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I've taken more of an interest in orks recently, and I'll admit until I took the time to read about them they came across as a silly, comedy faction to me. That's largely ignorance, but also the GW/BL tendency to use orks as the NPC faction that lose to make the heroes look heroic. When they don't appear to be as threatening as tyranids or chaos all that's left is the comedy depictions, which I'd like to see less of (for what it's worth).

Anyway, there have been some great contributions in this thread. I'm thinking of reading the Beast trilogy soon- is it any good? Is it on par with typical HH stories?

I have another question; to what extent to do orks speak gothic? I imagine the typical ork doesn't know a word of it, but obviously some do. What motivates them to learn it? Next question; what about humans/astartes speaking orkish? I imagine it would be reasonably easy for a space marine to learn ork language if they saw some benefit to it

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I've taken more of an interest in orks recently, and I'll admit until I took the time to read about them they came across as a silly, comedy faction to me. That's largely ignorance, but also the GW/BL tendency to use orks as the NPC faction that lose to make the heroes look heroic. When they don't appear to be as threatening as tyranids or chaos all that's left is the comedy depictions, which I'd like to see less of (for what it's worth).

Perhaps the most important aspect of the Orks is the humorous aspect they provide to an otherwise very dark universe, even if that humour is also deeply rooted in murdering and looting.

Some Orks genuinely are oafish gits who are easily outmanoeuvred by other races, others aren't. There is very little to find beyond the surface of what you can see in Orks for a very good reason; their strength as a faction is in their delightfully simplistic and often funny logic, which results in successful battle tactics and technology that completely baffles all the more advanced races around them, combined with an incredible will to survive.

I have another question; to what extent to do orks speak gothic? I imagine the typical ork doesn't know a word of it, but obviously some do. What motivates them to learn it?

We don't know, although I'd speculate that Freebooter nobles (i.e. Nobz, Kaptins) will probably know a decent amount of it in order to carry through negotiations for mercenary work.

Other motivations for learning it amongst regular Orks would probably lie mainly in being able to hurl abuse at the enemy that they would understand.

Next question; what about humans/astartes speaking orkish? I imagine it would be reasonably easy for a space marine to learn ork language if they saw some benefit to it

The only human I know of who can speak Orkish is Yarrick. Most Imperial commanders who don't specialise in killing Orks would probably determine learning the language to be an act of heresy.

 General Annoyance wrote:


Perhaps the most important aspect of the Orks is the humorous aspect they provide to an otherwise very dark universe, even if that humour is also deeply rooted in murdering and looting.

Some Orks genuinely are oafish gits who are easily outmanoeuvred by other races, others aren't. There is very little to find beyond the surface of what you can see in Orks for a very good reason; their strength as a faction is in their delightfully simplistic and often funny logic, which results in successful battle tactics and technology that completely baffles all the more advanced races around them, combined with an incredible will to survive.

Yea, fair point. Ork humour definitely adds something to 40k. I think it gets overplayed a bit at times but if the alternative was completely humourless orks the background would suffer for it

I have another question; to what extent to do orks speak gothic? I imagine the typical ork doesn't know a word of it, but obviously some do. What motivates them to learn it?

We don't know, although I'd speculate that Freebooter nobles (i.e. Nobz, Kaptins) will probably know a decent amount of it in order to carry through negotiations for mercenary work.

Other motivations for learning it amongst regular Orks would probably lie mainly in being able to hurl abuse at the enemy that they would understand.

That seems reasonable. I imagine any scenario in which a veteran ork sees a benefit to learning some gothic could justify it.

The only human I know of who can speak Orkish is Yarrick. Most Imperial commanders who don't specialise in killing Orks would probably determine learning the language to be an act of heresy.

I can see that. In that case I suppose almost all ork-human interactions would rely on the orks speaking gothic, rather than the other way around

A pretty good example of Ork intelligence is the comic Deffskwadron. I don't think it's tied to actual lore, but you get a snippet of Ork intelligence of not being stupid.

wyrdboyz iz da smartez orkz

Maximus Bitch wrote:
wyrdboyz iz da smartez orkz

We've seen lots of meks that are very smart (or at least as kunnin' as Mork could make them), where have we seen smart weirdboys? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I think humanity greatly overestimates the complexity of it's own intelligence. An Ork Boy can make a shoota out of almost nothing without a complex understanding of the science behind it, or at least an altered understanding of it. Is it that totally different from a man who assembles a pre-constructed rifle? If anything, the orks better resemble the mechanical assembly line that made the rifle. Does the computer that runs an assembly line really know all the science behind how a gun works? Did the programmer really know? Does anyone really know anything or are we all just putting our blind faith into this stuff and hoping it works when by all natural law it probably shouldn't?

We say that ork knowledge is instinctual. So is human mating apparently, and you could fool me.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:
wyrdboyz iz da smartez orkz

We've seen lots of meks that are very smart (or at least as kunnin' as Mork could make them), where have we seen smart weirdboys? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

'zacly. Only a stoopid Ork lets uvver Orks know how cunnin he iz. Da reel cunnin wunz are so cunnin you nevva know bout it til they hit you inna face wiv a big hammer. Den you know

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
We've seen lots of meks that are very smart (or at least as kunnin' as Mork could make them), where have we seen smart weirdboys? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Old Zogwort?

I always imagined part of the "orks are stupid" thing was the outsider's view of them (as in Imperial humans) and not a truly nuanced appreciation of the orks. In certain circumstances simplistic and low-tech solutions are the right way to go.

I've read a number of sci-fi books where humans discover that a species of what they thought to be animals is actually highly intelligent. They are just so well adapted to their environment (usually at the top of the food chain) that they have no need for tools, schools, writing, etc. I imagine orks to be halfway to that state of being. They don't need education because their innate understanding and toughness allow them to learn from experience. They don't need refined tools because their crude tools work well enough and actually do what they want. A shoota might not be the most accurate or nice looking weapon, but it does exactly what the ork wants which is make a lot of noise, kick really hard and launch lots of large projectiles at the enemy.

In the fluff it states that orks possess a low cunning and an innate understanding of battlefield tactics. I figure orks would instinctively know how to do things like set up ambushes, advance through fire and maneuver and lay out their camps for defense in depth. I also figure that at a certain size of ork waaaagh these strategies might take a back seat to mass frontal assaults for practical reasons.

At a certain point there are so many boyz that it is only practical to send orders to huge groups of them at a time rather than smaller units. Complex maneuvers are difficult because there are so many boyz that they end up running into each other and tripping over themselves. Stealth is virtually impossible for a gigantic horde. The boyz are tough, good at close combat, have really fast vehicles and are willing to charge into enemy fire. The enemy has better artillery, so trying to sit back and slug it out at long range isn't a good option. At this point even though a warboss might have a lot of experience and an innate understanding of tactics, a frontal assault might be the most practical option and it's something that orks are actually good at and enjoy doing. To the Imperials it just looks like orks are being dumb and must be charging into their guns because they don't know any better.


I hope that they don't remove humor from the orks. They might have been a little too silly early in the history of 40k (my understanding is that all of Warhammer 40k started out as kind of a tongue in cheek joke) but I think the perception that orks are just clowns comes mainly from non-ork players. I think most ork players recognize that something can be funny, brutal and terrifying all at the same time.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
We've seen lots of meks that are very smart (or at least as kunnin' as Mork could make them), where have we seen smart weirdboys? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Old Zogwort?

Thanks for reminding me. I have no idea how I forgot about him.

Imo there is more to the ork worlds than we know. They not only need to fight, they also need to build and produce. They can't use slaves for everything after all, and the mushrooms come for free - so i would expect a "hidden" facette that we don't see, which is the entire construction/mining/manufacturing/production part. Also, food - an entire planet full of orks has to be supplied some way. And what better way to do that in large scale, industrially?.

There was a book that had Orks using incredibly complex high gothic science in a few sentences. Can't remember which one it was though.

 Keep wrote:
Imo there is more to the ork worlds than we know. They not only need to fight, they also need to build and produce. They can't use slaves for everything after all, and the mushrooms come for free - so i would expect a "hidden" facette that we don't see, which is the entire construction/mining/manufacturing/production part. Also, food - an entire planet full of orks has to be supplied some way. And what better way to do that in large scale, industrially?.

That's all done by grots who also have innate knowledge built into their DNA. The orks have it good. The way it goes us as the spores are growing the squigs start popping out followed by snotlings that tend to the squigs as well as cultivate fungus. Later the grots come out and begin constructing buildings , setting up an economy, industry etc... The orks, whom take longer to develop, appear last and by the time they do they already have a shanty town built for them complete with slaves, food, production etc... This frees up the orks so they can have time getting into fights and swaggering about.

Edit add: yup not unknown for irks to learn other languages, the Beast used diplomats and Ghazzy at present know High Gothic.

 ProwlerPC wrote:

 Keep wrote:
Imo there is more to the ork worlds than we know. They not only need to fight, they also need to build and produce. They can't use slaves for everything after all, and the mushrooms come for free - so i would expect a "hidden" facette that we don't see, which is the entire construction/mining/manufacturing/production part. Also, food - an entire planet full of orks has to be supplied some way. And what better way to do that in large scale, industrially?.

That's all done by grots who also have innate knowledge built into their DNA. The orks have it good. The way it goes us as the spores are growing the squigs start popping out followed by snotlings that tend to the squigs as well as cultivate fungus. Later the grots come out and begin constructing buildings , setting up an economy, industry etc... The orks, whom take longer to develop, appear last and by the time they do they already have a shanty town built for them complete with slaves, food, production etc... This frees up the orks so they can have time getting into fights and swaggering about.

Something I was thinking about is how many fungus are really good at "mining" the soil for various things. The "mushroom" part of the fungus is the reproductive organ and the bulk of it is a vast network of very thin strands running through the soil.* These strands frequently form symbiotic connections with the roots of plants, with the fungus providing the micronutrients that it is really good at accumulating in exchange for the sugars that the plants is good at producing. They are experimenting with using fungus to clean up the soil around old mines, chemicals spills, and sites of environmental contamination. The fungus that they are using either "sucks up" compounds and breaks them down into something safer, or in the case of heavy metals they accumulate in the mushrooms that are then harvested and taken somewhere for safe storage.

There has been bits in the fluff about orkoid fungus** being used for food and medicine. I'm imagining the fungus also taking on the role of "mining" for the orks. Like, certain types of mushrooms are good at accumulating hydrocarbons and are easy for the brewboyz to ferment into moonshine/fuel. Another type accumulates iron that's formed into small nodules in the mushroom, and the fleshy bits are burned off so the mekboyz can use them to start blacksmithing. Another type of mushroom could be dried and ground into gunpowder. It would be way faster for them to just scavenge and raid for these things, but for feral orks in a remote location they would have everything they need to (slowly) start producing weapons, armor and vehicles.***

I haven't read anything in the fluff about gunpowder shrooms or lead shrooms, I just thought it was a fun idea. Maybe it's in there somewhere.

I'm on the second book in The Beast Arises. I'm doing my best to force myself to sit through all this Imperial stuff instead of just skipping ahead to the Orky bits.

*There are a huge variety of fungus out there, and they don't all produce mushrooms and they don't all live in the soil. I only have a gardener's knowledge and appreciation of fungus.
**Maybe the orkoid fungus isn't even really a fungus as we understand it and only bears a superficial relationship based on appearance.
***Of course these would be silly sci-fi space opera mushrooms, but I'm okay with that.

It's certainly plausible. I know the orkoid fungus itself is very hardy and aggressive. Capable of surviving the vacuum of space, high radiation, extreme temperature (with limits exceeded by weaponry) but also capable of out competing local flora as the fungus leaches all surrounding nutrients and minerals to grow the orkoid species. It's not just an army invading but also an entire terraforming ecosystem.

From what I remember of TBA Orks have no internal organs as such.

1) Orks can and do hire themselves out. The Rogue Trader RPG from fantasy flight games had them as NPC's I believe for your Rogue Trader House.

2) Orks will 'bargain' their assistance to certain races to destroy another more dangerous threat before then turning on their original ally in a big waaagh!

3) If I remember correctly in the 1998 Ork Codex there was a bit of fluff including a diagram showing how the ork spore grows into a mushroom with the Ork growing in a pod underground. It mentioned environment conditions for the Orks to grow. If the fungi grew too far away from other spores or the conditions were wrong the Orks would never grow and it would remain a mushroom. Now back to Ork 'intelligence' they are of course sentient, but in the 1998 codex there was either a story/report from a Magos in bioscience that tried to Brainwash Orks to be like servitor soldiers for the Imperium. He tried various tests and experiments and even tried to use implants to control the Orks. After 10 years the Ork subjects were still aggressive beasts that couldn't be conditioned or controlled. The project was cancelled and Orks destroyed.

Well yes thanks to being half plant some organs would be redundant due to the function being performed at a cellular level but we at least know and can deduce some organs. They have brains and a central nervous system with confirmations from the fluff such as Ghazzy having a portion of his brain turned to pulp and deff dredds being wired to an irks central nervous system. Clearly have eyes, ears, noses, tongues and touch to perceive their environment. Haven't heard of gills so I assume lungs at the very minimum to allow them to talk by pushing air through vocal cords. They are said to be able to eat drink and digest just about anything so they do have stomachs and digestion tracts. Or settlements have a designated location known as the drops showing that they do need to get rid of undigested waste requiring anuses and urinary tracts. They clearly bleed and it appears the same as humans as in it immediately turns red from being oxidized so some kind of system to get the blood where it needs to go but I suppose it doesn't necessarily need to be a heart and artery system maybe painboy fluff can rectify that. Looks like we might be running low on organs they might not have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting little bit on not being able to control or alter the Orks predisposed inclinations. A failsafe put in by the Old Ones? A byproduct of their gestalt psykic presence? Or just an indomitable sense of ID and place in the galaxy programmed into their dna?

Yeah Orks definitely have organs:



Love the realisation that Orks aren't just an invading army, they're a terraforming system.

The more I learn about them, the more they perfectly fit the concept of 'ancient species-wide superweapon run amok' which is just brilliant