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At least locally, games are more likely to be in whatever system has the 'new' thing going on. I honestly don't think there's much cause for concern; 40k just got its new edition (and it is very, very close to AoS) and so people are drawn to it, expect interest to shift again when AoS gets another new faction or a campaign.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
At least locally, games are more likely to be in whatever system has the 'new' thing going on. I honestly don't think there's much cause for concern; 40k just got its new edition (and it is very, very close to AoS) and so people are drawn to it, expect interest to shift again when AoS gets another new faction or a campaign.

I would agree but AoS never got this effect, it was big for like...a week maybe 2 then died out and turned into 40k again.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The other problem I see with AoS is that, who the gak is the target audience? Like not trolling here really wanna know who were they trying to appeal to with AoS, it sure as hell was not fantasy players.

40k Space Marine players. Why do you think they invented and then pushed the Stormcast Eternals so hard?

I'd agree to that in part in their appeal but they're also appealing to fans of high fantasy knights and even Dark Souls players since they have extravagant baroque armor, serve a God-king, lose their humanity upon respawning, have lightning and faith based magic and ride dragons made from a highly intelligent one that betrayed it's fellows (the God-beasts) to help the God-king.

Dark souls 3 supports the image further as there are golden winged knights with face masks and a hallowed king who rides a storm drake while fighting you upon a storm (ride the storm!).

As a dedicated fantasy player AoS pulled me right in with it's fantastical setting with limitless possibilities. The realm of life battleplan map was enough to make me fall for the setting.

Anyway, agreed to AoS being on the upswing once GW focuses on it again. Hopefully something nice pops up with the GH2 release like more battletomes.

Baron Klatz wrote:
but they're also appealing to fans of high fantasy knights

I am guilty of enjoying this trope. Oddly enough I don't particularly enjoy Space Marines while I do find Stormcast rather interesting. Lord Relictors for instance are suddenly something else and more than Space Marine's Chaplain. Other imagery that you've mentioned is also quite appealing, the warding lanterns are also an element that I quite like. I don't think I'm in majority, since old WHFB seem to have large dislike for the Stormcast and Marine players seem largely uninterested in them.

So far I am enjoying AoS setting and only wish more people gave it a chance, either the lore or the game. I feel AoS is more of a fantasy tale than the old world was.

Baron Klatz wrote:
I'd agree to that in part in their appeal but they're also appealing to fans of high fantasy knights and even Dark Souls players since they have extravagant baroque armor, serve a God-king, lose their humanity upon respawning, have lightning and faith based magic and ride dragons made from a highly intelligent one that betrayed it's fellows (the God-beasts) to help the God-king.

Dark souls 3 supports the image further as there are golden winged knights with face masks and a hallowed king who rides a storm drake while fighting you upon a storm (ride the storm!).

As a dedicated fantasy player AoS pulled me right in with it's fantastical setting with limitless possibilities. The realm of life battleplan map was enough to make me fall for the setting.

Anyway, agreed to AoS being on the upswing once GW focuses on it again. Hopefully something nice pops up with the GH2 release like more battletomes.

Uhh, if you ask most Dark Souls players what their favourite armour is they're more than likely going to say "Elite Knight set." Just about every player of DS/BB I know (and I know a lot) was in love with the Empire and Bretonnian designs, but despises AoS. They went from quite grounded, gritty and reasonable designs in WHFB to something closer to World of Warcraft.

So far I am enjoying AoS setting and only wish more people gave it a chance, either the lore or the game. I feel AoS is more of a fantasy tale than the old world was.

People will give it a chance when they build on it, but right now it still has the depth of a puddle. Before the Defence Force run in, no, one paper book in a boxed game and a handful of novels (almost all focusing on Sigmarines) does not make for an in-depth setting. The whole thing just feels so empty, probably a result of them trying to turn it into "dude you can have whatever you want in the Realms it's so open lmao" though at least with stuff like the Khador Overlords they seem to have realised their mistake and begun actually trying to put some thought into the world building. No doubt the Crucible 7 PnP RPG will do wonders for it, just because Warhammer lore is always at its most in-depth and interesting when somebody other than Games Workshop is writing it.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
I'd agree to that in part in their appeal but they're also appealing to fans of high fantasy knights and even Dark Souls players since they have extravagant baroque armor, serve a God-king, lose their humanity upon respawning, have lightning and faith based magic and ride dragons made from a highly intelligent one that betrayed it's fellows (the God-beasts) to help the God-king.

Dark souls 3 supports the image further as there are golden winged knights with face masks and a hallowed king who rides a storm drake while fighting you upon a storm (ride the storm!).

As a dedicated fantasy player AoS pulled me right in with it's fantastical setting with limitless possibilities. The realm of life battleplan map was enough to make me fall for the setting.

Anyway, agreed to AoS being on the upswing once GW focuses on it again. Hopefully something nice pops up with the GH2 release like more battletomes.

Uhh, if you ask most Dark Souls players what their favourite armour is they're more than likely going to say "Elite Knight set." Just about every player of DS/BB I know (and I know a lot) was in love with the Empire and Bretonnian designs, but despises AoS. They went from quite grounded, gritty and reasonable designs in WHFB to something closer to World of Warcraft.

So far I am enjoying AoS setting and only wish more people gave it a chance, either the lore or the game. I feel AoS is more of a fantasy tale than the old world was.

People will give it a chance when they build on it, but right now it still has the depth of a puddle. Before the Defence Force run in, no, one paper book in a boxed game and a handful of novels (almost all focusing on Sigmarines) does not make for an in-depth setting. The whole thing just feels so empty, probably a result of them trying to turn it into "dude you can have whatever you want in the Realms it's so open lmao" though at least with stuff like the Khador Overlords they seem to have realised their mistake and begun actually trying to put some thought into the world building. No doubt the Crucible 7 PnP RPG will do wonders for it, just because Warhammer lore is always at its most in-depth and interesting when somebody other than Games Workshop is writing it.

C7 will knock it out the park, if GW lets them do their thing

Uhh, if you ask most Dark Souls players what their favourite armour is they're more than likely going to say "Elite Knight set." Just about every player of DS/BB I know (and I know a lot) was in love with the Empire and Bretonnian designs, but despises AoS. 

Ha, I like just the plain knight set but especially Havel's set. Giants armor and stone set get points for a Stormcast-esque look besides Ornstein as well.

I actually got alot of players to get into Stormcast because of the Dark Souls resemblance and DS players I know like them well enough.

Certainly alot of Dark Souls fans into AoS have converted them for DS bosses and the stone knight look. This one's my favorite:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/53da7y/artorias_the_warpwalker_stormcast_eternal/

And I know BB fans wouldn't care for Stormcasts but I've heard enough love for the Flesh-Eater Court because of it's theme of disease-like madness corrupting heroes and peasants alike and making them into blood thirsty beasts despite appearing like valiant soldiers in their own eyes. That the vampires keep the gothic and Victorian look certainly helps.

Besides that, AoS takes alot of cues from Dark Souls (and some nice Berserk-like artwork in the chaos book). The settings have three ages and a chaotic cycle they're trying to end, gods walk among mortals and the best background info is hidden piecemeal in the lore sections and fluff bits that can be put together for a larger picture.

Can't say everyone will see Dark Souls in it but I certainly do.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GHCw2AI-Lpk/VzOPcCyMnCI/AAAAAAAAAxw/3NTrX9nRYxEepRLHejj5cKTTHyc2MegQACKgB/s1600/age%2Bof%2Bsigmar%2Bartwork%2Bstormcast%2Beternals%2Bstardrake%2Bkhorne%2Bextremis.jpg

Before the Defence Force run in, no, one paper book in a boxed game and a handful of novels (almost all focusing on Sigmarines) does not make for an in-depth setting.

You're forgetting all the battletomes that are filled with that kind of lore, though you mention the Overlords like it's the only book to do so. The Grand Alliance books also gave alot of fluff for the setting and how everything fit.

Though RPG books will do wonders for enlightening people I'm curious why people can't be bothered to read or discuss these sources of lore but the rpg books magically solve all the problems? They're still going to have to buy and read it like you'd do with the novels or battletomes.

The rpg will have more details than some sources but it's just another window of the many GW are providing for their ever growing setting.

C7 will knock it out the park, if GW lets them do their thing

Oh definitely.

Before the Defence Force run in, no, one paper book in a boxed game and a handful of novels (almost all focusing on Sigmarines) does not make for an in-depth setting.

You're forgetting all the battletomes that are filled with that kind of lore, though you mention the Overlords like it's the only book to do so. The Grand Alliance books also gave alot of fluff for the setting and how everything fit.

Though RPG books will do wonders for enlightening people I'm curious why people can't be bothered to read or discuss these sources of lore but the rpg books magically solve all the problems? They're still going to have to buy and read it like you'd do with the novels or battletomes.

The rpg will have more details than some sources but it's just another window of the many GW are providing for their ever growing setting.

The issue there is that the lore is scattered all over the place, the good AoS books are not cheap, generally harder to find if you dont mail order, and AoS is not popular everywhere. A RPG will consolidate all the information in a more usable way. Lore in a wargame can be spread out and not really hurt it, for an RPG it needs to be readily available for GMs and players. I have all the AoS books but I dont think they are a coherent whole and the setting is still very sparse. They give in depth for small parts at a time but so far there really is no overall setting fleshed out (though its likely due to them still not being done with everything, so it makes sense from that perspective)

Indeed, the big difference between AoS and the Old World's setting detail is that the Old World kept building up lore around the same areas and factions over and over again so they kept adding more detail.

Such as when the second-to-last Empire book vaguely mentioned that a imperial noble insulted a Bretonnian's wife and their crusade was stopped by Helmgart cannons. Next book revealed it was Marius who did this and the cannons were actually Helblasters. The smaller setting let them easily expand on the details.

AoS is massive and constantly growing(metaphorically and literally) so it's far harder to pinpoint an area of detailed focus when the entire thing still needs expanding upon and fleshing out.

It was hard to make any world shaking outcomes in the old world. Having a world that doesn't feel like a historical setting with a fantasy skin over it is a great plus in my view. I don't feel any need to rush the AoS setting, the lore will come with time.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Indeed, the big difference between AoS and the Old World's setting detail is that the Old World kept building up lore around the same areas and factions over and over again so they kept adding more detail.

Such as when the second-to-last Empire book vaguely mentioned that a imperial noble insulted a Bretonnian's wife and their crusade was stopped by Helmgart cannons. Next book revealed it was Marius who did this and the cannons were actually Helblasters. The smaller setting let them easily expand on the details.

AoS is massive and constantly growing(metaphorically and literally) so it's far harder to pinpoint an area of detailed focus when the entire thing still needs expanding upon and fleshing out.

That is something AoS needs time to develop, but in all honesty GW should have developed a lot more than they did, particularly the starter box should have had more overview and less focus on stormcast, this was not just a new version of warhammer, its a completely new game (I get it they were the new hotness, but they are not gonna save or make AoS a success on their own). games like shadespire and silver tower are going to do wonders, hammerhal is a great start as well. It really felt like they shotgunned stuff out at us and hoped it would stick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Knight wrote:
It was hard to make any world shaking outcomes in the old world. Having a world that doesn't feel like a historical setting with a fantasy skin over it is a great plus in my view. I don't feel any need to rush the AoS setting, the lore will come with time.

in a miniature wargame setting, there is no need for world shaking outcomes. its basically just a backdrop to your fights. in a total setting like the old world, there is also rpg, card, video, etc... and AoS is going that way as well. But on the same note you do want your fanbase to care about the setting and bring it to life for them. the old world succeeded in doing that over its lifetime in the face of competition like the forgotten realms, greyhawk, dragonlance, etc... AoS ( or more accurately "the mortal realms") has not done that yet. and is out there enough to struggle (like eberron)

 Arbitrator wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
I'd agree to that in part in their appeal but they're also appealing to fans of high fantasy knights and even Dark Souls players since they have extravagant baroque armor, serve a God-king, lose their humanity upon respawning, have lightning and faith based magic and ride dragons made from a highly intelligent one that betrayed it's fellows (the God-beasts) to help the God-king.

Dark souls 3 supports the image further as there are golden winged knights with face masks and a hallowed king who rides a storm drake while fighting you upon a storm (ride the storm!).

As a dedicated fantasy player AoS pulled me right in with it's fantastical setting with limitless possibilities. The realm of life battleplan map was enough to make me fall for the setting.

Anyway, agreed to AoS being on the upswing once GW focuses on it again. Hopefully something nice pops up with the GH2 release like more battletomes.

Uhh, if you ask most Dark Souls players what their favourite armour is they're more than likely going to say "Elite Knight set." Just about every player of DS/BB I know (and I know a lot) was in love with the Empire and Bretonnian designs, but despises AoS. They went from quite grounded, gritty and reasonable designs in WHFB to something closer to World of Warcraft.

So far I am enjoying AoS setting and only wish more people gave it a chance, either the lore or the game. I feel AoS is more of a fantasy tale than the old world was.

People will give it a chance when they build on it, but right now it still has the depth of a puddle. Before the Defence Force run in, no, one paper book in a boxed game and a handful of novels (almost all focusing on Sigmarines) does not make for an in-depth setting. The whole thing just feels so empty, probably a result of them trying to turn it into "dude you can have whatever you want in the Realms it's so open lmao" though at least with stuff like the Khador Overlords they seem to have realised their mistake and begun actually trying to put some thought into the world building. No doubt the Crucible 7 PnP RPG will do wonders for it, just because Warhammer lore is always at its most in-depth and interesting when somebody other than Games Workshop is writing it.

My favortie armour is the pudgy brother guy armour lol. It was wearable in the new darksouls but weighted a ton.

You mean Onion knight? That's one of my favorites too.

Great characters as well, "I'm a knight of Catarina and you will feel my wrath!".

Edit: I guess bonus points again that by the end of game 3 he's a large armored knight using a sword with the power of a storm to defeat a chaotic giant amidst a long destroyed kingdom.

I'm going to start collecting Age of Sigmar this year. I know of only a few people here who do but no one actually plays that I know of, so if I did want to play here I would likely have to start organising times ect.

40k has seen a resurgence in old players and new alike though but at least a few people are feeling stung by 40k so might look at Age of Sigmar now.

For me my interest in AoS started with acolytes of tzeentch, and I think that release is when a lot of people began to start looking at AOS as more than just “stormcast, khorne, and halfnforgotten legacy models and no fluff.”.

The Karadons are cool- but I strongly suspect that its tje cthulu elves amd the return of Slaanesh that will see AoS really start to take off.

I like that AoS doesn't require people to buy a big $80 rulebook, but at the same time one advantage to a big rulebook is that it's a convenient place to stick a bunch of fluff about the setting and the individual armies.

New 40k is a $60 book and the core rules, like AoS's, are free for download.

I'm into the new 40k , but mostly 'cause it is new (guilty of fleshing out my genestealer cult ). For me AoS remains the game of choice between the two due to the more interesting unit rules in the warscrolls. Oh, and the warscrolls are free - I spend considerably more time on the AoS section that before because of that.

Yeah, i think they made a few decisions with AOS that ultimately are better than 40k; having all the unit stats freely available was huge, and I'm not sure why they changed their mind other than to get some more $25 books sold.

I think its because AOS was an experiment to see if people would buy books even if the rules were free.

Unsurprisingly the answer is no. No most people won't buy a single book if they can get the rules free.

 auticus wrote:
I think its because AOS was an experiment to see if people would buy books even if the rules were free.

Unsurprisingly the answer is no. No most people won't buy a single book if they can get the rules free.

I would need to see sales figures supporting that claim. Everyone in my local group uses a battletome if their army has one available. We just prefer physical media.

We'll never get sales figures. Only anecdotes.

Anecdotally, in my city, and in the two cities nearby where we have joint gaming sessions... out of say 40 people, there are four of us with any books (GHB not counting, everyone has one of those).

I know that all of the sales managers in said region and FLGS have said that the books don't really move either. Now that is concerning the Realmgate Wars books.

Army books, up until Sylvaneth there were only two of us that had books. Once they started putting rules into the books like the artefacts etc... (sylvaneth release), people started buying books again with their armies, because those rules were not freely available. This also caused a minor storm of complaining.

The unit stats are free, but you need the books if you want formations, spells/prayers, and allegiance abilities/command traits. And they actually don't have every units rules available. The Drakesworn Templar was not online until this year, and the Relictor is still not up as an example. So I would say the free rules were largely moot in the first place, as they are more of just a sampling, and people are buying AoS books regardless of the free unit rules. So GW simply skipped that this time around.

I had no problem buying the Bloodbound and Overlord books. The later especially, on account of the artwork.

 auticus wrote:
We'll never get sales figures. Only anecdotes.

Anecdotally, in my city, and in the two cities nearby where we have joint gaming sessions... out of say 40 people, there are four of us with any books (GHB not counting, everyone has one of those).

I know that all of the sales managers in said region and FLGS have said that the books don't really move either. Now that is concerning the Realmgate Wars books.

Army books, up until Sylvaneth there were only two of us that had books. Once they started putting rules into the books like the artefacts etc... (sylvaneth release), people started buying books again with their armies, because those rules were not freely available. This also caused a minor storm of complaining.

Well, even before Sylvaneth, you had to have the battletome for battalions. Based on the rate at which new battetomes for popular armies seem to sell out online, after release, I'd say their sales are respectable. I just don't believe that they aren't selling due to free rules online.

Without a worldwide poll we'll never know. Here, that was very much the case.

I strongly dislike AOS, don't like what GW did with WFB, liked the game concept/style of WFB better, don't like the style or setting and prefer the low-fantasy?? /: Brandon Sanderson/patrick rothfuss/Martin/Raymond E. Feist/LOTR/1000AD - 1600AD style of WFB then the more comic book/marvel style of AOS. A LOT of people feel the same way I do. They are interesting in getting back into 40k but not so much AOS.

So will 40ks success have any effect on AOS. I would say yes because GW will be be pumping RND into 40k and specialist games because they are making so much $$$ there. This will mean not enough support for Sigmar. If the game is to grow then GW need to get more people in by releasing models, and trying harder to catch more peoples imagination.

Then they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, considering WHFB from all reports wasn't selling hardly anything.

People voted with their wallet. WHFB died on the vine. For a variety of reasons.

MadMarkMagee wrote:

So will 40ks success have any effect on AOS. I would say yes because GW will be be pumping RND into 40k and specialist games because they are making so much $$$ there. This will mean not enough support for Sigmar. If the game is to grow then GW need to get more people in by releasing models, and trying harder to catch more peoples imagination.

People were saying the same thing 2 years ago. AoS is still here.