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nedTCM wrote:
So are chaos just going to remain short?

Or are they going to steal the Primaris powers.

sounds like chaos will instead be super charged by chaos.

that said apparently the cursade will be partly the tool by which the new geneseed is spread, so I'd not be AT ALL suprised to see chaos trying to raid this stuff to aquire their own Primairs Marines. ESPECIALLY as it's an upgrade. I mean a proven way to make a chaos Marine "better, faster, stronger" that'd be great, a chaos warlord would love to have that so he could dole out enhancements to his loyal cronies.

Brother captain Squattius, are you ready for your additional wound injection?

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
All the art I've seen show that the Nu-Marines have the same proportions as the old marines, so either they're suppose to have ginormous heads that aren't depicted on the models, or that the nu-marine scale isn't an indication of their genetic superiority, but the new scale for marines in general.

looking at the scale creep for t sons. i think they are the new marine size. and i like it.

i dont think lore wise they are supposed to be bigger. at least no indication that that is what happens to them.

nedTCM wrote:
So are chaos just going to remain short?

Or are they going to steal the Primaris powers.

I saw a comparison picture in another thread of old 1ksons vs new ones, and they're significantly bigger. They may eventually standardize new csm kits to this size, although that's just speculation at this point. Not sure how much smaller they'll be compared to the adeptus restartes, though.

 Desubot wrote:

 3orangewhips wrote:
Via GW facebook stream. That pretty much answered that.

EDIT: I went back and listened again. It's real. They are going to slowly phase out retro marines.

Embrace the future, brothers and sisters.

Dont see how its a full on replacement.

Marines still need to be made, they probably still need to be trained and gain a butt load of experience so there will always be a stock of "normal" marines running around. and there is always the potential that the upgrade booster shot is for the most part limited or slow to produce.

i for one however am glad that they are not a new fresh from the vat marines but rather upgrades. it doesnt cheapen what marines are and did and i find that cool.

Marines will still need to be made, but if you can make an old marine or the new hotness, why not make the new hottness. Fluff wise, it makes sense to build the new marines. As a chapter takes losses, it has to replace them, so why not replace them with the newer better marines? The new ones look like they can be vat grown, which in some ways would be a lot better then having to take from a general population, expecially if that population gets decimated.

From a business perspective, I would imagine that the plan is to phase out the current Space Marines over the next few years. GW has already said they plan on releasing more types of marines, as well as vehicles for them. My bet is, the story line will have Chaos starting to flood the Galaxy, Space Marine chapters all across the galaxy will suffer heavy losses, and in an effort to keep things going, they replace more and more marines with the new ones. Over time, the only 'old style' marines that will be left will be vets that survive.

Poor chaos marines. Left out in the cold once more. The great boon of the gods is tragic. First they lure them away from the emperor of mankind. Then they make them throw away their best guns and transports. They replace them with subpar pre-heresy options and other poorly performing demonic options. They are given transports that eat them while offering no bonus to their usage. And now, they are cursed to witness their former brothers transform into super marines, And all they got for serving the dork gods is a foot growing out of their backside and a crummy mark of chaos. Well at least we know why chaos marines are such edgelords.

But seriously. Its pretty hard to to take on the idea that the forces of the chaos marines are the biggest threat to mankind. And now its getting even more obtuse. GW, your hero is only as good as your villain. At this point, fluff wise they need to defeat chaos already so they can move on to larger more credible threats, such as the jokero.

Table wrote:
Poor chaos marines. Left out in the cold once more. The great boon of the gods is tragic. First they lure them away from the emperor of mankind. Then they make them throw away their best guns and transports. They replace them with subpar pre-heresy options and other poorly performing demonic options. They are given transports that eat them while offering no bonus to their usage. And now, they are cursed to witness their former brothers transform into super marines, And all they got for serving the dork gods is a foot growing out of their backside and a crummy mark of chaos. Well at least we know why chaos marines are such edgelords.

But seriously. Its pretty hard to to take on the idea that the forces of the chaos marines are the biggest threat to mankind. And now its getting even more obtuse. GW, your hero is only as good as your villain. At this point, fluff wise they need to defeat chaos already so they can move on to larger more credible threats, such as the jokero.

did you miss the part where they strongly implied that the plague Marines being released would be a match for these guys? with Primaris Marines GW is gonna start feeling comfortable giving specialist chaos troops a real dose of the chaosroids.In 8th edition it's looking like speciality troops like plague marines, bezerkers etc are no longer gonna be "lol we're marines with a single USR added to us!"

BrianDavion wrote:

Table wrote:
Poor chaos marines. Left out in the cold once more. The great boon of the gods is tragic. First they lure them away from the emperor of mankind. Then they make them throw away their best guns and transports. They replace them with subpar pre-heresy options and other poorly performing demonic options. They are given transports that eat them while offering no bonus to their usage. And now, they are cursed to witness their former brothers transform into super marines, And all they got for serving the dork gods is a foot growing out of their backside and a crummy mark of chaos. Well at least we know why chaos marines are such edgelords.

But seriously. Its pretty hard to to take on the idea that the forces of the chaos marines are the biggest threat to mankind. And now its getting even more obtuse. GW, your hero is only as good as your villain. At this point, fluff wise they need to defeat chaos already so they can move on to larger more credible threats, such as the jokero.

did you miss the part where they strongly implied that the plague Marines being released would be a match for these guys? with Primaris Marines GW is gonna start feeling comfortable giving specialist chaos troops a real dose of the chaosroids.In 8th edition it's looking like speciality troops like plague marines, bezerkers etc are no longer gonna be "lol we're marines with a single USR added to us!"

Well that will be good for all of the Burgle boys, but what about the rest of us? Go Burgle or go Corn or get out!

But seriously, once more. I am not upset about the power swing that may or may not come. Im used to being behind most of the armies I play against and will still continue to play chaos marines because it is the only faction, visually that does not bore me to tears. Im more mocking it from a fluff point of view. And just as chaos was seeming to become a half way credible threat with the nuking of Cadia, we get super marines to lolroll Abbadon back into the eye. And blank girls to oust those pesky Tzeentch marines. Once more, where is the drama, where is the looming grim dark. All we have is a mary sue main faction and some saturday morning cartoon villains. While larger and far more credible threats are pushed into the void of inactivity.. The whole setting has lost its grim dark. Its now a teen power fantasy with a splashing of edglelords.

I think the cool thing to think about is what this opens up in story telling the Primaris Marines and Regular Angels of Death would possibly have a beef between one another.

Like in my chapter (The Wanderers) are not so accepting of outsiders. I think it could create a divide within the chapter, even among the leadership whether or not to become Primaris Marines. In fact, I wonder if the black library will touch on how the space marines were essentially replaced. And that these new marines regard their older versions with a sorta animosity or hatred. My biggest question lies what it would do to the marines and their culture as a whole. I wonder if there would be a few marines who are too stubborn to become the new Primaris Marines based on principle. See this is the problem when you get hobbyists talking about the lore because we ask questions that lead a lot of open-ended-ness that just leads to more questions!

For example my chapter is very solitary and their culture is built on them surviving the dumbest and horrible events. They were deployed on the crusade, and the entire spear tip of the crusade and its commanding officers were slaughtered by a shape-shifting alien race. They then spent years (Three decades) fighting the Shape-shifter aliens before finally defeating them. Well after losing half their chapter's terminators and the entirety of the crusade. The big thing though is they survived amazingly because of their survivalist tactics and how they adopt the bodies and armor, weapons anything they can find to fight. (this was based off a campagin that we ran in my area). But anyway if that was their culture of being weaker than the average space marine, what would that do to them to have Primaris marines that are better than normal marines come into their structure all of a sudden? What if the Primaris Marines find the Hierarchy and having been essentially raised on mars differ on their thoughts and philosophies to my chapter's original culture?

I mean what are the repercussions of telling a race of people that they are the best of the best only for them to discover that they themselves are not actually the best of the best, but the 2nd best? Would that cause severe depression or a lack of purpose for the large teams of space marines? Will the chapters be willing to accept it unanimously or rather die? Or will the regular marines just fear their eventual replacement, or possibly the regular space marines become a rank before the primaris marines... similar to scouts to space marines, but instead it is the primaris marines? Possibly the Cultures of Adeptus Astartes will not accept it into their hierarchy and instead have it as a separate entity within their chapter? Or will it be an eventual replacement that destroys the entire identity of some space marine chapters?

I don't know what about you guys? I actually like the idea of essentially the marines feeling a bit depressed of feeling like they are being replaced, and the psychological effect of being 2nd best.

Anyone have Images of the inital leaked Primus Marines? also anyone have any side by side pics of the new 1ksons/rubric marines to a regular csm/sm.

So we have some decent side by side comparisons

(edit)
Found This while looking for model comparisons, all that is missing is one of the new rubric csm. image spoiler-ed for size


Found the first leaked image of a nu-marine next to an old ig

 fox-light713 wrote:
Anyone have Images of the inital leaked Primus Marines? also anyone have any side by side pics of the new 1ksons/rubric marines to a regular csm/sm.

So we have some decent side by side comparisons

One second... here ya go...




Also from id4chan this is their comments...

While Primaris Marines are created from the gene-seed of all the Loyalist Primarchs, it is unknown how some of the more extreme genetic quirks of each bloodline will manifest in them. We could see anything from Blood Angels with cute little Cupid wings to Flesh Tearers with terrifying vampire fangs to translucent skinned Raven Guard to even blacker skinned Salamanders to Lamenters with greying temples and bags under their eyes to Space Wolves with fluffy little tails. Anything is possible.
Primaris Marines seem to be made and trained exclusively on Mars by Cawl and Guilliman. They may bear the blood and colors of Raven Guard, Salamanders, Blood Angels or Space Wolves, but they may know next to nothing of the ways and culture of those chapters if Guilliman hasn't let in other members of those Chapters in to help (what little they might be taught could be skewed by Big G’s biased point of view), and are destined to stand uncomfortably apart from their brothers (even in chapters that fully accept them) just as the Terran marines did in the Legions.

However, this mostly just applies to the initial batch. Guilliman is also providing every chapter with the ability to make Primaris Marines of their own, so future generations will be fully immersed in their respective chapters. And even then, regular Marines can be upgraded to Primaris which will help with preventing the loss of beloved characters.

In terms of actual combat experience, these guys are jumping into the deep end as green as an ork. They may be bigger, stronger, faster, and have better armor and weapons, but that doesn’t change the fact that the marines they are reinforcing are their seniors by centuries, and under normal circumstances, a Primaris Marine should still be a mere initiate. But then again, in "normal" circumstances they wouldn't have been made in the first place...

Chaos will be interested in the Primaris Marines. The Chaos Gods are not happy with the existence of the Primaris Marines, and are creating some warp charged warriors to counter them. Fabius Bile will definitely be interested in them as well, and the possibility of Enhanced Primaris Marines, converting Chaos Space Marines into Chaos Primaris Marines, or even converting himself into a Primaris Marine are should be very worrying to the Imperium. And come to think of it, the cover image of 8th Edition does seem to partially show a Plague Marine in Tacitus armor...

I would also raise the point I raised previously of the psychological effect it would have on the rest of the chapter not just the primaris marines?

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
Can? Does that mean they all are? I liked the idea of the being tube-born Thunder Warriors who were detached from their humanity and had the potential to become blood-thirsty killers and threats to their own allies.

Maybe it's just my Primaris Marines then...

Oh, not a chance, I will be having a chapter of Primaris Marines. from a fluff writing point of view, I quite like the idea of a blank slate chapter who will develop their 'character' on the battlefield. The almost have the feel of Star Wars clone troopers in that regard. I am planning on going down the route of them being totally detached from humanity that they are designed to protect, with absolutely no regard for social niceties when interacting with other forces. They will also have a superiority complex, believing that they are superior in every way, even to other Space Marines who are, in their eyes, obsolete.

If there is a Primaris Chapter likely to turn to chaos, its likely to be these guys lol.

From what the fluff tells us, these Primaris are still in the grey territory of scientific advancement. Neat, but not 100% safety tested yet. Basically prototypes. They don't have a good idea how mutations could affect this new Primaris gene seed, so yeah, prototypes often do go very wrong.

In the face of this, I think its a fair call to say that many space marines should just let it be, and keep going on with Mk8 as they're use to. Placing centuries of experience into the hands of prototype tech is not a good idea on a company level.

In terms of actual combat experience, these guys are jumping into the deep end as green as an ork.

So just cheap, expendable cannon fodder then
Long live OldMarines.

Okay. GW wants to sell us a new sort of Marines. Larger and better. Get your old Marines shelved.
This is part of GW's ''business model' for 8th ed.

I personally enjoy looking at the game stats and comparing it to the fluff. Cawl, etc. spent 10,000 years...making a 12% better Space Marine. I'd fire that guy. I can see it now...

Roboute settles in his large bronzed dais. Cawl wheels out a huge platform covered in crushed velvet from the age of Terra. He dims the lights, and mood music begins. A ten minute dialogue about the power and righteous might of the "old" Astartes and the dawn of a new era of unstoppable Imperial might...

Cawl yanks a cord, "My feared lord, I present to you...the Primaris Marine!"

(wildly underwhelmed Roboute) "So...it's a Space Marine?"

 Galas wrote:

Basically, this was the only form that GW could do a relaunch of the Space Marines range in a bigger scale without going bankrupt.

And also give them 30" range guns

Does this mean Space Marine players aren't allowed to complain about my Pulse Rifles now?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Basically, this was the only form that GW could do a relaunch of the Space Marines range in a bigger scale without going bankrupt.

And also give them 30" range guns

Does this mean Space Marine players aren't allowed to complain about my Pulse Rifles now?

No no, we're still allowed to complain. Union rules you see