Space Marines: How Human Are They?

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**Melissia**

Ashiraya wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
I found the DoW2 campaign well-written and accurate for this. They show variety but have a different starting point.

Agreed. That was one of the best Space Marine focused fictions in the setting if you ignore the insane feats they could pull off because of the gameplay mechanics.

To be fair, I feel like some of those feats were balanced by the sheer attrition you are taking. You can somehow lose twice your entire chapter's worth of marines over the course of a successful campaign and no one bats an eye.

I think I lost... a compnay's worth of marines total, which isn't unreasonable against a Tyranid hive fleet attacking amidst an Ork invasion with Eldar incursions, especially if you consider the fact that not all of them actually were dead, and were picked up on evac to get medical attention.

**Ynneadwraith**

Nerak wrote:
I read a quote in WD once which catagourised 40k marines into 3 groups.

1: 30k traitors legions. Pretty angry.

2: 40k space marines. Inhuman instruments of destruction.

3: 40k traitor marines. SM that got their humanity back.

I like the quote that "chaos marines of 40k are marines who got their humanity back". Dudes that for whatever reason doesn't want to be instruments of destruction. Dudes that wants to experience feelings or possibly just a simpler life, or maybe dudes that don't like the Imperium and have their own ideas for better Imperium policies. It's not really well represented in the rules, but there's some pretty big character potentials here.

Concerning family and non battle brother bonds the Ultramarines book bring it up on several ocassions. The main character, Uriel Ventris (Captain of the 4th company) talks with a Mortfactors chaplain about his time before becomming an SM. He's also very proud to be family related to an old hero, the Captain of the 1st company during the battle for Maccrage (hive fleet behemoth battle), something that apparently made the recruitment personel take special notice of him. It's also stated that families who have ancestors that became SM, at least in Ultramar, enjoy higher social standings. Since the shrine of the Primarch was open to pilgrims one could easily imagine a few SM standing guard seeing or meeting old family members. It does raise the questions if SM that meet a family relative that also became an SM, maybe 100years later or so, share some form of connection or not. My guess is that it does, though indictrinations would never allow them to put anything but the chapter and Imperium first.

I love the idea that there are Marines who rebel because they regain their humanity.

Perhaps not most of the Chaos Space Marines as their schtick is that they sold what little was left of their humanity to win a war they've been fighting for 10,000 years.

However, i really like the idea of 'renegade' Marines (and other Imperial forces). Not every rebellion involves Chaos. Some of the most interesting ones are those that just rebel because the Imperium is a terrible place and they think they can do better.

For those guys that description fits perfectly

**godking**

Teo wrote:
So I've been working on some custom fluff for a successor chapter of Blood Angels, named the Crimson Knights, and I've got a bit of a question regarding Space Marines.

I know that they are subject to intensive psychological training to prepare them for battle, possibly to the point of brainwashing.

My question is: How human are Space Marines? Do they have friends? Remember family? Have enemies among their same force? (I.E. Gabriel Seth hating Mephiston?) Do Space Marines enjoy leisure time and relaxation?

Ultimately, I'm unclear on if a Space Marine is conditioned to the point of being almost a kamikaze soldier who will die for his cause and feel nothing, or if they're still ultimately human and are just extremely loyal.

My arguments would be as follows.

One one hand you have extreme brainwashing. That suggests that Space Marines would be almost robotic in nature, just fighting for the emperor.

On the other hand, Chaos suggests that Space Marines have personal motives, there is cannon for Gabriel and Mephiston hating each other, etc.

Thank!

It depends on the chapter the space marines closest to still being hguman are the space wolves Salamanders and ultra marines .

**Knockagh**

The new Dante book by Guy Haley has some cracking insights. It brough Ian Watsons Space Marine into the new fluff. BL and GW are constantly evolving what a space marine is to appeal to a newer audience. I don't think that's a bad thing.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daily_rituals_of_a_Space_Marine

This makes for awful fiction as we have seen in the past, monotonous and boring beyond words.

**Manchu**

Ah but the problem is making the SM the audience-vehicle protagonists of the story. This is where the HH novels really stumble hard (esp when it comes to Primarchs) because the Marines are more like characters in any other drama than brainwashed post-humans. Ian Watson's work - outlandish as it seems compared to the severely buttoned down sensibilities of post-4e 40k - is really the best for giving you a sense of how truly, utterly the setting really is.

**Ashiraya**

Melissia wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
I found the DoW2 campaign well-written and accurate for this. They show variety but have a different starting point.

Agreed. That was one of the best Space Marine focused fictions in the setting if you ignore the insane feats they could pull off because of the gameplay mechanics.

To be fair, I feel like some of those feats were balanced by the sheer attrition you are taking. You can somehow lose twice your entire chapter's worth of marines over the course of a successful campaign and no one bats an eye.
I think I lost... a compnay's worth of marines total, which isn't unreasonable against a Tyranid hive fleet attacking amidst an Ork invasion with Eldar incursions, especially if you consider the fact that not all of them actually were dead, and were picked up on evac to get medical attention.

Which is still weird considering there were only half a dozen or so squads present at all, all of which at combat squad level or below!