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 Galef wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So a Plague Marine gets hit with a Lascannon. AP -3 means it only gets a '6' armour save and fails. Now you roll D6 damage. A '4' is rolled for damage, now the Plague marine has to roll 4 'not' FNP rolls.

Yeah, seems clunky. Like, why bother when you know you'll fail at least 1 of those rolls and die.

I don't think you save wounds. I think you save damage.

Obviously we don't know yet, but every time I have seen them mentioning the save with multiple damage weapons it seemed like they were implying that it's

Roll to hit > Roll to Wound > Roll Damage > Save against each damage > FNP like effects.

But I suppose it is Possible that it's

Roll to hit > Roll to Wound > Roll Save > Roll Damage > FNP like effects.

GW has clarified in the FB replies about the Battle Cannon. You roll damage AFTER a failed save. So a Lascannon having 1 shot means you will only every kill 1 model.
If you took saves after the damage roll, you could potentially kill more than 1 model, which is contrary to what they have said.

-

It also makes sense that way. If your armor stopped the wound, then the wound didn't do any damage, no matter how much damage it does

Considering how their 3+ armor will also offer a 5+/6+ against things that previously popped, they overall have a resilience boost. Admittedly, that's true for most things this edition.

As for wounds, we could look at the starter box, which should hypothetically have similar point value. 20 pox walkers, 7 plague marines, 3 HQ and what I assume is a mobile fire support MC. Compare that with the 10 standard primaris, 5 plasma primaris, 3 jump primaris, plus 4 HQ. Honestly, it looks a bit weighted towards the primaris marines if we assume DG have one wound, though the bloated drone is the other wild card. That and the fact we don't know just how much better primaris assault and plasma will be compared to normal, as well as how their HQs compare to DG HQs.

I'm hoping primaris HQs at least don't make normal HQs look bad by comparison.

SilverAlien wrote:
Considering how their 3+ armor will also offer a 5+/6+ against things that previously popped, they overall have a resilience boost. Admittedly, that's true for most things this edition.

As for wounds, we could look at the starter box, which should hypothetically have similar point value. 20 pox walkers, 7 plague marines, 3 HQ and what I assume is a mobile fire support MC. Compare that with the 10 standard primaris, 5 plasma primaris, 3 jump primaris, plus 4 HQ. Honestly, it looks a bit weighted towards the primaris marines if we assume DG have one wound, though the bloated drone is the other wild card. That and the fact we don't know just how much better primaris assault and plasma will be compared to normal, as well as how their HQs compare to DG HQs.

I'm hoping primaris HQs at least don't make normal HQs look bad by comparison.

I thought the starter box always skewed more in marines favor points wise though?

Oh, then ignore me, just assumed it'd be roughly even.

Well, colour me unimpressed. Sad to see things like feel-no-pain etc. still in existence. Such a lame, gamey mechanic.

Couple that with my hatred of re-rolls and I might not be running my DG force in 8th, or will run it as Chaos marines. Zero enthusiasm for that kind of rules writing - shame, since I've been pleasantly surprised by most of the decisions made for 8th.

All sounding great!!! What a time to be a Death Guard player!
I am most excited about the seperate Nurgle termies box.

 Rippy wrote:
All sounding great!!! What a time to be a Death Guard player!
I am most excited about the seperate Nurgle termies box.

I know, right? I have always wanted a Nurgle army of some kind, and this looks to be the time to get into it! Plus, both Primaris Marines and Death Guard fit my personal fluff as it carries into the current fluff, though I know not many other might be worried about that as much.

I wonder what all Chaos Marine models I still have floating around my project boxes to add in...

This is the first time in over 20 years that a release has made me want to buy a second army for 40k.

I was willing to wait on the full multi-part kit for the primaris stuff (want to do them all up in pre-heresy Dark Angels schemes), but the Death Guard are making me think I may actually grab the boxed set and start a DG force. They bring back fond memories of the old metal Death Guard that I liked the look of back in 2nd Edition. They aren't all fantastic (the psyker is a little goofy looking), but the basic troopers look amazing.

I'm surprised, I had kind of gotten used to GW being a company I didn't really want to give money to. This has been a surprising turn of events either way.

I want like 3 of those box sets.

so I have 40 cultists, 20 zombies, and 20 mutants i converted from orkz and crypt ghoul parts.


I am so excited to have legit Plague Zombies available now.

I just also hope that marked/unmarked Joe Cultists can still be useful too.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
so I have 40 cultists, 20 zombies, and 20 mutants i converted from orkz and crypt ghoul parts.


I am so excited to have legit Plague Zombies available now.

I just also hope that marked/unmarked Joe Cultists can still be useful too.

what is the easiest and cheapest way to convert joe cultists into pox walkers?

Plague marines are gonna be a pain to shift off midfield objectives, and with -1 to hit it will be even worse. Leman russ tank commanders are sure gonna hate them. Orks will just sigh and shake their heads.

 Galef wrote:
GW has clarified in the FB replies about the Battle Cannon. You roll damage AFTER a failed save. So a Lascannon having 1 shot means you will only every kill 1 model.
If you took saves after the damage roll, you could potentially kill more than 1 model, which is contrary to what they have said.

-

No. It would just mean rolling every lascannon one at a time. Lascannon shooting at W2 models:

roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to damage(4 wounds), 4 saves. Then remove model if it got rid. Then proceed with next lascannon.

Cluncy as hell which is why it's good it's save first. Which is why this is baffling. Hopefully article was mistaked and DR is still before damage. That or they need to have rule that damage over W of models are discarded before DR. Otherwise it is one weapon at a time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Well, colour me unimpressed. Sad to see things like feel-no-pain etc. still in existence. Such a lame, gamey mechanic.

Couple that with my hatred of re-rolls and I might not be running my DG force in 8th, or will run it as Chaos marines. Zero enthusiasm for that kind of rules writing - shame, since I've been pleasantly surprised by most of the decisions made for 8th.

Rerolls are kinda essential for d6 based game to have granularity. You either need 2d6 rolls(hard for stuff like saves as that forces one at a time) or rerolls to have odds of anything but 16% gaps.

And with 8th ed trimming down 2+ and 6+ rolls away mostly rolls are so samey now that without rerolls...It's VERY samey everywhere.

That special gun seems like a different spin on a plasmagun. Losing a point of str and ap in exchange for bumping rapidfire 24" up to assault 2 24"

I wonder though, if the models we've seen so far are snapfit and don't have that blight launcher as far as we can see... there has to be another Plague marine set later, right?

I really really need that Terminator lord with the saw axe!!!!

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I wonder though, if the models we've seen so far are snapfit and don't have that blight launcher as far as we can see... there has to be another Plague marine set later, right?

There are Plague marines, and Terminators in the teaser we havent seen yet, almost certainly implies a plastic box for both of them.

I,m wondering if they plan to release poxwalkers separately, or like cultists, we have to wait nearly 2 years for a sprue portion.

And the easiest way to convert cultists into poxwalkers would be adding bone protrusions and green stuff everywhere!

Now, I've been using my Cultists as Zombies since 6th, theyre just painted with Nurgling flesh so they can be Zombies or just really sickly cultists...
The actual Zombies are the terribad Vampire Counts ones, painted up in the same colors as the Cultists.

These new ones are awesome, and maybe by spreading them out through the mobs i can get a real individualized shambling horde look.

I think DG look and sound great(if horriby rotten can be great?) I was feeling a little miffed about poxwalkers adding more men to their units without any mention of having to pay extra points for them but after some consideration I think it will be just fine and it's perfectly fluffy.

I'm interested to play against DG now, I haven't had a chance yet.

I also like they gave Typhus a specific role in buffing Zombies instead of just access to them. Here's hoping Typhus is still awesome of course.

 digital-animal wrote:
I think DG look and sound great(if horriby rotten can be great?) I was feeling a little miffed about poxwalkers adding more men to their units without any mention of having to pay extra points for them but after some consideration I think it will be just fine and it's perfectly fluffy.

I'm interested to play against DG now, I haven't had a chance yet.

Aren't poxwalkers basically cultists with fnp, w/o any weapons and extremely slow movement? They ain't gona kill much. And are likely to mostly be used purely defensively. So, it's just a little fluffy rule. Typhus can make them more killy but there's no hint of increasing their speed. I'd expect it to be 4 or even less.

But being immune to morale is a huge thing in 8-th. And they'll be one of the best point holders around.

Necrosius' Zombies had this rule for ages and were overall much better than codex zombies - still nobody seems to have used them .

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
GW has clarified in the FB replies about the Battle Cannon. You roll damage AFTER a failed save. So a Lascannon having 1 shot means you will only every kill 1 model.
If you took saves after the damage roll, you could potentially kill more than 1 model, which is contrary to what they have said.

-

No. It would just mean rolling every lascannon one at a time. Lascannon shooting at W2 models:

roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to damage(4 wounds), 4 saves. Then remove model if it got rid. Then proceed with next lascannon.

Cluncy as hell which is why it's good it's save first. Which is why this is baffling. Hopefully article was mistaked and DR is still before damage. That or they need to have rule that damage over W of models are discarded before DR. Otherwise it is one weapon at a time.

I think the problem is people are assuming the new FNP acts as a save. It doesn't appear to, going off what we know. Saves go off before damage is rolled, fnp goes off after.

Assuming this, the actual order would be: Roll to hit, to wound, and saves, all be done at once. Then you roll damage for the weapons and fnp each individual shot to see the final damage of each shot, then assign damage as normal (with all damage from a weapon going to a single model, but following rules for assigning damage to a target till it dies more than likely.)

This is the most streamlined variation I can think of, as the only individual rolls needed are the final fnp rolls being done per shot. Which isn't that bad, how many multi wound weapons are going to be fired at a time, and how many of those will get to the damage stage?