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Made in us
Clousseau




The main complaints in my area:

* its too slow. One game of armada = 3 games of xwing.
* you have to paint the fighters
* its not as combo-based as xwing, which turns a lot of the guys off (they like xwing for being combo based)
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
It may feel restrictive, but it's just because the concept of the game is to come to it with a plan. It all hints towards being a vastly different game where you need to plan ahead, like Chess (at which I've never been particularly good, I'm afraid). It also curbs their efficacy while you're on the learning curve.


X-Wing has a similar issue I've noticed, where until players get comfortable with the templates and can visualize them on the table, the dials can feel frustrating to get ships to go where they want them to. Armada has a similar restriction, but its a lot harder to get over because it takes several games to understand the rhythm of commands.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

 auticus wrote:
The main complaints in my area:

* its too slow. One game of armada = 3 games of xwing.
* you have to paint the fighters
* its not as combo-based as xwing, which turns a lot of the guys off (they like xwing for being combo based)


Having just one-shot a fresh Gladiator in one salvo sure feels like combos are possible. I kept piling on the extra dice from this upgrade and that admiral...

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Yeah, in teaching the game to my regular opponent, the information overload of all the upgrade combos was an issue, so I don't know how there's a lack of combos.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




For me it comes down to a number of factors:

1. Timing. Armada was released just as X-Wing really started to take off where I am. It was also, not coincidentally, around the same time X-Wing had received enough waves of releases to give good variety and provide an interesting experience due to that variety. At the same time there weren't so many expansions that it seemed too daunting for new players. In comparison, Armada seemed like a game that you'd have to wait too long for the same variety and richness of experience.

2. Cost. The starter set's too expensive compared to X-Wing and arguably provides even less satisfying an experience out of the box than X-Wing does. The expansions are also slightly more expensive.

3. Clumsy. My overriding first impression of Armada was that the game was unwieldy compared to X-Wing. The movement tool, the fiddly messing about with fighter squadrons being manipulated all the time to track damage and initiative and some of the other mechanics made the game feel a little messy and imprecise. Combined with the longer playing time this was a turn-off for me and others. You can play 3 games of X-Wing in the same time you can play 1 Armada game.

4. The ships. There are maybe 3 iconic capital ship in the SW universe: ISD, Corvette, Nebulon B. Yes, I'm aware the VSD and ISD are technically different ships, and the Mon Cal cruiser is in the OT but really those 3 are the main, iconic ships most people will be familiar with. There simply aren't enough recognisable capital ships to really (Forgive the pun) capitalise on the Star Wars brand. The ship scale is less of an issue for me but I know it is something that annoys others.

Most of the issues for me and my gaming group basically came down to X-Wing being preferable for the above reasons. Most of us could afford to start Armada but justifying the cost and splitting up our gaming time between more systems (most of us already also play 40k or other systems) it didn't seem worthwhile.

I'm not saying we were right about these issues, or that they are even still issues,, but those were our initial thoughts and first impressions count.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




While I don't have anyone that plays X wing or Armada in my area, I use to collect X wing. Why I never got into Armada for collecting was the price.

For a few bucks more I was able to get Dropfleet Commander. I just felt I got more value in Dropfleet than I did in Armada.

I don't know why. Armada just felt like something what GW would do and I didn't want to get into it. It just didn't seem to me that it had the same value as X wing. I could very well be wrong, but if that is the impression I got, FFG should have done a better job in showing it.

I look at it now, and I still balk. I don't know the prices just seem expensive. Maybe it's the magic price of under $20 it seems worth it, but once over $20, you really think of if you should buy it or not. While yes you are getting less plastic with X wing, compared to Armada ships, again under $20 doesn't seem much of a "loss" if it didn't "work out" for what ever reason, but over $20 I don't want to take the chance just like with GW product, if that makes sense.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

It's a different value, that's for sure. It'll scratch a different itch. Some of the mechanics are cool, though, like the difference dice at different ranges.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

You have to shop around. Due to last sales at Miniature Market and Amazon, I paid 50 bucks for the starter, and have never paid more than 30 dollars for a big ship, and that was for the Imperial Star Destroyer that retails for twice that. Every other ship, including the two largest Mon Calamari Rebel ships, were $25 or under. So far I have really only bought 1 of each of the two-ship flotillas at their 20 dollar retail price at my LGS. Everything else has been for at least 40% off. It's a personal rule I have held myself to, so I could justify getting into another game.

The other thing to remember is that each Armada ship comes with two variant stat cards, which are pretty different from each other: different stats, different dice they are rolling, differing numbers and types of upgrade slots, rather than X-Wing ships having a special Ace rule and/or different pilot rating, and sometimes different upgrades.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AegisGrimm wrote:
You have to shop around. Due to last sales at Miniature Market and Amazon, I paid 50 bucks for the starter, and have never paid more than 30 dollars for a big ship, and that was for the Imperial Star Destroyer that retails for twice that. Every other ship, including the two largest Mon Calamari Rebel ships, were $25 or under. So far I have really only bought 1 of each of the two-ship flotillas at their 20 dollar retail price at my LGS. Everything else has been for at least 40% off. It's a personal rule I have held myself to, so I could justify getting into another game.


While I'm glad you got those types of deals, FFG/Asmodee's hostile stance on discounts both for B&M and online stores means that customes are less likely to get discounts compared to competitors. It's a bit of a double whammy in that the MSRP/RRP is already relatively high to begin with and the chance for bringing it down significantly is lower.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Though arguably that should affect X-Wing just as bad as Armada, at least as far as the X-Wing Large ships go, anyway (I am not a fan of all the Asmodee garbage tactics going on, it's like the really bad GW days). I do wholly admit that small ships in X-Wing is easier to impulse buy at retail prices, but Armada is far from dead like some say. It can't be with the Arquittens from Wave 5 being sold out at so many places.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/28 16:35:05




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Though arguably that should affect X-Wing just as bad as Armada, at least as far as the X-Wing Large ships go, anyway (I am not a fan of all the Asmodee garbage tactics going on, it's like the really bad GW days). I do wholly admit that small ships in X-Wing is easier to impulse buy at retail prices, but Armada is far from dead like some say. It can't be with the Arquittens from Wave 5 being sold out at so many places.


I agree that it affects X-wing to a lesser extent and also that Armada is far from dead. I'd even go on to say that it's the single most popular capital spaceship game out there right now at least from my myopic view (just seeing people play games on tables at the FLGS during my rare visits over the past two years)... but it's not the "smash hit" that xwing was and I suspect that FFG hoped it would be. For various reasons already listed in the thread (cost being the single most common one), it's just a "solid success" that while not even close to xwing IMO still far exceeds Firestorm Armada, Starfleet Battles, Halo Fleet Battles, etc. The only starship game I've seen played more in the past 5 years (so going back obviously before it came out) is Star Trek Attack Wing. I haven't been to any gaming store since DFC hit retail which is why it is conspicuously absent from my comparisons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/28 19:53:25


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I agree. People have stated lots of times on the FFG boards that Armada is dead and gone, but usually it's opposed by opinions that it's outselling all other capitol ship games, and like I stated above, I really only think that Dropfleet has a chance of matching it, and even then they play completely different, and Dropfleet needs to overcome so e bad press.

Woe betide any game that is being judged as dead if it's not a successful as X-Wing! I don't think even FFG expected it to be SUCH a smash hit, even when being a Star Wars game is practically an auto-sell. X-Wing and Armada are kind of surreal in that you can even buy them in big bookstores.

Hell, there's a much-wanted ship that MiniatureMarket just got a restock of, and their numbers (assuming they are accurate) show they have sold 20 of them in less than a day.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/28 23:00:30




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Which ship would that be, by the way?

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 AegisGrimm wrote:
I don't think even FFG expected it to be SUCH a smash hit, even when being a Star Wars game is practically an auto-sell. X-Wing and Armada are kind of surreal in that you can even buy them in big bookstores.


Given how little room they gave themselves to work with in the base game's combat engine.... no, I'm sure they didn't. Every couple of years they scramble a bit to create design space (which is why ships are currently all getting base special rules via free title upgrades) and its actually really impressive how well they've kept up given where the game started.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Which ship would that be, by the way?


The Imperial Light Cruiser (the Arquittens from Rebels). Literally every online resource I would normally use (even Amazon) and my LGS is sold out of them. Miniature Market got enough in stock that there was 104 of them on Friday night, and according to their tracker, by Sunday morning when I put in an order, they were supposedly down to under 60. But who knows, as they suddenly have over 100 again so maybe they got another restock?

Still it's an awesome little ship, with an Admiral card most Imperial players love that gives new life to things like sluggish Victory Star Destroyers.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

I've been toying with a multiple Kittens list. I'm not usually an Imperial player. But with Minister Tua on a VSD, it becomes a solid anchor.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Heh, my father is my gaming partner for this game (gets me a break from my kids), and he definiely appreciated Jerjerrod in a 2x Victory, 1x Impstar list. It really hurts when they can turn like Corvettes!



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




DFW area Texas - Rarely

Interesting thread.

Here are some of my thoughts, as a long time gamer of many many ship games (anyone remember starfire?) on why armada is "not as popular" as xwing.

1 - its not a "fleet game" - my first complaint about armada was that I wanted ...well...an "armada". its just a few ships, and to me that was a turn off.

2 - Perceived price - the starter was a lot more than the xwing starter, and each ship after that was more than an xwing ship.

3 - Mix and availability of ships - not a lot of ships out in the beginning.

4 - Fighters not painted - I paint tons of minis - one of the benefits of the FFG games was I didn't have to paint them.

5 - Already have a star wars game - between the old mini game, xwing, rpg's etc...did I need another star wars game?

those were some things that stopped me from "biting" into armada (still looking for a fleet game I like).

HOWEVER.....

once I actually played - I have not played XWing since.
(still pick up recent minis - as use them in RPG games).

Armada is amazing - absolutely love it.
love the command dial and movement rules - it really makes you think...differently.

Now a few points about my above statements.

1 - Fleet game - while you can now have a large diversity of ships in armada, both large and small - its getting "close" to what many gamers call a "fleet game" - and for me, its close enough. The fact its star wars and a good game makes up for it (still miss starfire...).

2 - Perceived Price
sure, the base xwing game was "complete" out of the box...but it was..deceptive....sure, you could play with just the starter box...but did you? how many people didn't go out and drop cash on more fighters.....the incremental cost per each is lower ...but they are like Doritos ....can you buy just one? Still, life is ruled by perceptions, not necessarily the big picture...so while this is a valid view, the rend results might not add up the same....
(I have a LOT of xwing....a LOT...prolly 5x the cost of my armada ships).

3 - Ships
X Wing didn't have a lot of ships in the beginning....but then again, neigher did xwing. However, xwing "felt" like it had enough. Armada different. Of course, NOW it has tons of ships.....so over time this can change.
Ironically....I think that xwing has too many ships and waves...its getting a bit too big to fast...and some ships are getting bit....out there (its not as bad as attack wing).

4 - Fighters and painting
To most gamers this is a minor issue - but to some it is not. For me, I am actually enjoying paining my little guys, and am starting to repaint my other ships (also repainting a few xwing minis here and there).

5 - Enough games
It did take me a while to get into armada, and have to admit, if not for a local sale where the starter was discounted (all games were discounted, it was not just armada) I may have not picked it up for a while (now a lot of my friends are into it).

I can still agree with many of the other comments (time to play, new counters, etc.) - but I can also say that its an amazing game, and I suggest that if you like xwing, you give it a try - it is close enough to xwing as to be easy to pick up, but different enough to give a very unique experience. Oh, and star wars.


I still totally understand all of the "why isnt armada as popular" - and to me, nothing is 'wrong" with the game - it is just a different game. But I can also say, that the majority of players in my area who have actually played a game - get hooked, and rarely play xwing any more.

Is something wrong with xwing? Nope, its awesome.
Is something wrong with armada? nope, its awesome too.

Just not always the too the same folks.



DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

It would turn games into 40K Armaggedon territory... but I came up with this idea, for friendly games... why not half the point costs. Round down while you're at it.

I bet that'd be Epic enough for Star Wars.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
 
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