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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Another odd debate was someone made the claim a unit of 20+ Models gains an extra attack through the new rules. As unit sizes are determined during the building stage is this ability permanent regardless of casualties? There are now abilities that restore models up to its original unit size for example
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Reecius wrote:

Did anyone have any specific questions I will try to pop in from time to time to address them if that sounds good.

Cheers for the offer! I'm pretty excited to get stuck in with my boyz, but there are a couple of things I wonder if you could give me some insight into.
First, where has my Ardboyz' armour gone? It seems that armour upgrades are a thing of the past in 8th, and I'm aware there isn't *technically* an Ardboyz kit, but with regard to the former, why not just make them a separate unit datasheet, and second, there aren't painboy/mek biker models either, and they made it in. I can't imagine I'm the only Ork player out there who's ploughed the time and effort into assembling boyz in using all the most heavily armoured bitz from the various kits, so I'm pretty disappointed these guys haven't made it into the index.

Second, the way the <clan> keywords work seems to penalise warbands comprising Orks from more than one clan. I get why this is the case with, for example, space marines' <chapter> keywords, in order to avoid stacked buffing shenanigans, but it seems a bit at odds with the fact that, in the background and on the table, Ork warbands/tribes have frequently been presented as being composed of members of multiple clans. It seems the way these keywords work actively encourages less flavourful warbands, so I was wondering if you were able to offer any insight into the thinking behind this.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of questions thrown your way, but as an Ork player who's been with the army throughout its various ups and downs ever since the Rogue Trader days, I'd be chuffed as heck if you could find the time to respond!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 22:22:34


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Reecius wrote:
@JohnU

No, not yet, sorry =(

@JimOnMars

It is reroll failed charge rolls. I believe the definition on pg. 178 isn't meant to directly interact with Ere We Go in the way you present it, but I will see if we can confirm that. I see the logic, there.


Just remember only two types of logic roun' 'ere, Choppa and Big Choppa!


si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Yo! Happy to help.

Transports are more expensive than you are used to but generally are way harder to take out, are faster (generally) and serve different purposes.

Some armies use LOTS of transports, some don't. It really depends on the interaction between the unit and the transport.

I have run all Trukk armies many times, it totally works as Ork Boyz are so much better. The Trukk (and always take the Wreckin Ball!) absorbs overwatch by charging first, the Boyz come in after.

However, transports can be really swingy. As damage has big ranges of variability (lascannon may do 1 damage, may do 6) they sometimes melt instantly and sometimes just wade through damage all game, it's hard to predict.

Generally though, I love my Trukk Boyz. Typically I jam up, lose a few, and then charge in with enough Boyz to wreck face. One game though, Frankie obliterated my in my own deployment zone and 5 of 6 Trukks rolled the dreaded 6, exploded, then did mortal wounds to everyone, lolol. Learned my lesson on deploying too close to one another but all those explodes results are not common.

Battlewagons are amazing. The Deff Rolla makes them actually very good in melee (as silly as that sounds) and are quite durable. I often put shooting units in them like Lootas or Tank Bustas as they are protected but can move into shooting range. Leave them Open Topped for that, obviously.

Orks do great vs. Screens. They have the tools to melt them. Burna Boyz in a Trukk or Battlewagon, Lootas, Shota Boyz (combo them with Da Jump!), etc. And, just charging them, honestly. They have so many attacks they cut through screen units like Cultists and Conscripts quite easily.

   
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[DCM]
Probably Drunk




Colorado Springs

Big Choppa vs Klaw. Is the flat 2 damage from the BC generally sufficient for most squads. I feel like there's a lot more points to spread around if I don't have to give PKs to all my Nobs.


Also slightly unrelated but do you guys have dimensions for your ITC Ork terrain buildings? I need a couple more LOS blocking pieces for my board.

No seriously, I'm probably drunk. 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@Gungo

Current unit size.

@Nazrak

Not a problem, I am happy to help! It's a great day for Ork players =)

'Ard Boyz, not sure why they're not in there, honestly. Maybe in the Codex? The indexes are to give rules for people to get rolling, as GW has stated, not really comprehensive rule sets.

The Clan Keywords will probably make more sense as time goes by. And you can take a mixed Ork army, just have 1 detachment by say, Goffs, another Bad Moons, etc. The Clans stick together in their detachment and buff each other, but still work together in the larger army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Pedroig,

lol, nice.

@JohnU

I prefer the Big Choppa to the Klaw, now. The Klaw is awesome on Warbosses, etc.

The Ork ITC Terrain is quite big, which peice were you curious about?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 22:55:18


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Probably Drunk




Colorado Springs

I'll probably do one each of the Hall, Barracks, and Stronghold, but if you can give me a general idea of the size of the Great Hall I can figure out the rest.

Thanks!

Edit: To stay relevant to the thread. Did you find yourself with any preference as far as backfield harrassers go? (Koptas,Trakks, Kommandos, etc)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 23:01:28


No seriously, I'm probably drunk. 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

The Orc Great Hall is has a roughly 11" by 10" footprint. It's really big! Great for blocking LoS in 8th ed (which is mega important).

I like them all, but my favorite was Skorchas! They can outflank and are tough little buggers.

My one complaint with orks in 8th is their lack of deployment options. But, all things considered, that is a minor complaint.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Houston

 Reecius wrote:
The Orc Great Hall


Orc Great Hall you say?




Warcraft 3 aside, would you suggest keeping on foot if there are a large amount of boyz? I don't really know what to do with my couple of trukks and my nob and meganob squad if I want them to benefit from auras..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 23:41:56


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Haha, that may or may not have been an inspiration in the name =P

And you can run mixed for sure, it does not have to be all or nothing anymore as vehicles have the same stats as monsters as infantry, etc.

Having some Boyz in trukks to get upfield and run interference is great, while mobs of boyz come in behind.

All foot Orks totally works too as your auras make you damn tough. With a 5++ and a 6+ FnP, the Boyz can walk through damage like nothing. Just be sure to keep a Warboss or two nearby to avoid morale damage (they're cheap).

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Probably Drunk




Colorado Springs

That'll work quite nicely. Thank you sir, got my order in.

No seriously, I'm probably drunk. 
   
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Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Hey, thank you for your business!

   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Reece!

First, thanks for all your team's work in making 8th edition. I'm pretty excited to finally be getting into Warhammer with the new edition.

How do you tend to build your Kan Walls at 2k? How much of each walker do you take and what supports them well?

For Trukk lists, how many trukks of boyz do you tend to take in a 2k list? What support units do you take? Do the aura units matter as much (Painboys and Waagh banners)?

Lastly, how useful are Power Stabba Nobz in the new edition? Can they find a home in some lists? What list archetypes lend themselves well to them?

Thanks!

   
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Screamin' Stormboy




I-D-A-H-O

@Reecius
Glad to have you here - let's talk Walkers.
You've praised the Stompa - what did you do or enjoy about using the Stompa? How did you make it work, what did you fill it with, what did you surround it with?
The Orkanauts - Mork, Gork, one of each, or multiples of one type? The Gorkanaut looks like the choice for the risk averse crowd with no gets hot nor high saves and the Morkanaut offers a giant bubble but risks killing itself. What was your favorite way to put them to use?
And Deff Dreads! Were they better body guards for larger walkers or did you send them out on their own with their own screen crew? 2 or 4 Klaws? And what for ranged?

Esq.
I believe in the Blitz Brigade.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




@reecius is it intended for a bomb squig to be embarked on something like the firestorm redoubt and fire all the emplaced weapons on a bs2+
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Reecius wrote:
@Gungo

Current unit size.

@Nazrak

Not a problem, I am happy to help! It's a great day for Ork players =)

'Ard Boyz, not sure why they're not in there, honestly. Maybe in the Codex? The indexes are to give rules for people to get rolling, as GW has stated, not really comprehensive rule sets.

The Clan Keywords will probably make more sense as time goes by. And you can take a mixed Ork army, just have 1 detachment by say, Goffs, another Bad Moons, etc. The Clans stick together in their detachment and buff each other, but still work together in the larger army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Pedroig,

lol, nice.

@JohnU

I prefer the Big Choppa to the Klaw, now. The Klaw is awesome on Warbosses, etc.

The Ork ITC Terrain is quite big, which peice were you curious about?

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my grumbles! Fingers crossed the Ardboyz make a return soon. I suspected there might be some more to come on the Clans down the line; I'll just have to work out how to get my lads from different clans to play nicely in the meantime.

Feeling vindicated in my decision to give various nobz in my warband big chollas now. Although to be honest, I never thought they were as much of a waste of time as some would have had it previously.
   
Made in au
Mutilatin' Mad Dok





Australia

Nobz have the rule 'Keepin' Order', but I'm more interested in the Nobz with Waaagh Banner. They're half the points of the nob squad, and they also have that rule.

Would you voluntarily purchase a unit just for that ability? 1/6 chance that things don't die for 75 points is a pretty steep investment. For 75 points you could invest in a lot better things. You need to save units equivalent to 75 points or more to make up the points.

I feel that Waaagh Banner orks are a hit and a massive miss. It being in a regular nob squad could have the potential to be an invaluable anchor for green tide boyz.

Thoughts on the competitiveness of this new rule welcome.

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*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

You realize that the Waagh Banner Nob is a Character right? So he can't be shot unless etc etc. I don't see the hit ans miss of that. +1th for units w/in 6" is easily worth the points, IMO anyway.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
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Nasty Nob






wait, are boss nobs characters? can they make a heroic intervention move for free?!

ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





nope. "Sergeants" are not characters. Characters are the "ICs" of 8th.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

 davou wrote:
wait, are boss nobs characters? can they make a heroic intervention move for free?!
Not that I've seen, only the Waagh Banner Nob. I'm not even sure what Orks are supposed to do about the Boss Nob in units. I think the idea was for orks to pay Nob price for that model (maybe?), but that's really not how the rules are written, at least not the points list part, where there's no entry for 'Boss Nob' and the Nob entry reads 3-10 models. Or maybe it's priced into the Ork Unit IDK.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
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Dakka Veteran




@gungo @reecius Are you sure about that it's current size for the mob, instead of just starting size?

I could see it going either way, but the wording is different than the Killa Kan wording, which is why I ask. It would also be a huge nerf to the mob; no benefit unless you take 30 models, and even then, lose 10 and it's cancelled.
   
Made in us
Parachuting Para-Commando




San Bruno, CA

What are everyone's thoughts on warbosses? Multiple, cheap ones to spread out the WAAAGH aura?

Also @ Reecius: I absolutely love bikerz, but the loss of the smoke cloud seems to really hurt their durability. How did you find them in test games?
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd






 Reecius wrote:
Hey guys, Davou asked me to pop in and answer some questions about Orks in 8th ed, which I am happy to do.

Just to alleviate some concerns, orks are bad ass, like, super good in 8th. In our games, they are very, very competitive.

You have mobility options, mortal wounds if you need them, great melee, morale control, and shooting, too.

Things are different than you may be used to but in general the classic list archetypes work quite well. You can go Speed Freaks, Kan Wall, horde, etc. and they work quite well.

Did anyone have any specific questions I will try to pop in from time to time to address them if that sounds good.

Oh, and feel free to join us for a live bat rep tomorrow at 5pm PST on our Twitch Channel. I will be playing Orks vs. Chaos: https://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv


So 'ard boyz were not expected to disappear? I hope they come back... I have 3 squads of 30 of them. Would like to use them as 'ard boyz since the new cover for us basically means large mobs probably never have cover unless the terrain piece is huge.

When I first read the rules for KFF and painboy I thought the rules were similar, but now I look at them and I think the big difference is that for the KFF units have to be wholly inside the 9", which isn't a big problem since we can now clump up, but the painboy says when a unit within 3" loses a wound that the painboy could prevent it. It doesn't say the unit needs to be entirely within that range, and in fact doesn't say the model needs to be either. So lets say a model in a unit that isn't within 3" of the painboy is the one selected to take the wound, but the unit does have models within 3 inches of the painboy, is that ok to roll the save for that boy who is probably at the back and is taking the wound so as not to remove from the front?

Also, is the inability to take a power klaw on the waaagh banner nob a mistake given that the only banner nob they sell has a cybork power klaw/fist? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Ork-Nob-with-Waaagh-Banner It just so happens that my other banner nobs all had power klaws also because they are the older metal ones that held the banner in one hand and could put a klaw on the other arm.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 04:10:03


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






@reecius it seems like Standard Nobz and Gitz are in some way designed to utilize ammo runts at bullet sponges when needed to soak big hits (grab a runt and throw him in front of a krak missile). Also it seems ammo runts can add to the unit size for Mob Rule which when combined with runts not counting for purposes of casualties taken makes Nobz/Gitz really resilient to morale issues. Is this the case or is wound allocation onto runts more difficult and in general how well do foot Nobz and Flash Gitz play in 8th?

Also for Kanz it seems the mighty gortzooka isn't quite as mighty given the lack of any relentless on vehicles and wounding needing double the strenght vs toughness to wound on 2s. Are the zookas a lost cause or do they still resemble the wound firehose that they use to be? Also do lots of solo kanz or big units of them tend to work better?

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Question does anyone know which plastic set I need for the forgeworld kommando upgrade set. Hopefully it's basic boys as I have an extra sprue of those from shadowwar armeggedon.

Also ya the flashgits having 10 ablative ammorunt wounds and a full squad of 20 for mob rules is pretty crazy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 04:35:32


 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





Georgia

 Vankraken wrote:


Also for Kanz it seems the mighty gortzooka isn't quite as mighty given the lack of any relentless on vehicles and wounding needing double the strenght vs toughness to wound on 2s. Are the zookas a lost cause or do they still resemble the wound firehose that they use to be? Also do lots of solo kanz or big units of them tend to work better?


That's what I'm wondering. I actually bought extra grotzooka bits just because of how good they are, generally. I'm not as sure, now, since I mostly relied on the templates so they'd hit. I might just go with Big Shootas and Rokkits, now- time will tell. Also, solo kanz probably aren't worth it. Even with all the vehicle buffs, they're still really fragile. I'd have multiple units of 3.

What I'm most curious about is powerklaws vs big choppas, now. Powerklaws are S12 on warbosses, which is ridiculous, but it's at -1 to hit and will be extreme overkill for pretty much any infantry. Big choppas will be S8, which is getting the 2+ on MEQs. And, of course, there's the points issue. I definitely think there is going to be more of a mix, now. I'm definitely going to model a warboss with a Big Choppa, but PKs on nobz no longer seems as necessary as it used to.


"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.

6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





fe40k wrote:
@gungo @reecius Are you sure about that it's current size for the mob, instead of just starting size?

I could see it going either way, but the wording is different than the Killa Kan wording, which is why I ask. It would also be a huge nerf to the mob; no benefit unless you take 30 models, and even then, lose 10 and it's cancelled.


When you put your boyz into a battlewagon, you are pretty unlikely to lose one before they disembark, so you'd have that +1 attack on the charge them as well. Also note that there is almost no downside fielding mobs of 30 now, as templates and blasts are gone.

Otherwise, it's pretty much the theme of the ork army - the less orks the weaker they get. However, your opponent would have to take all your mobs below 20 to remove the buff from them, which means that he is splitting fire between units instead of wiping one out.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





It's really weird that the Nob with WAAAAGH Banner can't make any loadout changes. Not even a big choppa. His banner is invaluable to Power Klaw wielders and blobs of infantry though.

Played a casual test match just to get a feel for the rules and a few units, ran 1600pts Outrider detachment.
Today I learned:

Painboy's healing is awesome since it doesn't prevent charging nor healing someone who is already in combat. Healed a Warboss that took 4 wounds from Draigo for a full D3 wounds, then charged Draigo with the Painboy and finished him off in the second round of combat The 5" maximum move stipulation doesn't hurt at all if he stays the people he'll be healing/providing invulns for anyways.

Stormboyz are awesome. Brought a blob of thirty and managed to keep two land raiders from doing much by multicharging. Their options were to fall back or disembark, and my friend opted to fall back a couple turns in a row. I was dumb and didn't bring Zagstruck or even just a Boss Nob with a klaw though so they kinda just sat there until some Paladins and Voldus got out and had their way with the unit.

Stikkbombs are hilarious when you have a large blob now that they're D6 shooting weapons.

EDIT: Nevermind, reread the Relic rules. My friend cheated, but oh well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 06:40:59


 
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





Georgia

 Jidmah wrote:
fe40k wrote:
@gungo @reecius Are you sure about that it's current size for the mob, instead of just starting size?

I could see it going either way, but the wording is different than the Killa Kan wording, which is why I ask. It would also be a huge nerf to the mob; no benefit unless you take 30 models, and even then, lose 10 and it's cancelled.


When you put your boyz into a battlewagon, you are pretty unlikely to lose one before they disembark, so you'd have that +1 attack on the charge them as well. Also note that there is almost no downside fielding mobs of 30 now, as templates and blasts are gone.

Otherwise, it's pretty much the theme of the ork army - the less orks the weaker they get. However, your opponent would have to take all your mobs below 20 to remove the buff from them, which means that he is splitting fire between units instead of wiping one out.


This is what I'm most excited about trying. Footslogging simply didn't work in 7th because models were removed from the front. Now that we can use single HQs to spread buffs between multiple squads, I'm really tempted to try breaking out a footslogging list again. It still probably won't be as good as a vehicle list, but it might at least be usable, now.

All I know is I'm gonna need more orks.

"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.

6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
   
 
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