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 Karhedron wrote:

One thing that interests me is the concept that the Yncarne is running around and active even before Ynnead has been fully awakened, acting rather like a herald. I am sure I remember some old fluff about there being a proto-Slaaneshi daemon capering about on the Eldar worlds before the fall, encouraging ever greater acts of depravity to help bring about Slaanesh's awakening. Almost like a pre-incarnation of the god, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That is from the Bill King novel Farseer.

I see the Yncarne is analogous to the Slaanesh daemon from that novel. Both ultimately act to further the aims of their parent god, and the most immediate goal is/was to awaken to full consciousness.

 Karhedron wrote:

Think of Ynnead as a small insurgent force waging asymmetrical warfare against a vastly superior opposing army. But the opposing army cannot easily bring its strength to bear because it is also guarding the borders, waging other wars, dealing with constant internal disputes and hundreds of other distractions. So the insurgents are a threat in spite of their fewer numbers.

That's a really good way of thinking about their relation too one-another. It's also juxtaposes quite nicely with Chaos' relationship with the Imperium.

 Karhedron wrote:

One thing that interests me is the concept that the Yncarne is running around and active even before Ynnead has been fully awakened, acting rather like a herald. I am sure I remember some old fluff about there being a proto-Slaaneshi daemon capering about on the Eldar worlds before the fall, encouraging ever greater acts of depravity to help bring about Slaanesh's awakening. Almost like a pre-incarnation of the god, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Very interesting, I think you're right. I'd very much like to find the quote in the fluff about that proto-Slaanesh running about. I know about the Dark Muses, but that's a new one on me.

It'd also lend a bit of weight to the 'the Chaos Gods have always existed, even before they were born' thing, as their proto-consciousnesses could have been enacting their will in the materium before they themselves achieved apotheosis.

Having a daemon active before the god awakens does not itself mean the gods have always existed. Slaanesh first started from a conglomeration of decadent Eldar souls that stuck together instead of dispersing and reincarnating, and the daemon was active only in the immediate time right before the Fall, when the slide decadence was already well underway. There are no mentions of any Slaanesh daemons in ancient Eldar myth before that. Ergo it seems an about to awaken god can form daemons, which are basically small parts of the whole given autonomy. If there is no collection of souls, then there can be energy with which to split off into a daemon in the first place.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

I'd very much like to find the quote in the fluff about that proto-Slaanesh running about. I know about the Dark Muses, but that's a new one on me.

The Daemon in question is Shaha Gaathon, Harbinger of Slaanesh from the novel Farseer. A bit more info here.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathsword

Iracundus wrote:
Having a daemon active before the god awakens does not itself mean the gods have always existed. Slaanesh first started from a conglomeration of decadent Eldar souls that stuck together instead of dispersing and reincarnating, and the daemon was active only in the immediate time right before the Fall, when the slide decadence was already well underway. There are no mentions of any Slaanesh daemons in ancient Eldar myth before that. Ergo it seems an about to awaken god can form daemons, which are basically small parts of the whole given autonomy. If there is no collection of souls, then there can be energy with which to split off into a daemon in the first place.

That was always my understanding, and it does fit with what's happening with Ynnead. I've always been a bit skeptical of the whole 'the Chaos Gods have always existed' thing when we know when they were 'born'.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

I'd very much like to find the quote in the fluff about that proto-Slaanesh running about. I know about the Dark Muses, but that's a new one on me.

The Daemon in question is Shaha Gaathon, Harbinger of Slaanesh from the novel Farseer. A bit more info here.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathsword

Very interesting, and lots of parallels between that and Ynnead/the Crone Swords.