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 Rolsheen wrote:
Well Forgeworld resin is toxic as well, but that's not what this post is about.

No, FW resin is non toxic once cured, the danger from all resin from a hobby point of view is fine particulates getting inhaled while cleaning and assembling the kits, which is an issue regardless of what constitutes the fine particulate.

I maintain that the typical hobbyist won't ever be exposed to sufficient quantities over a lifetime to pose an increased risk, but the possibility is legitimate.

But this is OT, I quite agree.

 LemanRuse wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Oh my bad I skimmed over that and saw the second mention where it seemed more figurative.

It's been well recorded that Chinese manufacturers have used toxic fillers in things from toothpaste, to children's toys, to dog food. There's nothing figurative about that. It's a fact. Google it.

I'm well aware, it's even been in baby formula a few times. I meant the way it was written.

 LemanRuse wrote:
It really is a douche move to be cool with knowingly buying and playing with counterfeit recast models. I get it, they are cheaper and they look just like the real thing, but only losers do that, and karma is a b*tch. Enjoy your knockoff gucci handbags, and know that knockoffs often contain toxic fillers. The crappy part is when you get tired of your army and sell it on ebay, and some poor soul buys your toxic, counterfeit bs, thinking it is the real deal. Real classy!

I left my original FW Storm Eagle, unpainted, in a Battlefoam case for a few years and it melted into the foam. There is absolutely no other way any sort of chemical reaction could have gotten going than the FW resin sweating. Please tell me how originals are less toxic than counterfeits.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LemanRuse wrote:
It really is a douche move to be cool with knowingly buying and playing with counterfeit recast models. I get it, they are cheaper and they look just like the real thing, but only losers do that, and karma is a b*tch. Enjoy your knockoff gucci handbags, and know that knockoffs often contain toxic fillers. The crappy part is when you get tired of your army and sell it on ebay, and some poor soul buys your toxic, counterfeit bs, thinking it is the real deal. Real classy!

I left my original FW Storm Eagle, unpainted, in a Battlefoam case for a few years and it melted into the foam. There is absolutely no other way any sort of chemical reaction could have gotten going than the FW resin sweating. Please tell me how originals are less toxic than counterfeits.

That's the first I have ever heard of something like that happening. Of course, I don't use forgeworld. But I doubt that is a common occurrence. And a chemical reaction to foam doesn't automatically mean that it is toxic to humans when touched.

As to your question, there are substances and chemicals that can be used as fillers that are poisonous and carcinogenic to the touch. I doubt forgeworld purposefully used dangerous compounds to manufacture your model that melted, whereas it has been well documented that many Chinese manufacturers use toxic and carcinogenic fillers in their products just to save a few pennies.

That's all I'm saying.

Not sure why people in this thread feel the need to defend the honor of Chinese counterfeiters as if they would never in a million years even consider using potentially toxic materials in their products just to save some pennies when it has been well documented that many Chinese manufacturers do just that. Heck, there have been cases where carcinogenic and toxic substances have been used in baby formula, toys, and dog food. Do you really think they would think twice about adding them to counterfeit toy soldiers?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:

 LemanRuse wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Oh my bad I skimmed over that and saw the second mention where it seemed more figurative.

It's been well recorded that Chinese manufacturers have used toxic fillers in things from toothpaste, to children's toys, to dog food. There's nothing figurative about that. It's a fact. Google it.

I'm well aware, it's even been in baby formula a few times. I meant the way it was written.

No worries. When I said "toxic fillers", I was definitely being literal.

Toxicity is scale, everything short of water, has a toxicity relative to water. Just because a chemical reaction occurs between the model and carrying case foam does not mean it is toxic. Certain alcohols and acetates used as mold release will melt foam and they have very low toxicity. Many of these acetates naturally occur in fruit while alcohol is similarly distilled from sugars.

The greatest dangers from working with resin isn't toxicity but the type of damage any fine dust, such as those you create when sanding or cutting resin, can impart to your respiratory system. The dust will settle in your lungs causing micro tears that depending on the dust particles effect your lungs healing process and can promote cancerous growth.

Not sure why people in this thread feel the need to defend the honor of Chinese counterfeiters as if they would never in a million years even consider using potentially toxic materials in their products just to save some pennies when it has been well documented that many Chinese manufacturers do just that. Heck, there have been cases where carcinogenic and toxic substances have been used in baby formula, toys, and dog food. Do you really think they would think twice about adding them to counterfeit toy soldiers?

Maybe because people believe there are enough legitimate issues with buying recasts without bringing in "toxicity" scares like a shrieking housewife?

The greatest dangers from working with resin isn't toxicity but the type of damage any fine dust, such as those you create when sanding or cutting resin, can impart to your respiratory system. The dust will settle in your lungs causing micro tears that depending on the dust particles effect your lungs healing process and can promote cancerous growth.

Pretty much this, the mechanical damage is going to be far and away the worst issue with resin. It's why you always need to be careful working with any resin (whether it's "toxic" or not)

 ScarletRose wrote:

Not sure why people in this thread feel the need to defend the honor of Chinese counterfeiters as if they would never in a million years even consider using potentially toxic materials in their products just to save some pennies when it has been well documented that many Chinese manufacturers do just that. Heck, there have been cases where carcinogenic and toxic substances have been used in baby formula, toys, and dog food. Do you really think they would think twice about adding them to counterfeit toy soldiers?

Maybe because people believe there are enough legitimate issues with buying recasts without bringing in "toxicity" scares like a shrieking housewife?

Shrieking housewife?

C'mon, man, hyperbole much, and why get so snarky?

All I did was bring up another potential issue beyond the ethics and legality of knowingly buying counterfeit items. I'm not trying to scare people. People are going to do what they want. It's not like I am losing any money when people buy counterfeit items.

But looking at China's track record, it amazes me that you could be so flippant about dismissing the possibility that there could be toxic or carcinogenic fillers in the counterfeit products.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rolsheen wrote:
Well Forgeworld resin is toxic as well, but that's not what this post is about.

Back on topic, I personally don't have a problem playing games against people who don't use GW models, as long as I can understand what I am playing against.

I also understand why a GW store wouldn't want people doing that.

I'd say they have a right for this kind of rules within their store.

I'm also fairly certain the negative stories about GW stores are if not always, then around 99% exaggerated. Has to do with the general mindset about the company, which is going for the better at the moment.

Never had a real life negative experience in one, and neither have my friends. I've seen stories about the clerks making a person cry, but personally I think that's bullgak. Or just a person who cries very easily.

 Runic wrote:
I'd say they have a right for this kind of rules within their store.

I'm also fairly certain the negative stories about GW stores are if not always, then around 99% exaggerated. Has to do with the general mindset about the company, which is going for the better at the moment.

Never had a real life negative experience in one, and neither have my friends. I've seen stories about the clerks making a person cry, but personally I think that's bullgak. Or just a person who cries very easily.

I agree. It's only logical that they would not want to display a competitor's products.

Also, I have never had a bad experience in a GW store either. The staff has always been friendly, respectful and helpful. It's actually pretty cool dealing with people who are passionate about the hobby.

The only negatives I have ever encountered is the minimal playing space, but that was understandable because they were in a mall, where space is at a premium. I don't have a GW store near me now, but I definitely had a great time there when I did.

But looking at China's track record, it amazes me that you could be so flippant about dismissing the possibility that there could be toxic or carcinogenic fillers in the counterfeit products.

I mean sure, some guy on this forum told you he paid money to get his knockoff tested, so they all must be pure.

Maybe I just react badly to that sort of radical skepticism that seems so pervasive in the world these days ("I didn't do the scientific tests with instruments I made myself therefore all facts are invalid!").

But as has been pointed out by someone a little less snarky the burden is on the positive claim and no proof has been presented so far. "It's China" isn't proof of anything considering the vast majority of good people buy are made there.

But I'm wasting my typing on this, and it's an aside to an aside so it's far from the topic.