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Table wrote:
Its already hard enough getting FW haters to accept little things like Plague Hulks. Then they release the Tau titan and gives the anti forgeworld people another round of ammo. Here is hoping GW takes further steps to pull in FW and legitimize it while screening for stuff like this. Having two balance teams cannot end well.

Thing is most forge world stuff is fine, but occasionally (and I won't guess as to intention) they release something that is insanely overpowered. That isn't the main reason to dislike forge world, the main reason is that they have a D2C sales model, which is hurts your FLGS. This is the reason why so many stores are sketch on allowing forgeworld at store tournaments, It's like eating McDonald's in a Burger King after asking for a water cup you keep filling with soda. Even GW stores don't like forge world, and forcing GW stores to allow forge world is fixing the wrong part of the problem. The fact that FW is occasionally terribad at balancing stuff is just icing on the cake. Betrayal at calth and Burning of prospero are FW offering the olive branch to FLGS, because up to that point a lot of stores hated 30k because it was all over their demographics and they didn't get a dime from it.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Poor Blood Angels...
Wonder if Martel will be happy to be proved right?

It's been like this for months and months. I didn't need this as proof.

 Verviedi wrote:
An official corporate policy that forces all GW stores to remove all restrictions on forgeworld would help.
Seeing models actively restricted plants the seed of hatred in many people's minds, and many peopld start the hobby in GW stores. People seeing more forgeworld on the table would go a long way towards legitimizing it.

Yup. Good post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
An official corporate policy that forces all GW stores to remove all restrictions on forgeworld would help.
Seeing models actively restricted plants the seed of hatred in many people's minds, and many peopld start the hobby in GW stores. People seeing more forgeworld on the table would go a long way towards legitimizing it.

I agree but the problem is a lot of the forgeworld stuff is insanely good. Until GW and by extension forgeworld starts actually balancing things instead of putting out these ridiculously overpowered models to try and sell them it will not matter because either you ban everything or allow everything, since if you ban only certain things people will complain why is that legal but this isn't.

Also you cannot stop people from saying they don't want to play with certain things. Removing all restrictions on Forge World may not actually do anything other than turn some people away from the game when they see these gigantic expensive and overpowering models all over the place because it's free reign.

right now the issue is that the balance scale of Forge World is all over the place with some things being acceptable and some being ridiculously expensive and at the same time ridiculously overpowered.

Thats why GW needs to absorb forgeworld and get one team on the job of rule writing. Until then they are crippling the FW brand needlessly. I can only comment on FW as it relates to my faction. Which is CSM. There is nothing broken in IA :13 outside of titans. Yes it gives far better options than the base CSM codex but that is point since the base codex is one of the weakest in the game. Things like the GBS come with built in draw backs such as rear armor value of 10 and + 2 to the pen hit charts. To give rending ammo to tanks you pay more than the gun you are buying the ammo for. Then you have the Tau Titan which is broken beyond repair. FW needs to be absorbed if they cant turn a profit in a way other than releasing broken models and rules.

ANd yes, you cant stop people from not wanting to play forgeworld. But at the same time its akin to saying you wont play against eldar, or wraithknights since FW is 100% legal according to GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

Table wrote:
Its already hard enough getting FW haters to accept little things like Plague Hulks. Then they release the Tau titan and gives the anti forgeworld people another round of ammo. Here is hoping GW takes further steps to pull in FW and legitimize it while screening for stuff like this. Having two balance teams cannot end well.

Thing is most forge world stuff is fine, but occasionally (and I won't guess as to intention) they release something that is insanely overpowered. That isn't the main reason to dislike forge world, the main reason is that they have a D2C sales model, which is hurts your FLGS. This is the reason why so many stores are sketch on allowing forgeworld at store tournaments, It's like eating McDonald's in a Burger King after asking for a water cup you keep filling with soda. Even GW stores don't like forge world, and forcing GW stores to allow forge world is fixing the wrong part of the problem. The fact that FW is occasionally terribad at balancing stuff is just icing on the cake. Betrayal at calth and Burning of prospero are FW offering the olive branch to FLGS, because up to that point a lot of stores hated 30k because it was all over their demographics and they didn't get a dime from it.

Good point I have never thought of.

Wayniac wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
An official corporate policy that forces all GW stores to remove all restrictions on forgeworld would help.
Seeing models actively restricted plants the seed of hatred in many people's minds, and many peopld start the hobby in GW stores. People seeing more forgeworld on the table would go a long way towards legitimizing it.

"I agree but the problem is a lot of the forgeworld stuff is insanely good. Until GW and by extension forgeworld starts actually balancing things instead of putting out these ridiculously overpowered models to try and sell them it will not matter because either you ban everything or allow everything, since if you ban only certain things people will complain why is that legal but this isn't.

Also you cannot stop people from saying they don't want to play with certain things. Removing all restrictions on Forge World may not actually do anything other than turn some people away from the game when they see these gigantic expensive and overpowering models all over the place because it's free reign.

right now the issue is that the balance scale of Forge World is all over the place with some things being acceptable and some being ridiculously expensive and at the same time ridiculously overpowered.

Thats why GW needs to absorb forgeworld and get one team on the job of rule writing. Until then they are crippling the FW brand needlessly. I can only comment on FW as it relates to my faction. Which is CSM. There is nothing broken in IA :13 outside of titans. Yes it gives far better options than the base CSM codex but that is point since the base codex is one of the weakest in the game. Things like the GBS come with built in draw backs such as rear armor value of 10 and + 2 to the pen hit charts. To give rending ammo to tanks you pay more than the gun you are buying the ammo for. Then you have the Tau Titan which is broken beyond repair. FW needs to be absorbed if they cant turn a profit in a way other than releasing broken models and rules.

ANd yes, you cant stop people from not wanting to play forgeworld. But at the same time its akin to saying you wont play against eldar, or wraithknights since FW is 100% legal according to GW.

Anybody know where the Allies Matrix falls on this table, like do the results just reflect the primary detachment, or are allied forces just not counted?

I think ITC says it's whatever you spent the most points on is your "faction", so for a war convo it's a three faction primary detachment, but you spend most of your points on ad mech. This can lead to some silliness but seems the fairest way to do it in the ally matrix era. To Gws credit, most list are heavily one faction, with maybe a splash of others, with two notable exceptions. Dark angels is super friends (white scars + Dark angels + Space wolves) and Ad mech is mostly war convo (Skitarii + Ad Mech + Imperial knight)..