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When you build a list, do you use 100pts 'ish'?

Details matter. Learn them.

Celestine has buffs for FA units as well.

Yoyoyo wrote:
When you build a list, do you use 100pts 'ish'?

Details matter. Learn them.

Celestine has buffs for FA units as well.

Okay, I just saw that she is 200 pts exactly. She does have hit and run, which is pretty nice. Her buffs are mostly meh, though. Crusader and fleet? Whatever.

Celestine is 200 points and is a straight boss, but she is AP3, not AP2.

Regardless.

Can you please explain the difference between a squad of 5 terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields, who are (a) BA, (b) Codex, (c) DA, or (d) Whoops, Grey Knights can't take storm shields. Not including space wolves since they get better units already in the form of Wulfen, and no one disputes this.

Deep strike assault is absolutely huge... underplaying it seems silly.

 Marmatag wrote:
Celestine is 200 points and is a straight boss, but she is AP3, not AP2.

Regardless.

Can you please explain the difference between a squad of 5 terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields, who are (a) BA, (b) Codex, (c) DA, or (d) Whoops, Grey Knights can't take storm shields. Not including space wolves since they get better units already in the form of Wulfen, and no one disputes this.

Deep strike assault is absolutely huge... underplaying it seems silly.

Not when it's done by one of the worst units in my codex. 45 ppm for a T4 W1 model is awful by 7th ed standards. It doesn't help that disordered charges turn off our chapter tactic. Although S9 rarely makes and difference over S8. It's just an annoyance.

Martel732 wrote:
Her buffs are mostly meh, though. Crusader and fleet? Whatever.

That's not the point. The point is that you're not paying close attention before casting judgements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
45 ppm for a T4 W1 model is awful by 7th ed standards

27pts for T4 3+ is also awful.

You probably understand why we can't judge by the statline alone.

I do like the relics she unlocks. Her best use for me is probably in front of a bunch of DC.

I was just pointing out the defining problem with TH/SS terminators over TWC,Wulfen, and Wraiths. Yes, I know they can't deep strike and assault, but why bother when you can just march across the board without a care? TH/SS are frustratingly fragile.

Martel, I have percieved your issues with the game are mostly about armies which require little synergy vs. those that require a lot.

And you know what? Sure. Why bother playing a synergy-dependent army when you can point and click with Riptides and TWC. Valid point.

Everyone will agree that some armies take more finesse and creativity than others. You either have to embrace the additional challenge or resign yourself to frustration.

Terrain and mission parameters can also affect this further (especially for gunline vs. assault armies).

I've got a list with Capt karlaen, some pods with locator beacons, a couple of frag furiosos, and then various units for the pods along with the OIF as we have been talking about. Never used it, though. It just seems like a tiny list and very gimmicky.

My take... blood angels are fun to play as and against in a non competitive meta. avoid pretty much anything another SM army can take, instead field sang guard, furiosos, and death company. they are a fun quick army in my experience (I own several thousand points of em) and I recommend em for a laid back fun club that likes themed armies and narrative campaigns... just not for the WAAC netlisting 3 wraithknight allied to 4 demon princes type meta.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
My take... blood angels are fun to play as and against in a non competitive meta. avoid pretty much anything another SM army can take, instead field sang guard, furiosos, and death company. they are a fun quick army in my experience (I own several thousand points of em) and I recommend em for a laid back fun club that likes themed armies and narrative campaigns... just not for the WAAC netlisting 3 wraithknight allied to 4 demon princes type meta.

For what it's worth, my friend runs something like this and does quite well.

It was pretty cool watching a squad of DC charge a Riptide, prompting a concede. (1000 point game)

Riptide can win that fight, though.

Martel732 wrote:
Riptide can win that fight, though.

Mathematically anything is possible.

Martel732 wrote:
It just seems like a tiny list and very gimmicky.

Try this.

- Celestine
- Jump CS w/3x Meltaguns
- Grav Devs w/Rhino
- Grav Devs w/Rhino
- Podded Tacs w/Melta or HF
- Podded Tacs w/Melta or HF
- Imperial Knight

You can now remove WK/Stormsurge/Riptides at range on T1, which is important. Celestine gets a FNP jump unit to escort around and you get some fast Melta to pop vehicles or T4. Tacs fill out the CAD, they either help put melta into vehicles or flame Drones and Scatterbikes. Your Knight takes pressure off your list and wrecks anything vulnerable to D or Stomp. Nothing here is strictly terrible... you're losing the free Gladius transports but getting a much better HQ and access to a LOW.

FNP Riptide Wing and Stormsurge is 1100pts, you need to invest in enough shooting + quality CC to actually handle that.

 Marmatag wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Riptide can win that fight, though.

Mathematically anything is possible.

The problem with riptides is that, for an annoyingly evasive speedy durable shooty unit, the mathematical chance of that happening is not insignificant, which is what it probably should be.

It's pretty much Grav, or ID/Stomp/D.

You need something like 40-50 melta shots to drop a Riptide or Wraithknight or Stormsurge. That's not very cost effective for most armies.

I don't think I've ever seen a competitive BA list without some kind of ally to get cost-effective Grav on the table.

Martel732 wrote:
Riptide can win that fight, though.

Sometimes you don't have to beat the list, just the player.

 Marmatag wrote:
Celestine is 200 points and is a straight boss, but she is AP3, not AP2.

Regardless.

Can you please explain the difference between a squad of 5 terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields, who are (a) BA, (b) Codex, (c) DA, or (d) Whoops, Grey Knights can't take storm shields. Not including space wolves since they get better units already in the form of Wulfen, and no one disputes this.

Deep strike assault is absolutely huge... underplaying it seems silly.

The OIF isn't very good. Why ?

Three squads minimum, running at 675pts for TH/SS Terminators
Deep strike earliest at turn 2 unless in Pods* (upping the cost even further to 780pts)
Needs reserves re-roll from somewhere, again unless in Pods*
Needs scatter reduction from beacon/homer, again unless in Pods*

I can overlook all of those, if it wasn't for this :-
I've played Terminator armies for a long time now and TH/SS Terminators just aren't very good in today's meta, especially in this formation. They're a poor assault unit in today's game, and bounce off other dedicated assault units. They're slow and will likely only get one assault off (unless you're opponent is still living in 5th ed and playing a castle/gunline).
This is compounded by Terminators in the OIF being unable to access any of the BA special sauce, either via attached characters or loosing charge bonuses due to disordered charge. You're probably just better off starting them on the table with attached BA characters and running them up the table.

*Your group may/may not allow the OIF in pods.

How about Lost Brotherhood Strike Force
core: Death Company Strikeforce: 3 Death Company Squads with a Death Company Dread and a Death Company Chaplain.
aux: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force: 3 units of Terminators and Assault Terminators in any combination.

The problem is lists without Grav Cannons and melee that reliably drops big monsters will struggle against threats like Riptide Wing and GMCs.

OIF is good but you'll still need the above.

You don't need OIF to assault out of deep strike, just to do it first turn.

Sometimes it's better to delay the reserves anyway.