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 Peregrine wrote:
Let's not buy too much of the "Palp sucks" hype. Palpatine is still a really good upgrade, just no longer broken on the "Imperial lists start at 71 points" level anymore. The sheer flexibility of being able to name your result, on offense or on defense, at any range, regardless of stress/bumping/maneuver colors/etc, is still very powerful. And in many cases it will be pretty obvious which roll is the most important one to use Palpatine on.

I saw so much of the "Palp is Garbage" party tonight, and had myself a giggle. The guy running the X-wing night was saying how "Oh, palpatine isn't worth his point cost, there's no reason to take him" and all that goodness. Honestly, enough salt was flying around it was amazing. The other changes seem to be going over well with the rest of the group there.

The proof will be in the pudding. If Palpatine keeps showing up in tourney lists (and they win), then we'll know he's still worth it.

I'll be honest - range 1 seems a bit harsh for manaroo, but she definitely needed something. Besides, there was a variant I'd seen more than once using her with anti pusuit lasers, feedback array and K4 - that variant has to get up close and personal anyway and wont be affected, it's just the attani/dengaroo token battery that's been clobbered.

My opinion is somewhat of an outsiders: I have always flown some variety of swarm - TIE fighters, TIE/fo, and most recently TIE/sk. Since all these changes affect stuff I don't use, they are, from my biased position, good.

The defender change especially. Trying to hurt an agility 3 ship with multiple defensive tokens is an exercise in futility. Which is FINE. If the bloody thing costs as much as three TIE fighters, I should need three to have a meaningful chance of hurting it. But if I actually manage to block the damn thing (especially as it's probably Ryad and has a huge choice of kturn speeds) can I at least stop her getting tokens then? She's still an agility three, three shield defender - it's not like she dies the instant she has to use unmodified dice.

Its the same with palpatine - he still has the same ability as before, just with the need to commit to it rather than retrospectively go "palp'l'fix it". There is now more skill to using him because you have to decide which is the critical defense roll to bolster. You might waste him if you roll all natural evades, but that means you just rolled all natural evades on what was, by your own choice, the key evade roll of the turn, so my sympathies are limited...

He was too good before. He is now less good. Is he now worth his points.... I don't really fly aces, so I pass the floor to someone who does. I'm pretty sure he's still better than a lambda with support crew, but is he better than a third ace?

Ultimately my feelings are this: he still has no range limit, isn't an action, and has no restriction what ship or roll he can be used on. If you find youself without his bonus when you needed it, it's because you picked up the dice, looked at palps card and said "nah, I'll be fine".

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Nothing else in the game was a sure-fire dice mitigation. Even C3-P0 had a bit of gambling involved.

Nothing else in the game required a double slot, and 8 points.

While I wouldn't argue against the need for a change, I now feel it's swung slightly too far the other way for the cost. Not a million miles, but over the line nonetheless.

I think part of the issue with Palp is, despite costing two crew slots and 8 points, he outclassed any other combination of 2 Crew slots for Empire. Systems Officer. Fleet Officer. Generl Hux. All Imperial Only support crew, none worth taking over Palpatine.

doesn't that say more about how poor the other imperial only choices are rather than how good palp is?

Oberron wrote:
doesn't that say more about how poor the other imperial only choices are rather than how good palp is?

Not really. If Palpatine had never existed those other options might have been viable. They're not bad upgrades, they're just not as broken as pre-nerf Palpatine.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
The proof will be in the pudding. If Palpatine keeps showing up in tourney lists (and they win), then we'll know he's still worth it.

He's clearly still worth it, just not quite a flexible and not an auto-take as a mix of other crew might suit some lists better

The other changes are fine R1 on Manaroo seems a bit harsh but given its a large base its still decent with passable flying

Overall I like the changes and I say that as an avowed lover of the x7 Defender.

Palp is a good change and not as big as people think. I think if you were to look back at games involving Palp and track when he's used, you'd probably be able to predict the dice roll he's going to be used on at the start of the combat phase around 70% of the time. A lot of the failed predictions will be because you already rolled well so didn't need Palp.

This change just means players need to think about risk/reward with Palp, which leads to more decisions, which leads to better players being able to play better, which is good.

 Peregrine wrote:

Oberron wrote:
doesn't that say more about how poor the other imperial only choices are rather than how good palp is?

Not really. If Palpatine had never existed those other options might have been viable. They're not bad upgrades, they're just not as broken as pre-nerf Palpatine.

This. For example, I'm looking at Yorr/Hux/Inspiring Recruit. It offers serious stress management (especially with Inquisitor), can give my entire list free focus. Typically, I'd use Hux, pull the Inquisitors stress to free it up to do white maneuvers/Protect it from BMST, then clear both stress with recruit next turn. The range 2 bubble is decent, especially since I get to move the shuttle before my aces. Then, if I face stress control, I can use Yorr and Recruit to keep my aces stress down. Heck, this is probably the one place that I would use electronic baffles. What does a shuttle have lots of? HP. What's it's role? Supporting Aces. I'd trade 1hp for the chance to pull one more crucial stress off of an ace. However, Pre-Nerf Palp not only had unlimited range (keeping my shuttle safe another turn, and freeing up my aces maneuverability), but also covered blank rolls, instead of just adding yet another focus taken to the mix. So, it was superior in any situation where I was not fighting heavy stress control.

I'm also looking at Stridan/Systems Officer/Hux or Fleet Officer, who can pass out focus and target locks at up to range 3 (Which is amazing for Soontir/Carnor/heck, anyone other than a stressed Inquisitor). Problem is, it's a pick of Stridan/2 Aces/Initiative bid, pick 2. And One of the aces must be Omega leader. Palpatine was better for obvious reasons.