreatment.

3-4 months after finally getting an update, Wood Elves' most scared place was destroyed in End Times: Nagash IIRC.

Brettonia players similarly waited for an update, but instead, Nagash killed one of their major special characters without needing to strike a blow AFAIK.

Crazyterran wrote:

Davor wrote:
How ironic, it took World of Warcraft to derail a Sisters thread when it's Sisters that usually derail an thread.

So, what class do you play?

Team HumanPaladin.

Never played the game.

jreilly89 wrote:I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

They will complain because a new codex is not coming out and they are again relegated to a story book, the first being what Shield of Baal. Also there will be no other new releases and why are Sisters of Battle not getting a new line only one mini at a time.

Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:Pouncey, CrazyTerran, this is a 40K forum, not a WoW forum. If you want to discuss WoW at length, please take it to a WoW forum or to PM. I'm as disinterested in WoW as a nerd can possibly be.

Again this is funny. A lot of Sister (and Chaos) players do this all the time. I find it funny it's finally being done in a dedicated Sister thread. How ironic it is being done but not with a GW product. At least Sister (and Chaos) players do it when it's 40K related.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I can't tell if I'm excited or aggravated by this. On the one hand, plastc Sisters is cool, the models look good, and the SoB fans will finally shut up because they're not being squatted. On the other hand, there will probably still be something in the release for people to complain about.

Yes, people tend to stop complaining when you finally give them what they've been wanting for a decade. Funny how that works, isn't it?

And of course there will still be complaints. Has any army's fans ever been completely happy with their latest version of stuff?

Except they don't. There's already people complaining in the Sisters' rumors thread and there's people complaining about the new Traitor Legion rules. I think it's less about giving people what they want and more people just like to hate on GW.

I'll just leave you with this thought.

Your army is not Sisters of Battle. Your army spent the past 20 years getting new models on a semi-regular basis, with new units being added with every new Codex. Your models were sold on the shelves of every GW store around the world. Your standard infantry squads did not cost over one hundred dollars each to buy.

Sisters of Battle are getting their first plastic models during their army's 20th anniversary. The last time they got any new models was in 2003, during the third edition of the BRB. They lost units since then. The models we did have were gradually taken out of production and never replaced with anything. Our models stopped being stocked on GW shelves entirely, along with most LGS, so we had to order them from the Internet if we wanted to expand our armies in any way. In 2006, a full decade ago, Jes Goodwin, a model designer for GW, told people at a Games Day that plastic Sisters of Battle models were "nearly complete, just some kinks to work out with the robes".

When you saw things like Imperial Knights, Militarum Tempestus, Mechanicum, Warhammer 30k, and Skitaari came out, I have no doubts you saw them as fun additions to the game that enhanced the flavor.

When I saw those things come out, what I saw was GW inventing entirely new factions with full model ranges while my own 20 year metal models still weren't being updated.

If your army had been treated like Sisters of Battle had, you would be just as damned negative as Sisters of Battle players are, and exactly as unwilling to trust GW. Just imagine how pissed you'd be if your army had been using only the models they had in 3rd edition and earlier, up until the present day.

You would be just as pissed as we've been. You simply don't understand because you've never tried to understand. You've never imagined how you might feel in the Sisters of Battle's place. You've never cared to try to understand where that hate comes from. It is completely justified.

I don't understand because I see a faction get new things and then immediately complain after months of whining about never getting anything.

 Pouncey wrote:


I'll just leave you with this thought.

Your army is not Sisters of Battle. Your army spent the past 20 years getting new models on a semi-regular basis, with new units being added with every new Codex. Your models were sold on the shelves of every GW store around the world. Your standard infantry squads did not cost over one hundred dollars each to buy.

Sisters of Battle are getting their first plastic models during their army's 20th anniversary. The last time they got any new models was in 2003, during the third edition of the BRB. They lost units since then. The models we did have were gradually taken out of production and never replaced with anything. Our models stopped being stocked on GW shelves entirely, along with most LGS, so we had to order them from the Internet if we wanted to expand our armies in any way. In 2006, a full decade ago, Jes Goodwin, a model designer for GW, told people at a Games Day that plastic Sisters of Battle models were "nearly complete, just some kinks to work out with the robes".

When you saw things like Imperial Knights, Militarum Tempestus, Mechanicum, Warhammer 30k, and Skitaari came out, I have no doubts you saw them as fun additions to the game that enhanced the flavor.

When I saw those things come out, what I saw was GW inventing entirely new factions with full model ranges while my own 20 year metal models still weren't being updated.

If your army had been treated like Sisters of Battle had, you would be just as damned negative as Sisters of Battle players are, and exactly as unwilling to trust GW. Just imagine how pissed you'd be if your army had been using only the models they had in 3rd edition and earlier, up until the present day.

You would be just as pissed as we've been. You simply don't understand because you've never tried to understand. You've never imagined how you might feel in the Sisters of Battle's place. You've never cared to try to understand where that hate comes from. It is completely justified.

I would have kept with them for as long as I could, or perhaps moved to another army. I would have adapted and likely not have complained much. There's a limit to the usefulness of complaints, I'm in no position to demand anything, and GW certainly doesn't owe me jack.

"Some mutha****** always want to ice skate up a hill."

pm713 wrote:
I don't understand because I see a faction get new things and then immediately complain after months of whining about never getting anything.

We've gotten two special characters thus far. That's ALL.

We haven't gotten a single squad kit yet, only Celestine and a resin Canoness.

Battle Sisters Squads? Haven't seen em yet.
Dominions? Nope.
Retributors? Uh-uh.
Seraphim? Nope, they dual-wield pistols and Celestine's guards have power swords.
Exorcist in all-plastic? Not a sign of it yet.
Penitent Engines? Nope.
Repentia? Nope.
Literally anything whatsoever than two Special Characters? No.

You may assume that those will follow. Frankly, I agree, but Sisters of Battle players have had to deal with the reality for over 10 years that simply assuming that GW will update the models does not mean it will actually happen. So we simply don't get excited for things we ASSUME will come anymore.

And that hatred will absolutely NOT vanish at the first plastic kit to ever see the light of day.

Games Workshop's handling of this update has also been terrible. Their "announcement" a few months ago was a brief snippet after the closing logos of a video about Magnus' model, and frankly it came off as a joke rather than a serious announcement. No models were shown. No actual evidence was given that the kits were coming at all. They seem to fail to recognize that Sisters of Battle are a special case, that their mistreatment of the army should demand a higher-than-standard level of information being given out. They don't seem to realize how bad their conduct's been in the eyes of players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


I'll just leave you with this thought.

Your army is not Sisters of Battle. Your army spent the past 20 years getting new models on a semi-regular basis, with new units being added with every new Codex. Your models were sold on the shelves of every GW store around the world. Your standard infantry squads did not cost over one hundred dollars each to buy.

Sisters of Battle are getting their first plastic models during their army's 20th anniversary. The last time they got any new models was in 2003, during the third edition of the BRB. They lost units since then. The models we did have were gradually taken out of production and never replaced with anything. Our models stopped being stocked on GW shelves entirely, along with most LGS, so we had to order them from the Internet if we wanted to expand our armies in any way. In 2006, a full decade ago, Jes Goodwin, a model designer for GW, told people at a Games Day that plastic Sisters of Battle models were "nearly complete, just some kinks to work out with the robes".

When you saw things like Imperial Knights, Militarum Tempestus, Mechanicum, Warhammer 30k, and Skitaari came out, I have no doubts you saw them as fun additions to the game that enhanced the flavor.

When I saw those things come out, what I saw was GW inventing entirely new factions with full model ranges while my own 20 year metal models still weren't being updated.

If your army had been treated like Sisters of Battle had, you would be just as damned negative as Sisters of Battle players are, and exactly as unwilling to trust GW. Just imagine how pissed you'd be if your army had been using only the models they had in 3rd edition and earlier, up until the present day.

You would be just as pissed as we've been. You simply don't understand because you've never tried to understand. You've never imagined how you might feel in the Sisters of Battle's place. You've never cared to try to understand where that hate comes from. It is completely justified.

I would have kept with them for as long as I could, or perhaps moved to another army. I would have adapted and likely not have complained much. There's a limit to the usefulness of complaints, I'm in no position to demand anything, and GW certainly doesn't owe me jack.

"Some mutha****** always want to ice skate up a hill."

I don't like any other armies.

New Celestine, new Canoness, TWO new Detachments, new and improved rules or at worst copy and pasted rules with the exception of Celestine who will get rules with the shiny new model.

Hatred just makes me think you're way too invested in this emotionally. Everyone gets the nasty end of the stick by GW.

I don't see why Sisters need to be treated differently from any other army. GW has handled this just fine - it was transparently obvious that their tease of plastic Sisters in the Magnus video was explicit confirmation, not a joke.

Given that the one bit of art we've seen featuring Celestine at Cadia depicts a massive host of Seraphim behind her, it seems clear that Sisters will indeed have a major presence during the battle.

I'd also be shocked if we didn't see a wider range of plastic kits. It's clear that the stultifying influence of GW's old management has given way to an environment where fleshing out deserving factions is now seen as a way to both please the fans and profit. We've seen plastic AdMech, whose fans have been waiting longer than anyone , and now Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults as well. I don't see why GW would go to the trouble of working up plastic Seraphim for the Celestine kit and then call it a day there.

I'm sure AdMech fans would have been exceedingly grateful to be stuck with an extremely limited range of models for the last 15 years, as opposed to nothing at all.