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Oh yeah, Belakor is one of my favs. Why? because he can land and be useful in a pinch.

I also think he goes great with multiple units of Screamers. Cast Shrouding on himself and turboboost the Screamers near him. 2+ re-rollable Jinks. Eat your heart out Ravenwing!

Prior to the Curse of the Wulfen, this was my preffered list combo: Belakor and LoC, 2x 5 Screamers and 18+ invisible Hounds. Everything rushes forward down the enemies throat.

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I like both lists. I haven't got to try out the rehati war sect yet but I'm really itching to.

For the War Sect list I would suggest finding the points to upgrade your heralds disc to the oracular dais. That way should you need to null deploy you can plop the two units of blues and the Herald in ruins and have little fear of being tabled while guaranteeing Magnus comes in turn 2.

For the second list I would suggest dropping a mastery level off one of the heralds and get a unit of brimstones for nearly the same price and again skimming points somewhere for the oracular dais.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Saying it's "a much bigger threat" than FW does not make it so.

If you want to use it due to personal opinion, that's fine. It just isn't the best choice.

A LoC with Robes is a fine model, but it is not as good as FW, and can be one shot to a single unlucky wound if it fails a leadership check.

Make your own choice, recognizing it is a worse choice you're making due to personal decision is important, instead of trying to tell others it's better, when it is not.

Magnus has access to all the powers, and casts on a 2+, for sure. However, it's a force MULTIPLIER to have additional units that also have access to the same spells, allowing you to make use of your better, more important spells more often.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can already tell based on your previous replies that you're going to continue to disagree, which is fine.

Play how you wish.

You can say "I want a melee unit, and am deciding to use a LOC for fluff reasons", but that is not the same as "I'm using a great melee unit for melee reasons", because what you're actually saying is "I am paying 280ish points for a t6, 5w model that I need to land to melee with, and could then likely die that turn to bolters if i'm not lucky".

You take FW and I take a LoC and lets gets some combat going. who is likely to win?

Galef was talking about running a combat FMC with psychic abilities. FW does not fit that roll and never will.

 rawne2510 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Saying it's "a much bigger threat" than FW does not make it so.

If you want to use it due to personal opinion, that's fine. It just isn't the best choice.

A LoC with Robes is a fine model, but it is not as good as FW, and can be one shot to a single unlucky wound if it fails a leadership check.

Make your own choice, recognizing it is a worse choice you're making due to personal decision is important, instead of trying to tell others it's better, when it is not.

Magnus has access to all the powers, and casts on a 2+, for sure. However, it's a force MULTIPLIER to have additional units that also have access to the same spells, allowing you to make use of your better, more important spells more often.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can already tell based on your previous replies that you're going to continue to disagree, which is fine.

Play how you wish.

You can say "I want a melee unit, and am deciding to use a LOC for fluff reasons", but that is not the same as "I'm using a great melee unit for melee reasons", because what you're actually saying is "I am paying 280ish points for a t6, 5w model that I need to land to melee with, and could then likely die that turn to bolters if i'm not lucky".

You take FW and I take a LoC and lets gets some combat going. who is likely to win?

Galef was talking about running a combat FMC with psychic abilities. FW does not fit that roll and never will.

probably no one win as long as FW save at 2++ then if you say ok take a raw combat without psionic/rewards of course LOC will but in that case also a LOC without rewards and psy powers is a dead turkey every where you play...

Why would you take a LoC without rewards though. point for point a LoC with robes, Staff of Change and Lvl 3 is stronger with a better save than FW. better dealing with combat and better chance of the spells in Maelific that are needed. remember that this is with the knowledge that magnus is already in the list.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I accept that certain spells can be garunteed with FW is all the change spells. At least 1 summoning with the likes of prescience and psychic shriek if you want to.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I like both lists. I haven't got to try out the rehati war sect yet but I'm really itching to.

For the War Sect list I would suggest finding the points to upgrade your heralds disc to the oracular dais. That way should you need to null deploy you can plop the two units of blues and the Herald in ruins and have little fear of being tabled while guaranteeing Magnus comes in turn 2.

For the second list I would suggest dropping a mastery level off one of the heralds and get a unit of brimstones for nearly the same price and again skimming points somewhere for the oracular dais.

I've thought about that, but I'd really want a Pink horror unit with Icon and Instrument for that all to work. And the Oracles for the reserve re-roll.
The Oracles deploy as hidden as possible, maybe even buy as Bastion for the list just for them to hide behind.
Turn 2 the Pink Horror unit to comes in automatically using the Dias, then use it's Instrument to automatically bring in Magnus....off the Pink's Icon.

The problem is that changes the list majorly and I don't have all those models. With 8th around the corner, all projects involving getting new models has been halted.
The models I have available are:
-A single 100mm based giant bird model (converted new Loc model). Can be Sungam the LoC (Magnus 'counts as') or the Oracles LoC
-A single 60mm based 2 headed bird (converted prince model with feathered wings). Can be Fateweaver, a Tz DP or a LoC (though only if the above model is used as Sungam)
-A single 50mm based Daemon Prince. Can be used as Belakor or a Tz DP

So I can take 3 FMC and only 2 of them are 'birds'. So I could take:
-Magnus, FW & Belakor. That's too many relying on casting and not enough WC to go around
-Magnus, FW & Tz DP. Same as above, but the DP could give up its WC for the others
-Oracles and Belakor. Not bad

What I can't take is the Oracles & Magnus (and the requires DP HQ to bring Magnus)

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 rawne2510 wrote:
Why would you take a LoC without rewards though. point for point a LoC with robes, Staff of Change and Lvl 3 is stronger with a better save than FW. better dealing with combat and better chance of the spells in Maelific that are needed. remember that this is with the knowledge that magnus is already in the list.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I accept that certain spells can be garunteed with FW is all the change spells. At least 1 summoning with the likes of prescience and psychic shriek if you want to.

i meant no one will win that combat they just cant damage each oher

with rerolls I guess but the LoC can 1 shot FW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Galef. you could just use a basic sorcerer as HQ for magnus

 blackmage wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
Why would you take a LoC without rewards though. point for point a LoC with robes, Staff of Change and Lvl 3 is stronger with a better save than FW. better dealing with combat and better chance of the spells in Maelific that are needed. remember that this is with the knowledge that magnus is already in the list.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I accept that certain spells can be garunteed with FW is all the change spells. At least 1 summoning with the likes of prescience and psychic shriek if you want to.

i meant no one will win that combat they just cant damage each oher

I don't think a LoC vs FW debate is very productive. There are too many "what ifs". For example, you are proposing that FW has a 2++, which he would get from Grimoire.
That means you have to buy another model to hold Grimiore. If we are doing that, that why can't a LoC have a Herald sidekick with the other Grimiore?
I can't remember it's name, but it says that if your Warlord rolls all its powers on Change (which the Incursion allows) than your Warlord knows all of the Change powers.

So it is possible for a LoC to know all the Change powers....which is part of the argument that FW is better.
So if I really wanted a second set of all the Change powers, it could do it. It wouldn't even be hard. I would already include several Heralds.
With all the Horrors and Splits and summoning Pink Horrors though, I really don't think it is necessary to have more than Magnus to know the full set.

Which means FW is there for the re-roll and Warp Storm mitigation. Both things can be done by using an Incursion and the Tz Warp storm.
I will never admit that FW is the "best" choice, but he is the "easy" choice for sure. But I am willing to work a little harder to get an caster that is great in more than 1 phase of the game

 rawne2510 wrote:

@ Galef. you could just use a basic sorcerer as HQ for magnus

I could, but I feel that is a waste of points. They cannot cast Malefic without serious risk of Perils, they need more than just cultists to join (or at least a big unit of cultists) and they are not Daemons. I am trying to make this list a "Daemons" list as much as possible.

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They start off the board and come on turn 2-3 to hold objectives at the end. You roll on maelific in the hope of possession to summon a LoC back at the end when one dies.

I'd have to paly around with the points. If it gives me enough to add something significant, maybe.

I will start having a proper look at magnus and his croneys once the london GT is over as I am going incursion and oracles because I found in previous tournament where I have FW but no LoC showed me how much I needed a beat stick for some of the big stuff.

 Galef wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I like both lists. I haven't got to try out the rehati war sect yet but I'm really itching to.

For the War Sect list I would suggest finding the points to upgrade your heralds disc to the oracular dais. That way should you need to null deploy you can plop the two units of blues and the Herald in ruins and have little fear of being tabled while guaranteeing Magnus comes in turn 2.

For the second list I would suggest dropping a mastery level off one of the heralds and get a unit of brimstones for nearly the same price and again skimming points somewhere for the oracular dais.

I've thought about that, but I'd really want a Pink horror unit with Icon and Instrument for that all to work. And the Oracles for the reserve re-roll.
The Oracles deploy as hidden as possible, maybe even buy as Bastion for the list just for them to hide behind.
Turn 2 the Pink Horror unit to comes in automatically using the Dias, then use it's Instrument to automatically bring in Magnus....off the Pink's Icon.

The problem is that changes the list majorly and I don't have all those models. With 8th around the corner, all projects involving getting new models has been halted.
The models I have available are:
-A single 100mm based giant bird model (converted new Loc model). Can be Sungam the LoC (Magnus 'counts as') or the Oracles LoC
-A single 60mm based 2 headed bird (converted prince model with feathered wings). Can be Fateweaver, a Tz DP or a LoC (though only if the above model is used as Sungam)
-A single 50mm based Daemon Prince. Can be used as Belakor or a Tz DP

So I can take 3 FMC and only 2 of them are 'birds'. So I could take:
-Magnus, FW & Belakor. That's too many relying on casting and not enough WC to go around
-Magnus, FW & Tz DP. Same as above, but the DP could give up its WC for the others
-Oracles and Belakor. Not bad

What I can't take is the Oracles & Magnus (and the requires DP HQ to bring Magnus)

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Wait do you have to deep strike the Dais for it to activate? I forget the exact rules. I was just looking at the description in battlescribe and all it says is that you can choose a unit to automatically pass its reserve roll at the beginning of each movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohhhh nevermind. The unit you choose has to be of the Chaos Daemon faction which Magnus is not. I see.

Upon further contemplation (and seeing that a similar list won a GT earlier this year), I really think this is the better list:

___Rehati War Sect_____________
Magnus the Red
Tzeentch Prince w/ Wings, Armour, ML3, Spell familiar & Staff of Arcane Compulsion
Tzeentch Prince w/ Wings, Armour, ML3 & Spell familiar
Tzeentch Prince w/ Wings, Armour, ML3 & Spell familiar

___Daemon CAD___________________
Tzeentch Herald on Disc, ML3, Paradox
11 Blue Horrors
12 Blue Horrors

I can make the Herald my Warlord for the Tzeentch Warlord traits and Tz Warp Storm table.
Hopefully getting the +1 invul for all Tz daemons in 9".
I know that if I make one of the DPs the WL I would not need to roll for the Warp Strom, but not only on some of those results pretty good, but the Herald would be easier to hide to deny Slay the WL and the Tz WL traits could boost this list amazingly.

I would attempt to Summon a unit of Pink Horrors or Screamers as soon as possible for the Herald to join.

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Do you need the armour on the DPs as 1 buff will pretty much get them a 3++

 rawne2510 wrote:
Do you need the armour on the DPs as 1 buff will pretty much get them a 3++

Yes the Armour is needed. Remember that Daemon Princes have "Daemon of Tz" not "Mark of Tz". So they only have a 5++. Blessing of Tz would only bump that to a 4++, unless the Blessing used is Curse Earth, which is how most players are getting that to 3++ (and one of the reasons I am making the Herald my WL for a re-rollable chance to get the +1 invul for all Daemons of Tz trait)

The problem is that means I have to roll Curse Earth AND all the DPs need to be in range. WIth only 2 rolls on Malefic per Prince (because 1 roll has to be on Tzeentch), the chances are there to not even get CE at all.
The Armour gives them a guaranteed 3+ re-rolling 1s against smaller arms fire and means that they don't have to stay so close together (although still need to be in range of Magnus)
It will suck against Grav-heavy armies, but not having the Armour and not rolling Cursed Earth is far worse.

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fair enough.