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 Thargrim wrote:
What happens when you have to pee though? And you play at the store for hours. I guess you could piss in an empty water bottle in your car....only problem is leaving your models/stuff unsupervised while you tinkle.

In my case we disappear across the road to use the toilets in the pub or pizza place opposit.

I suspect if there's any truth to that story it's being massively embeleshed, my local encouragies people to sit down and build conversions in store and my Grotesques/Talos conversion from Crypt Horrors/Storm Fiends have always been well received there.

 Imateria wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
What happens when you have to pee though? And you play at the store for hours. I guess you could piss in an empty water bottle in your car....only problem is leaving your models/stuff unsupervised while you tinkle.

In my case we disappear across the road to use the toilets in the pub or pizza place opposit.

In Finland that would often require you to either buy something from pub or pizza or hand out coins(good luck if you are like me and don't have any! I virtually never have any real cash with me)

Yes, they're pretty much standard retail mantra. The Little Red (not Black) Book is supposed to be much more ...interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That Escapist post reads like bs. Or some kernels that have been true in various places over the years all bundled up into one spot and ...shall we say, lovingly embellished.

The really suspicious thing about it is the anonymity of it. If he'd named a specific store - and why would you not name and shame? - then others who frequent the same store could back him up, even on other forums like this one. Of course, it's also much easier to call bs on a specific, as opposed to a nebulous unnamed GW store.

Of course, people will be all over it because they believe what they want to believe, and tend not to want to think critically because that might interfere with the narrative that they've forged for themselves around GW and its practices...

In my gw (paris 12) never had any issues for that, even employees do conversions, with green stuff or whatever and they are exposed (as long if it's partially based with gw stuff of course, they will not expose other brands)^^.

Yeah, that's bollocks, i used to travel around with work and when i went anywhere i'd always love to go to the local GW and look in the cabinets at the managers and the regular's models and conversions and some of them are stunning.

Also just look in white dwarf, if this was their policy they wouldn't have a Blanchitsu section!

Most of that article is true, I've went to two different GW stores before - one upheld most of those rules, the other was extremely lax. The lax GW closed and its manager escorted out. Both places seemed okay with conversions - but no Pig iron heads, or anything third party.

The other GW? I was told to cover up the "Battlefoam" symbol on my case.

 Stevefamine wrote:
Most of that article is true, I've went to two different GW stores before - one upheld most of those rules, the other was extremely lax. The lax GW closed and its manager escorted out. Both places seemed okay with conversions - but no Pig iron heads, or anything third party.

The other GW? I was told to cover up the "Battlefoam" symbol on my case.

So you where forced to use GW dice and tape measures? The covering up the battlefoam symbol isn't the same as the article and is a reasonable request

terry wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Most of that article is true, I've went to two different GW stores before - one upheld most of those rules, the other was extremely lax. The lax GW closed and its manager escorted out. Both places seemed okay with conversions - but no Pig iron heads, or anything third party.

The other GW? I was told to cover up the "Battlefoam" symbol on my case.

So you where forced to use GW dice and tape measures? The covering up the battlefoam symbol isn't the same as the article and is a reasonable request

No, the GW Manager at that time actually was fine with "bring your own ruler" - but not fine with custom symbol dice relating to a local guy giving/selling local dice to players at the FLGS. So no custom dice with symbols unless they were the forgeworld/GW promo ones. One of the dice types were Hammer/Sickle Red Gold dice. I can understand that.

Most players would unpack the foam out of it's case into a bread box or a cardboard box and walk into the store with their army.

terry wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Most of that article is true, I've went to two different GW stores before - one upheld most of those rules, the other was extremely lax. The lax GW closed and its manager escorted out. Both places seemed okay with conversions - but no Pig iron heads, or anything third party.

The other GW? I was told to cover up the "Battlefoam" symbol on my case.

So you where forced to use GW dice and tape measures? The covering up the battlefoam symbol isn't the same as the article and is a reasonable request

No it's not.

Would you kick someone out of your Apple store for whipping out their Android phone? Hey, if you own any Morrison's bags don't even think about shopping at Asda!

A lot of the replies in this thread of people saying this is a flat out lie or has no kernel of truth to it have clearly never been in a store run by tyrannical twatwaffles. I have. I have had stuff said to me that would have got any other employee sacked (or severely reprimanded) in any other retail location. I can believe almost everything in the OP (I do not however believe it is company policy). I have witnessed a area manager ringing round his stores to tell them to take large monster bases off sale due to the Spanish translation ( ).
Because a lot of people need a place to play, they suck these things up. I've seen a manager whose catchphrase was literally "Get out my store"; who also said I was terrible at converting (great delivering of service there!). I've was asked "Is that why you're still a virgin?" by a staff member after nerding out over something in GW. Heaven forbid you get excited about GW products in a GW store. Looking back I could've raked that fether over the coals to corporate but I didn't know any better and more importantly (as with a lot of these stories) I needed a place to play.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I know that my local GW doesn't allow people to play Bloodbowl or Horus Heresy on site. The manager's rationale is fairly straightforward: He's told to use the table space to advertise the products sold in-store, corporate does not have them (or even allow them to) sell Forgeworld models save for the occasional special promotion, and since corporate does not care if they sell thousands of dollars in space marines online due to someone wanting to play them in this store he's effectively hurting himself every time someone walks in and is interested in them or doesn't get to play his AoS army because all the tables are full up with resin power armor.

Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I visit my local GW store from time to time, and my konversions are always happily received by the store manager.

He is a bit strict about no swearing, but in fairness, there are often younger folks around, and he's trying to keep it PG for the kids because it is still a toy store and he's trying to run a business. Fine with me.

I've certainly used non GW dice/measuring tapes without issue in the past.

Though, in fairness, I haven't played in that store in a while, mostly because it's kind of small. But pretty much everything in that post, other than no swearing, sounds like complete rubbish based on my experiences.

 Mangod wrote:
So, I was on the Escapist earlier today, when I stumbled across this thread:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.960256-The-state-of-Games-Workshop

Now, I can understand if GW don't want you playing with Privateer Press-branded dice or tape measure, for example, but to demand that nothing but GW-brand gear be used, not even allowing for generic dice that couldn't be indentified? Banning conversions because "official kit", completely flying in the face of the very idea of "your dudes"?

Somebody please tell me that this is just a ridiculous anomaly, or has anyone else actually experienced this as well?

Unless there is some second verification- The post is crap. Late to the party and full of old well worn GW Tropes that don't work, anymore....

GW stores don't work like this anymore. In fact, aside from the "One man Band" routine, I've been to two in .... er... KY, and in VA, and they have been exceptional. People are great, the store, even if small as a box, were very well laid out and they had a whole whopping TWO! tables to do anything with. WOOT WOOT! TWO TABLES!!!

Add Salt to taste....

 Coldhatred wrote:
Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

The owner (and the previous one) is also annoyed at the company's position on forge world. I've seen kids save up money looking to add that one awesome terminator or variant crisis suit as a centerpiece model only to be told they can't actually order them in the store (and surprise! massive hidden fees!) the customer is always disdapointed and never, ever feels inclined to spend that hard saved cash on stock that's present in store. 9 times out of 10 they balk at coordinating with other hobbyists at the store (between the fact that it's often a matter of parental permission, the fact that I'm pretty sure at least a couple of regulars would just pocket the money like total scum, and the fact that we're all actually really bad at networking (never telling someone they're planning an order and assuming they're not interested because they don't run up to you and bring it up.))

I don't think GW, or brits in general, really appreciate just how rare and coveted forge world is out here.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I visit my local GW store from time to time, and my konversions are always happily received by the store manager.

He is a bit strict about no swearing, but in fairness, there are often younger folks around, and he's trying to keep it PG for the kids because it is still a toy store and he's trying to run a business. Fine with me.

I've certainly used non GW dice/measuring tapes without issue in the past.

Though, in fairness, I haven't played in that store in a while, mostly because it's kind of small. But pretty much everything in that post, other than no swearing, sounds like complete rubbish based on my experiences.

The Glendale location is 10/10. Great manager. I stopped by there on vacation

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


And in a fair few cases actually did, though not by diktat from GWHQ, just at the discretion of managers. It's still GWHQ's responsibility, however, since they refuse to do anything about these cases and they're the ones setting the often unacheivable sales targets that tend to be what drives managers to such dickery in the first place.

But, let's say this is legit. The typical response to people complaining about GW policies in GW stores is to remind the person that:

1) GW stores are for making sales, not for being community hang outs

Then GW needs to drop this "hobby centre" guff - open standard retail hours, remove tables and have only temporary demo-pods for new releases or promos, no more painting station, no more games nights. IE, people can make the "they're stores for making sales" argument when GW starts acting like a proper modern retail sales chain rather than half-measure FLGS limited to one company's products. As it stands, even with the move to 1-mans and the more "polished" target-focused attitude they've been pushing staff towards over the last few years, the company is still keen to create the impression that they're more than "just" a shop where you buy things, so they don't get to run away from that whenever it suits them.

Not necessarily. A hobby center could simply be a place to buy hobby products. But really, stop it. You know damn well GW stores are sales portals and that's it. Maybe that will change in the coming months or years, as GW pivots more towards a customer-friendly approach, but for the last decade at least, GW stores are where you go to buy. Playing is secondary. Just because YOU think that more services should be provided by a GW shop doesn't mean they have to conform to your wishes.

That's incredibly disingenuous. You, I, GW, and everyone else right down to the hobo at the local bus station all know exactly what GW are trying to convey and invoke when they refer to their stores as "hobby centres", and it isn't "this is a place to buy things and nothing more". And I have no opinions on what services GW "should" offer, I merely believe they should either live up to their own marketing or else drop the pretense.

 Yodhrin wrote:

But honestly, with the level of engagement GW has been making with the community and the changes they have been making to known problems within their operations, I find the entire complaint suspect and rather far-fetched.

I have no problem believing it. This is a company that has no issues inviting people to come along and play at their shops, then telling people they can't use some units or even their whole army because even though they're GW products the store can't sell those specific items. If they'll stoop to "hey, lovely expensive resin tank there, but sorry you have to pack it away because we've arbitrarily decided models from that specific part of our company don't actually count as being sold by us, because I'm falling a bit short on my targets this month", I have no problems seeing some self-serving store or regional manager banning conversions for things that already have a "proper" model to try and boost their numbers a bit, it's exactly the sort of short-termist thinking that retail-sales culture encourages.

And I think this is the heart of the matter.

Whether or not someone believes these claims probably lies with how they view GW in general. If they view GW in a favorable light these claims likely seem absurd because the claims don't conform to their view of GW. If they think GW is the boot-stomping evil empire of gaming then of course they will believe any sort of junk posted online that confirms their bias.

Ah yes, the old "haterz" argument, a great deflection when you can't actually deal with the point being raised. Believing this story is possible doesn't require bias of any kind, I pointed out an example of similar behaviour from them in the past right there. Ignoring that the company has previously engaged in very similar actions, otoh...

 Captain Joystick wrote:


I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

Ah, my bad, I read part of your post completely wrong. My reading comprehension has been terrible today! Sorry!

 Captain Joystick wrote:

The owner (and the previous one) is also annoyed at the company's position on forge world. I've seen kids save up money looking to add that one awesome terminator or variant crisis suit as a centerpiece model only to be told they can't actually order them in the store (and surprise! massive hidden fees!) the customer is always disdapointed and never, ever feels inclined to spend that hard saved cash on stock that's present in store. 9 times out of 10 they balk at coordinating with other hobbyists at the store (between the fact that it's often a matter of parental permission, the fact that I'm pretty sure at least a couple of regulars would just pocket the money like total scum, and the fact that we're all actually really bad at networking (never telling someone they're planning an order and assuming they're not interested because they don't run up to you and bring it up.))

I felt this frustration back when I was a store manager as well, it's absolutely silly that GW can't find a way to account for the sale of Forge World products in an equatable way. (That's what I was told by a lot of old-time managers, that the reason it hadn't happened was because there was basically an internal fight upstairs about how the sales would be accounted for.)

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I don't think GW, or brits in general, really appreciate just how rare and coveted forge world is out here.

Preach, Captain Joystick! Add to that, the ability to actually go to Warhammer World on a lark if you were so inclined. The only thing that annoys me about the USA is distances, I should immigrate back to the UK, sorry Dad, Great Grandfather had a nice idea at the time! (All the more galling since he could apply for citizenship as a grandson of a british citizen whereas I cannot. *sigh*)

Woah, major off topic. Anywho. . . *sidles into the background*

I've played at two GW owned stores before. Only a couple times in each, just to check it out.

One store was really nice. I have an extensively converted WWI tank used as a pre Heresy land raider that I got compliments for, but asked politely not to field. They did however turn a rather blind eye to conversion bits and other manufacturers models as long as they blended in well enough as to not be noticed by the casual passer-by.

The other store, not having seen me before, let me know ahead of time that they had a no-3rd party bits policy, a no-tablet policy (this was before GW digital codexes), and a "minimum 50% model must be GW product" policy for scratch-builds or conversions for units that did not exist yet.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

They are counted if you order in the gw store, they got computer in here to order online.

From what I have researched very little is actually dictated from up high so if any of these things are true it is an idiot store manager who thinks that's how things should be probably because they are new to the Hobby themselves or have never played before managing the store. My own store manager does a lot of questionable things and always explains it as being it's from corporate, but everything I have read is that gw wants store managers to make the store their own essentially, within reason of course. He also had zero experience with the game or I doubt even heard of it before he manage the store. For example the bathroom thing is because there is an open room right next to it that has all the store product despite the fact of there being a locked door leading to a storeroom in the back of the store past the bathroom that could be kept locked during business hours with zero problem. In many cases I think the no bathroom policy is because the sole employee doesn't want to have to clean it

I think there's generally a "No conversion if there's a model" rule, meaning you can't use a troop box to bash up a commander and so on. It's not impossible for a store to take it a bit too seriously and taking that to mean you can't use a LR as a Battlewagon.

It does vary wildly from store to store - some will let you away with anything, others won't. Just depends on the manager and how much his boss is bothering him about targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

little-killer wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

They are counted if you order in the gw store, they got computer in here to order online.

But they aren't counted if you order at home and collect in store.

Herzlos wrote:
I think there's generally a "No conversion if there's a model" rule, meaning you can't use a troop box to bash up a commander and so on. It's not impossible for a store to take it a bit too seriously and taking that to mean you can't use a LR as a Battlewagon.

It does vary wildly from store to store - some will let you away with anything, others won't. Just depends on the manager and how much his boss is bothering him about targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

little-killer wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

They are counted if you order in the gw store, they got computer in here to order online.

But they aren't counted if you order at home and collect in store.

Nop, i asked to a seller, and they don't count, that's stupid but whatever ^^

little-killer wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
I think there's generally a "No conversion if there's a model" rule, meaning you can't use a troop box to bash up a commander and so on. It's not impossible for a store to take it a bit too seriously and taking that to mean you can't use a LR as a Battlewagon.

It does vary wildly from store to store - some will let you away with anything, others won't. Just depends on the manager and how much his boss is bothering him about targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

little-killer wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
Bolded emphasis mine. Yes, but no. The problem is that any sales NOT going through the physical till of the GW store does not count towards the stores sales, and thus the GW Manager's sales quotas (and the ability to keep his job), even if a customer orders online and has the order shipped to the GW store, that sale counts towards the webstore and not towards the GW store. Just thought I'd clear that little bit up.

I DO agree that the behavior is harmful to the company, as a whole, but it won't change until GW starts to see their retail stores as a sunk cost rather than a full-on sales arm.

I thought that the online sales weren't counted for the physical store was common knowledge, that's what I was referring to.

But yes, I think we're on the same page here.

They are counted if you order in the gw store, they got computer in here to order online.

But they aren't counted if you order at home and collect in store.

Nop, i asked to a seller, and they don't count, that's stupid but whatever ^^

Yup that was my point. I remember when I was a store manager, a huge order of new space marine stuff arrived when Space Marines got a new release, it was well into the $500 range. It hurt, but it's not the customer's fault, it makes sense from a customer-facing point of view that if you are ordering for store delivery then the store would get the sale. Granted I wasn't the best store manager, I can't be a pushy salesman, and my store was recognized as the worst placed store in the entire NA market, so I was a little frustrated with it all.

I cannot speak for any other locations, but my "local' (45 min away) GW store is great. I'm there weekly, and yeah, we are asked to keep the swearing down, and have at least 51% of a model be GW parts, but my store is laid back and friendly over all. It is my preferred place to play actually.

The manger is a stand up guy, and it helps that he has been running a gaming club for years before he got this job. He cares about the community and his customers and it shows.

Are some of you saying that if show up with my kitbashed honor guard (made mostly from stern guard and vanguard parts) that there is actually a policy that I shouldn't do that?

 Stevefamine wrote:
Most of that article is true, I've went to two different GW stores before - one upheld most of those rules, the other was extremely lax. The lax GW closed and its manager escorted out. Both places seemed okay with conversions - but no Pig iron heads, or anything third party.

The other GW? I was told to cover up the "Battlefoam" symbol on my case.

So you wrote that article? How would you know if it's true or not? You've been to two different stores? Wow! As for these GWs where you're making claims - name and shame. Not more vague claims please, about "rules" that aren't actually rules.

dosiere wrote:
Are some of you saying that if show up with my kitbashed honor guard (made mostly from stern guard and vanguard parts) that there is actually a policy that I shouldn't do that?

My whole army is kit bashed. That would make them lose money. I would never comply to such garbage.

It's not particularly believable, every GW manager I've ever met loved conversion projects/cool proxys. I even know one who greenstuffed zombies

The Escapist isn't really a fantastic source - especially not an unverifiable anecdote on their frankly low-quality forums.

I remember awhile back when Yahtzhee, one of the Escapist's premier reviewers, made a blog post discussing why he didn't like 40k. While the post itself wasn't terrible, the reaction was one of utterly gleeful delight about some notion of a big internet spat occurring over the post. Unsurprisingly, no one outside of the Escapist forum actually cared.

So basically this is a very typical case of someone trying to get attention and start some sort of bandwagon/circlejerk thread where the stories and rumours posted get increasingly far-fetched.

So, from what I'm getting from you guys, GW apparently lets stores have a very generous amount of autonomy... which will occasionally result in some complete tosspot acting like the store is his own personal kingdom?

It's not often I see what I'd consider arguments in favor of more corporate micro-management.

 Mangod wrote:
So, from what I'm getting from you guys, GW apparently lets stores have a very generous amount of autonomy... which will occasionally result in some complete tosspot acting like the store is his own personal kingdom?

It's not often I see what I'd consider arguments in favor of more corporate micro-management.

All I can say is that at my local GW, the manager had no trouble with my Vespid squad being composed entirely of bugs from the Infinity game. He just asked that I didn't paint non GW models at the paint bar.