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Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 Shandara wrote:
Paying 20 points for a single shot S8 missile is slightly under the top though.


Exactly. The cost makes it clear IMO. Hellstrike missiles are only a marginal improvement over 10-point hunter-killer missiles, so the only explanation that makes sense to justify paying double the cost* is that hellstrike missiles are an infinite-ammunition weapon. Add in the fact that the identical weapon on the Valkyrie is very clearly not a one-shot weapon and there is no suggestion at all that the other hellstrike missiles should be one-shot weapons. The entire argument, aside from applying "this is how it worked in 7th" to a weapon that has clearly changed in 8th, is that the plural 's' is intended to make it an entirely different weapon with additional rules that somehow didn't make it into print. I don't think this is plausible at all.

*And yes, at least one unit can choose either. The Vulture can take two hellstrike missiles or six hunter-killer missiles. The only way that choice makes sense is if it's between a two-shot weapon that can be fired every turn and six one-shot weapons that have better alpha strike but lower damage over time. If hellstrike missiles are a one-shot weapon then it makes no sense to even consider taking them on a Vulture.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 yakface wrote:
In contrast, the Imperial Armour version is called a 'Hellstrike Missile' (singular) and then models are able to take quite a few of them (like 8 on the Marauder Destroyer, for example). Yes, you're still paying 20 points for each of them, but the potential damage output of being able to fire 8 Hellstrike MIssiles every turn (on top of the model's other weapons) just seems quite OTT.


Compare the Marauder Destroyer's firepower with infinite hellstrike missiles to the Baneblade variants at a similar point cost and it's not that impressive. If the bomber only gets one shot with its missiles then it's a joke, and the tanks outclass it by a decisive margin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/28 08:50:58


Laying low in a blood filled trench
Kill time 'til my very own death
On my face I can feel the falling rain
Never see my friends again

In the smoke, in the mud and lead
Smell the fear and the feeling of dread
Soon be time to go over the wall
Rapid fire and end of us all


SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD ATLAS 
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





IA: Forces of the AM

COVENANT OF TZEENTCH
Any INFANTRY unit with this keyword gains +1 to hit when firing Overwatch.

Except the rules for overwatch say you hit on a 6 regardless of modifiers. So this rule literally does nothing. It needs to say "Any INFANTRY unit with this keyword gains hits on a 5+ when firing Overwatch."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/31 13:43:07


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), and T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 BaconCatBug wrote:
IA: Forces of the AM

COVENANT OF TZEENTCH
Any INFANTRY unit with this keyword gains +1 to hit when firing Overwatch.

Except the rules for overwatch say you hit on a 6 regardless of modifiers. So this rule literally does nothing. It needs to say "Any INFANTRY unit with this keyword gains hits on a 5+ when firing Overwatch."


This is already handled by the rule of "specific overrides general". A rule that explicitly says "this modifies overwatch" is clearly an exception to the general rule of modifiers not applying to overwatch.

Laying low in a blood filled trench
Kill time 'til my very own death
On my face I can feel the falling rain
Never see my friends again

In the smoke, in the mud and lead
Smell the fear and the feeling of dread
Soon be time to go over the wall
Rapid fire and end of us all


SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD ATLAS 
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





 Peregrine wrote:
This is already handled by the rule of "specific overrides general". A rule that explicitly says "this modifies overwatch" is clearly an exception to the general rule of modifiers not applying to overwatch.
I wouldn't have asked it if that was the case. The rule for overwatch says "regardless of modifiers" and the rule granting the modifier doesn't change that fact, it just gives the modifier.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/01 16:00:52


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), and T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Renegade Malefic Lords cost 30 points (with no weapons upgrades), but are listed as power level 4. Is one of those numbers a mistake?

Can a player use the Adeptus Astartes stratagem called "Only in Death Does Duty End" and the Grey Knights stratagem with the same name in the same phase (and can you use them on the same character), or are they the "same" stratagem?

The Adeptus Astartes version costs 2 command points, references Adeptus Astartes keywords, and references use of the stratagem in conjunction with a banner ability. The Grey Knights version costs 1 command point, only effects grey knights characters, and the text is several lines shorter.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion






Two questions about Swooping Hawks:

The Sunrifle ability states that "If a unit suffers any unsaved wounds from this weapon, your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls until the end of the turn". This suggests that if you cause an unsaved wound on an enemy unit they must subtract 1 to hit only in the rest of your player turn. Is this correct? Or should it be that the enemy unit has to subtract 1 to hit until the end of their next turn?

Can you clarify how the Swooping Hawk Grenade pack works. If I have a unit of 5 Swooping Hawks fly over a unit 20 models I roll 5 dice for the Grenade pack? If I have a unit of 5 fly over a unit of 3 models I roll 3 dice for the Grenade pack?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/03 09:52:48


~400pts Asuryani painted new colour scheme
~7500pts Asuryani assembled some with old colour scheme
 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

BRB/Core Rules - Overwatch

The overwatch rule applies an additional restriction that units with an enemy model within 1" cannot be selected to fire overwatch. Does the limitation that charged units cannot be selected to fire overwatch if an enemy unit is within 1" apply to models with rules such as Steel Behemoth and Imperial God Engine which grant the ability to shoot normally if an enemy unit is within 1"?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 10:01:54


Ryza = Azyr
Mind = Blown 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Is the wolf guard battle leader with jump pack really only 3 points more expensive than the one without the pack?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Death Guard Codex is missing points cost for a Demon Prince with wings (or alternatively, that option is included on the datasheet in error)?
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Codex: Craftworlds

Are Autarchs built using the index datasheets still legal? How do we calculate the point cost of such Autarchs? Do they use the updated rules for Path of Command and Banshee Masks?

Autarchs and Hemlocks have abilities (Forceshield and Spirit Stones) that have the same name as wargear options, but do not actually have the wargear in question. Do they have to pay points as if they were equipped with it?

The Blazing Star of Vaul can be given to any non-named character with "a shuriken pistol or shuriken catapult", but no character has a weapon named "shuriken catapult". Should this include avenger and twin shuriken catapults?
   
Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




Sorry if this offtop, but can we use email answers about rules clarifications as valid FAQ embodiment?
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





EricDominus wrote:
Sorry if this offtop, but can we use email answers about rules clarifications as valid FAQ embodiment?
No, see Tenants of YMDC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since GW decided to once again be useless:

Several codexes never define what a "Named Character" is. The SM, DG and IG codex does, but the AdMech and GK codex calls them "Unique units", while the Craftworlds and Chaos Space Marine codexes lists them as "Units".

It would be very nice to have an explicit unambigous ruling that states that "Named Characters" is synonymous with "Units that are Unique and 1 per army Units".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/29 18:36:13


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), and T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





• The rules for re-rolls (pg 178) say that re-rolls happen 'before modifiers are applied', which was also backed up with the answer given in the 'designer's commentary' PDF. But how does this policy work with re-rolls that require the player to know whether something has succeeded or failed before being able to re-roll the dice when modifiers are involved? For example, an Ultramarine model with a BS 2+ is firing a heavy weapon on the move against a unit of T'au Stealthsuits in cover (-2 to its rolls to hit), but is also within 6" of Roboute Guilliman, and so will be able to re-roll failed hit rolls. If modifiers are always applied after re-rolls then that means this model would only be able to re-roll any '1's rolled, even though the rolls of '2' & '3' will ultimately end up being misses. Is this really the correct way to play?

Quite simple really. Re rolls happen BEFORE modifiers. That means you have to do the entire re roll step BEFORE modifiers, including the re roll. So lets say your BS is 3+. You have -2 to hit like your example. You roll a 1,2, and 2. You re roll all the dice, because you have not applied modifiers yet, and the re roll step happens before that. Then you roll a 4,5,6. Hey! Look at that! I hit with my attacks! But then you apply with the modifier, -2, so you actually only hit with the 5 and 6. So you get 2 hits, and the 3 doesnt count at the end.

I have no idea why the gaming community could not grasp a simple concept laid out and confirmed by GW. Follow the rules and your life will be easier!

Hope this clears it up so you dont have to wait for GW response.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/30 14:54:51


 
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




Following the changes in the Astra Militarum codex, should the Vendetta have the same "Roving Gunship" rule as the Valkyrie?
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

BRB Matched play Tactical reserves;

Do units embarked on a transport - and thus removed from the battlefield - count towards the 'at least half the total number of units ... must be set up on the battlefield' stipulation ?

Ryza = Azyr
Mind = Blown 
   
 
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