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What book is that from?

 sfshilo wrote:
Does anyone use this?
https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0398/29/1431120824134.png

Also, 55 points does not seem misplaced, especially with the grenade FAQ. These things are immune to small armes fire being AV 11 after all.

Sisters pay 80 points for a beefier version of this.

thats 53ish points per model for regular Killa Kanz and you get 1 Grotzooka and your leader with the grotzooka counts as a Deff Dread for Cowardly Grot rules......this is actually WORSE then a regular unit of kanz for a couple of reasons. 1: not enough of them, 2: Mixed weapons meaning they aren't good Vs any specific target and 3: They are still over priced Kanz

Sisters pay 80pts for a beefier version of Kanz?

WS2, 2 Attacks, Strength 7 Attacks.......

Think about this, Kanz used to be 35pts a model, didn't have that stupid Cowardly grot rule AND were S10. GW Stripped them of 3 Strength in the assault phase, gave them a ld issue AND raised their prices by over 40%

Kanz went from good (playable in most armies) to never seen in anything except friendly games. Sorry for the rant, its just I really hate whoever wrote our codex with a passion, they clearly had PTSD from Kanz and Battlewagonz.

 Blackie wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
How the Gorkonaut fare?

It's a bit better than the morkanaut but still one of the worst unit in the ork codex.

idk it's miles better shooting than the morkanaut, enough so it's say it's mid tier unit and the best of the ork walkers short of buzzgob's stompa.

 slip wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
How the Gorkonaut fare?

It's a bit better than the morkanaut but still one of the worst unit in the ork codex.

idk it's miles better shooting than the morkanaut, enough so it's say it's mid tier unit and the best of the ork walkers short of buzzgob's stompa.

I have never understood this. How is the Gorkanaut better then the Morkanaut at shooting? The Deffstorm Mega shoota and the Skorcha are the only difference in weapons. I will gladly grant you that the Skorcha is superior to the KMB. But the Deffstorm is S6 Heavy 3D6. On average thats 10-11 shots. at BS2 thats 3-4hits. Even on the high end its only averaging 6 S6 hits. So why does everyone think thats better then the Morkanauts KMK S8 AP2 Small blast? I'll again grant you the point that the KMK is better off as artillery but since we are only comparing weapon load outs between the Mork and Gorkanaut I just don't see that much of a difference, especially since Gork is 15pts more expensive.

the small blast is 3" diameter, 1.5" radius. Average scatter is 5". Gets hot. It's a massive liability.

 slip wrote:
the small blast is 3" diameter, 1.5" radius. Average scatter is 5". Gets hot. It's a massive liability.

Risk, reward. You risk damage but you are rewarded with destroying Terminators and other 2+ save models

I'd rather take the 30 point kmk than the 300 point one.

 slip wrote:
I'd rather take the 30 point kmk than the 300 point one.

I agree, I would take a battery of KMKs over either Mork or Gorkanaut.

5 KMK in a battery with T7 with 10 extra grots = 180pts. Literally 5 times more "Good" Fire power then a Morkanaut, harder by far to kill, ohh and 50pts cheaper then the morkanaut, 65pts cheaper then the Gorkanaut.

But lets get back to Kanz. I still love my Kanz even if they are AS BAD if not WORSE then Nauts.

Yeah, if there's one thing that is wrong with Morkanaut and the Gorkanaut, it's that their damage output from their main guns is ridiculously low.

The KMK should have 2 profiles, with one profile being the usual small blast and the other profile uses a large blast instead but only when mounted on a Morkanaut, similar to the wraithblade becoming a strength D weapon in the hands of a wraithknight. That way it actually brings something to the table for an Ork player and its actually worth the Gets Hot! Risk.

The Deffstorm Mega-Shoota really should have a better profile than a supa-shoota. For starters, from the way it looks I expected it to at least be twin-linked, with AP3 and rending. Now it can actually threaten things and show a proper tiering of shoota weapons.

SemperMortis wrote:

 slip wrote:
I'd rather take the 30 point kmk than the 300 point one.

I agree, I would take a battery of KMKs over either Mork or Gorkanaut.

5 KMK in a battery with T7 with 10 extra grots = 180pts. Literally 5 times more "Good" Fire power then a Morkanaut, harder by far to kill, ohh and 50pts cheaper then the morkanaut, 65pts cheaper then the Gorkanaut.

But lets get back to Kanz. I still love my Kanz even if they are AS BAD if not WORSE then Nauts.

No way Kanz are as bad as either of the Orkanauts. A single 6 from a grav weapon or a vehicle explosion nullifies the entire Naut while you need way more shots to do the same to an equal number of Kanz. With grotzookas they can put out a lot of wounds on most infantry and the Kanz smaller profile means they can actually sometimes get some cover saves which is extremely helpful at ruining the day of many a long range anti vehicle shot. AV13 is all well and good but not when its shooting output is meh and for the same amount of points you can get 2.5 Deff Dreads or 5 Killa Kans. Honestly I would rather have the Kanz or Dreads over a single Naut.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, if there's one thing that is wrong with Morkanaut and the Gorkanaut, it's that their damage output from their main guns is ridiculously low.

The KMK should have 2 profiles, with one profile being the usual small blast and the other profile uses a large blast instead but only when mounted on a Morkanaut, similar to the wraithblade becoming a strength D weapon in the hands of a wraithknight. That way it actually brings something to the table for an Ork player and its actually worth the Gets Hot! Risk.

The Deffstorm Mega-Shoota really shoot have a better profile than a supa-shoota. For starters, from the way it looks I expected it to at least be twin-linked, with AP3 and rending. Now it can actually threaten things and show a proper tiering of shoota weapons.

I never really put it together but by Gork is the Deffstorm a garbage weapon due to Ork Ballistic Skill. A Dakkajet out shoots the Deffstorm by a wide margin and that's without even calling a Waaagh! by virtue of being Twin Linked and having Strafing Run which greatly enhances the effectiveness of the shooting. Also it doesn't help that the Garbagenaut suffers from the age old issue which still plagues the 41st millennia known as weapon schizophrenia. The Gorkanaut has a gun that averages twelve S6 AP4 shots, six TL S5 shots AP5 shots with both being 36" range, two S8 AP3 24" shots, and a flame thrower (non torrent). Your almost never going to be shooting at anything where you can put every weapon to use (zogging flamers) and rarely are S5 AP5 shooting and S8 AP3 shooting ideal for the same target. If I was Gork or Mork I would be mad to have my name placed on these walking garbage bins.

I never really put it together but by Gork is the Deffstorm a garbage weapon due to Ork Ballistic Skill. A Dakkajet out shoots the Deffstorm by a wide margin and that's without even calling a Waaagh! by virtue of being Twin Linked and having Strafing Run which greatly enhances the effectiveness of the shooting. Also it doesn't help that the Garbagenaut suffers from the age old issue which still plagues the 41st millennia known as weapon schizophrenia. The Gorkanaut has a gun that averages twelve S6 AP4 shots, six TL S5 shots AP5 shots with both being 36" range, two S8 AP3 24" shots, and a flame thrower (non torrent). Your almost never going to be shooting at anything where you can put every weapon to use (zogging flamers) and rarely are S5 AP5 shooting and S8 AP3 shooting ideal for the same target. If I was Gork or Mork I would be mad to have my name placed on these walking garbage bins.

Yeaaaah....unfortunately, it seems like GW thought they could design us Land Raider esque walkers with weapons that are completely at odds with one another without even giving us the decency of having some form of split fire or PoTMS that normal LR have. It really feels like they were originally created to be super heavies since they have this mish-mash of contradictory weapons but halfway through someone made sure they were just normal walkers since only Imperials, Eldar and Tau are the only ones who can get the goodies.

I would say they'd be okay if you got rid of that weird morale rule they have.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I would say they'd be okay if you got rid of that weird morale rule they have.

I don't know how that rule made it beyond a passing thought as its just terrible design. They took a unit, upped its points cost, weakened its melee damage, and then decided that "You know how vehicles are all immune to morale issues.... maybe kanz should have morale because grots are cowards". Somehow this seemed like a smart idea and so we have kanz who self shaken for no zogging good reason. Its not like they gave kanz some cool new rules and this is suppose to offset things. Fortunately I have been lucky in not losing a large amount of kanz outside of melee combat so the kanz can keep spamming their grotzookas before waddling into close combat where they drag out combat for 4+ rounds.

 slip wrote:


idk it's miles better shooting than the morkanaut

woopity doo

 Vankraken wrote:

A Dakkajet out shoots the Deffstorm by a wide margin and that's without even calling a Waaagh! .

Not really, considering that the dakkajet starts in reserve, may not come turn 2, may jink, may fly off the board at some point.... ork planes usually shoot 2-3 in turns, so the gorkanaut is actually a better shooter, not to mention that it has s10 ap2 attacks with rampage so quite good also in close combat. The dakkajet is better in shooting other flyers and in points cost though.

I'm not a fan of both units and I'm struggling to consider what is worse among planes or walkers, I don't like them all, and I would never put a cent into buying them

 Blackie wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

A Dakkajet out shoots the Deffstorm by a wide margin and that's without even calling a Waaagh! .

Not really, considering that the dakkajet starts in reserve, may not come turn 2, may jink, may fly off the board at some point.... ork planes usually shoot 2-3 in turns, so the gorkanaut is actually a better shooter, not to mention that it has s10 ap2 attacks with rampage so quite good also in close combat. The dakkajet is better in shooting other flyers and in points cost though.

I'm not a fan of both units and I'm struggling to consider what is worse among planes or walkers, I don't like them all, and I would never put a cent into buying them

Most weapons snap shoot at the Dakkajet and it can jink for a 4+ cover save and the jet costs half the points cost of a Gorkanaut. The Gorkanaut starts on the table but its rarely getting cover (its a big vehicle) and the real nasty anti vehicle weapons are hitting at full BS against it. The jet also has the benefit of almost always getting a round of undisruptive shooting at full effect at basically any target on the table and usually that shooting is when your calling a WAAAGH for the extra shots. The Gorkanaut by contrast is waddling around at 6" or less a turn if it wants to shoot and if it doesn't then its running D6 and "wasting" all that shooting. Most vehicle killer units (fusion crisis suits, drop pod meltas, etc) will be cost effective at destroying or at the very least immobilizing/stunning a Gorkanaut while its far less likely those units will get their points worth trying to take out a Dakkajet, a unit of Kanz or a Deffdread. The Gorkanaut is clearly better when it can get into CC but being a slow moving and big yet still non super heavy walker its not going to be catching fast units and shooting slows down its forward progress. The Gorkanaut is too much of a mixed bag that tries to be a Knight but lacks the movement, super heavy durability, and freedom to multi target to be any good at any of its tasks.

 Vankraken wrote:

The Gorkanaut starts on the table but its rarely getting cover (its a big vehicle)...

I basically agree with everything you said with the exception of this assumption, as you'll always have some terrain or friendly/enemy units between the gorkanaut and those models that are aiming at it. Unless something deep strikes in a particulary spot, for example near the naught's rear, it's quite easy to move the gorkanaut in order to get cover against most if not every enemy shooty units. Terrain should cover at least 25% of the table.

What I meant and poorly articulated is that with it being a big model and somewhat tall (and a very wide base) is that as it waddles up the field its less likely to get 25% cover from shorter terrain like sand bags, rubble walls, fences, etc and its also going to be difficult to physically fit inside ruins which means its going to be more likely standing outside of area terrain (not that area terrain benefits it without 25% obscured) which means its not as hard for units to get a clear shot on it without terrain. Sometimes it can get a nice wall to stand behind but I find a lot of the bigger LoS blocking pieces of terrain to be more along the lines of impassable terrain.

I wish there was a way to make Kanz troops
That way they would be SOLID in all games
Currently my warboss is a Slimmed down Killa Kan for my Grot Army

 commander dante wrote:
I wish there was a way to make Kanz troops
That way they would be SOLID in all games
Currently my warboss is a Slimmed down Killa Kan for my Grot Army

There is a formation in the W!G book you can take by itself that allows you to take a bunch of Killa Kanz. You could fill an 1850 list with just that formation. Gives the walkers 'ere we go too.

 commander dante wrote:
I wish there was a way to make Kanz troops
That way they would be SOLID in all games
Currently my warboss is a Slimmed down Killa Kan for my Grot Army

The Dread Mob army had Deff Dreads as troops and Kans as FA, and a lot of the time it felt like that should have been reversed. Anyone agree/disagree? Is having shooty units as troops not orky enuff?

 Vankraken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I would say they'd be okay if you got rid of that weird morale rule they have.

I don't know how that rule made it beyond a passing thought as its just terrible design. They took a unit, upped its points cost, weakened its melee damage, and then decided that "You know how vehicles are all immune to morale issues.... maybe kanz should have morale because grots are cowards". Somehow this seemed like a smart idea and so we have kanz who self shaken for no zogging good reason. Its not like they gave kanz some cool new rules and this is suppose to offset things. Fortunately I have been lucky in not losing a large amount of kanz outside of melee combat so the kanz can keep spamming their grotzookas before waddling into close combat where they drag out combat for 4+ rounds.

Also, the morale rule would be fine IF it was on old kan rules with a cost reduction and/or IF they got something really useful in return.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I would say they'd be okay if you got rid of that weird morale rule they have.

I don't know how that rule made it beyond a passing thought as its just terrible design. They took a unit, upped its points cost, weakened its melee damage, and then decided that "You know how vehicles are all immune to morale issues.... maybe kanz should have morale because grots are cowards". Somehow this seemed like a smart idea and so we have kanz who self shaken for no zogging good reason. Its not like they gave kanz some cool new rules and this is suppose to offset things. Fortunately I have been lucky in not losing a large amount of kanz outside of melee combat so the kanz can keep spamming their grotzookas before waddling into close combat where they drag out combat for 4+ rounds.

Also, the morale rule would be fine IF it was on old kan rules with a cost reduction and/or IF they got something really useful in return.

I guess GW though rokkits being free and Grotzooka costing less was enough of a boon. All the nerfs are unnecessary and smell a lot like painful memories of Kan Wall. Sometimes I use them anyway for a laugh but they are pretty bad.

Honestly Kan wall probably wouldn't work in 7e due to how mobile everything else is compared to kans.

Looking at the kit, I think Killa Kans would make great models to have wrecked at the bases of my Stormtalons and Stormraven...