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Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Yarn storm casts now have chapter tactics? Just great just effing great.

Its no different than Disciples of Tzeentch having different Cults, or Sylvaneth having different Wargroves, or Bonesplitterz having different Warclans, or Seraphon having different Starhosts, etc.

And here I thought the stat cards would look more like the ones that come in the Storm of Sigmar set....boo. Sucks they are so small.

 Ghaz wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Yarn storm casts now have chapter tactics? Just great just effing great.

Its no different than Disciples of Tzeentch having different Cults, or Sylvaneth having different Wargroves, or Bonesplitterz having different Warclans, or Seraphon having different Starhosts, etc.

Starhosts? You mean Battalions? Yeah, everyone has different Battalions.

I mean, you're not wrong either, these are just different Battalions exemplifying the particular Stormhosts.

Nope. I meant Starhosts, even though they don't really fit in with the multi-battalion warscrolls that I was using as a example.

 Ghaz wrote:
Nope. I meant Starhosts, even though they don't really fit in with the multi-battalion warscrolls that I was using as a example.

All of our Battalions are called Starhosts. Or did you mean the Starbeast Constellation, which is the Multi-Battalion?

A fair few comments to come back on!

ERJAK wrote:
I have to say, the more I see of this the more disappointed I am from a competitive standpoint. Most of the new battalions are worthless in 2000 point games. The celestial hunting pack is 1880 baseline and includes no battleline units and doesn't make anything part of the battalion battleline either so unless order gets a battleline you can take for 40 points it's completely unusable.

There are plenty of Battalions suitable for 2,000 point games, such as the Thunderhead Brotherhood, for example. The larger Battalions are suitable for larger Matched Play games - they will fit in perfectly well in a 4,000 point game (though you might have to go larger for the Extremis Chamber). They are catering for all levels of play, not just 2,000 point pick-ups.

Put another way, if they had put in these Battalions for, as you say, Open and Narrative Play, and then not given them any points cost at all, Matched Play players would be complaining about that instead.

 auticus wrote:
They can shoot and assault on the turn they come in. So basically no matter what you do they are going to teleport in front of you and charge.

Well... not exactly. A third if their units are not going to arrive, and they have no control over which models they are, making co-ordinated attacks problematic. Second, when they land, they have to roll to charge, and most of the time they will fail, leaving those units swinging in the wind.

Goddin wrote:
As much as you may have hated it, it drove the purchasing decisions for many players, including myself. I spent a considerable amount of money for an army with a certain play style only for that play style to promptly be removed

And from the other side, it has not been removed, simply made more difficult and requiring some thought to pull it off. Which is good, surely. You don't want an auto, or near-auto win every time you play a game, right?

They are writing this game for everyone, not just Stormcast players.

Goddin wrote:
But in this case you buried the lead that the most popular stormcast battalions and abilities were drastically changed and made less powerful.

I didn't bury it - I thought it was a perfectly obvious move for them to make. We knew that AoS was going to be rebalanced (perhaps every year), and this was something that needed doing.

 Valander wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the future of cards.

It may, if we stand up and say 'good idea, GW, it is what we wanted, but come on, let us take a trip to Real Street and make them readable'.

[quote=Wayniac 718060 9203517 null these destruction armies do enough mortal wounds on the charge (before combat phase) that stormcast won't get a single full strength unit to attack back....

May I humbly ask about the special abilities of the Hammers of Sigmar I hope you didn't sign some non-disclosure agreement with your blood

Pretty sure that is a guy. 

Indeed, found a close-up on Spacebattles.com.

https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1714/20170216_163734.jpg

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/warhammer-fantasy-general-thread.333032/page-256

Alas, female Stormcast will still be kitbashed with the pretty faces of elves and sisters.

Come on, guys, if all armies were the same, then we would have a problem...

A more horrifying thing my mind cannot fathom.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:Yarn storm casts now have chapter tactics? Just great just effing great.

What is exactly wrong with this? I don't understand. If Stormcast Eternals have chapter tactics now, that is good. Fleshes out the game. What is wrong with this if everybody gets this treatment? Unless you are saying not everyone will get this treatment.

Davor wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:Yarn storm casts now have chapter tactics? Just great just effing great.

What is exactly wrong with this? I don't understand. If Stormcast Eternals have chapter tactics now, that is good. Fleshes out the game. What is wrong with this if everybody gets this treatment? Unless you are saying not everyone will get this treatment.

What he does not realize this has been a thing since the sylvaneth tome. It's just like disciples of tzeentch with the different cults and daemon hosts.

Assuming here, but I am going to guess his issue is that they have chapter tactics and that somehow this mirrors space marines and that this is a bad thing because it mirrors space marines.

Except that they aren't chapter tactics. Chapter tactics are something every marine has no matter what. An extra special rule that they have just by calling them a name. It isn't tied to a specific formation. In this we have the same thing as others have mentioned that the newer books have got. Battalions that give special rules based on tribe/wargrove/stormhost. And they are things you pay for and restrict your army build.

I've ordered the Battletome and I'm excited for it to eventually show up. I like the extra options and the ability to possibly play something other than warrior brotherhood/skyborne slayers.

Just going by the wall of rage that has been echoed on facebook groups now about it

 auticus wrote:
Just going by the wall of rage that has been echoed on facebook groups now about it

Oh, I bet. It's interesting how that echo chamber is still going. Even when the things they do are just inline with stuff the non-"AoS Marines" have gotten.

This is what they mean when they say 'Chapter Tactics':

Alas they cannot be used in matched play unless they have a price in the battletome or GH2. By that reasoning they are not a free bonus.

But they do get a lot of love. Just like adeptus astartes. The safe bet for a gamer us to choose SM/SE as the armies of choice.

Waaargh wrote:
Alas they cannot be used in matched play unless they have a price in the battletome or GH2. By that reasoning they are not a free bonus.

They do have points, so they can be used in Matched Play. The problem with these multi-battalion warscrolls is having enough points for the component warscrolls.

Great read Matt, gonna have to pick up the Stormcasts back up again. Even though I do play the Eternals, they were WAY too powerful with the deep strike ability. Making them roll for reserve, and the placement be random is definitely a step in the right direction.

They have made them more like Space Marines though, something I would have personally stepped away from. Callouts to Chapter Tactics and similar heraldry have slightly miffed me, but all armies have different tactics, real life or fantasy. I just hope these Tactics aren't just "well, the [insert chamber] tactics are the best, let's use them". But seriously, if you're that bothered about the Eternals getting Tactics well... Can't blame GW for doing what made SM the best selling army for 40k.

At least with a custom Chamber, I can use whatever Tactics I'd like (Hopefully there is one that fits my Chamber's fluff well). Excited for the release either way!

I misread part of the battalion, my comment no longer makes sense - please ignore.

Is the Vexillor getting nerfed? I noticed it's points went down... by 60.

Edit: it did indeed. Though, correct me if im wrong, since anything yountake as part of one of the 'chapter tactics' batallions counts as one unit, i can sort of see why they nerfed our alpha strike capability. You plop down the batallion as one, finish deplying first since everything is part of the mega warscroll batallion, take first turn, then ruin someones day.

Im new, so forgive me if i am reading how that works incorrectly.

Forgive the dumb question from an AoS newb, but...
The Celestial Hunting Pack that MongooseMatt has highlighted on his page - that's exactly what I would want to play as a Stormcast army. I see it is a battalion, but can that be the entirety of an army?

The pitched battle points for that battalion come out very close to 2000, and I don't know if there's a Battleline requirement or not if you field that battalion.

If I did take that battalion, would i still need 3 battleline Stormcast units? or is that battalion on its own Pitched Battle legal?

For matched play purposes that Celestial Hunting Pack battalion is minimum 2180 points. You have the cost of the units in the battalion, plus 3 battleline units (Liberators for minimum amount) and then the cost of the battalion itself. I agree that it seems like a missed opportunity on GW's part.

MongooseMatt wrote:
The winds of change have been sweeping through Age of Sigmar, and it is the turn of the Stormcast Eternals to feel their effect. A brand new Battletome is about to be released for them, and I managed to snaggle an early copy. Full review here but if you want to see the actual book (and, for this Battletome, you really do - trust me on this one), hope along to https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/review-battletome-stormcast-eternals-the-new-one/



So, is it any good?

Well, first off… the cover seems a little less detailed, a little less inspiring to my completely untrained eye than the first edition. Not really here or there and, it has to be said, entirely unrepresentative of the glorious art inside, but still… not completely awesome for what is a very important book in the Age of Sigmar line.

Yeah, compared to the first SE battletome:



This one looks more... flat? It's not as good.

Goddin wrote:
For matched play purposes that Celestial Hunting Pack battalion is minimum 2180 points. You have the cost of the units in the battalion, plus 3 battleline units (Liberators for minimum amount) and then the cost of the battalion itself. I agree that it seems like a missed opportunity on GW's part.

Thanks Goddin. I agree, total missed opportunity, especially when you could have just dropped one unit of the gryphs or the dracoths from the battalion and have it be possible for 2000 point matched play. I was hoping I could run just those units, but I guess not. I'll have to ponder if I'd want to move forward.

Holy carp! I just read the PDF for the gryph-charger guys. That warp movement thing and lunar blade are crazy.

 GrimTeef wrote:
Forgive the dumb question from an AoS newb, but...
The Celestial Hunting Pack that MongooseMatt has highlighted on his page - that's exactly what I would want to play as a Stormcast army. I see it is a battalion, but can that be the entirety of an army?

The pitched battle points for that battalion come out very close to 2000, and I don't know if there's a Battleline requirement or not if you field that battalion.

If I did take that battalion, would i still need 3 battleline Stormcast units? or is that battalion on its own Pitched Battle legal?

That army is impossible to take in 2000 points matched play.

 auticus wrote:
My issues with stormcast are that for the most part every stormcast player I know is frothing at the mouth to be able to play a deepstriking alpha strike army.

And that playstyle is abysmal. Its basically setting up across from your opponent and then taking it in the chin as they dictate the entire battle with little to no response from you.

There are some very important differences that makes this not as big deal as it might seem, in fact much worse than it was before the new battletome and worse than in 40k.

1) They have no drop pod equivalent to guarantee units coming in turn 1, and on top of that they can't choose which units come in and which don't.
2) They can charge... in theory. But they land 9" away. What will happen quite often is they drop, fail the charge, and get charged and killed next turn. This is even worse because with the random nature of the drop, you can't guarantee that the dropping units will have any support.

I'm thinking the drops will mainly get used as objective holders and rapidly depolyed support for other units, not as an alpha strike "BOOM you're dead" like it is in 40k.

Ouch, Lords of the Storm went from 4 characters to minimum 6 with one of them having to be a Lord Castellant or Veritant. That puts most of the larger formations out of play as you're looking at minimum 640 for the battalion.

They also changed the vanguard wing to include a unit of Judicators....

Still checking out other stuff. It's different.