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2017/07/26 13:31:34
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Ship's Officer
London
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The bastion is incredibly tough for its price. T9 makes a very significant difference, since most anti-tank weapons are S8 or 9.
That said, a bunker does a lot of the same things, for just over half the price.
There are particular units that really benefit from fortifications. Rather than looking at the fortifications, it probably makes sense to look at the units that would go in them. Example: devastator centurions. Very shooty, but pretty vulnerable to being shot back, and expensive. Putting them in a bunker doesn't increase their (already huge) cost by all that much, but increases their survivability enormously.
Another good thing fortifications do is reduce the number of drops you have. You can stick all your HQs into a building as a single drop, along with a unit of some kind.
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2017/07/26 13:50:55
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I'm going to try using a bastion as a firebase for a squad of Kataphrons this weekend. They are stupidly expensive and fragile, so a nice thick fort might keep them alive a little longer.
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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2017/07/27 15:33:56
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Fortifications seem a huge waste of points if you don't fill them because their principal value- toughness is negated by the fact that enemies can now afford to simply ignore them, as they won't do much damage. But when they have occupants they could be really strong as the opponent HAS to wast firepower on them, or face the wrath of several devastator squads/ HWT/ havocs. Of course I speak as somebody who plays mordian iron guard and imperial fists, so may be a tad biased.
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Owz it work.
Coz I sez it doz, dats why |
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2017/07/27 21:08:56
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster
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I'm thinking of using the fortification+Looters as an area control device/unit;
place it where I can cover 2-3 objectives or obvious fire lanes,
Hvy Wpns don't have to move and are fairly safe,
(More expensive than a Battlewagon, but looks more survivable)
have a fast buggy or Kopta hidden behind it to zip out and grab victory points
Hopefully it'll work!
If not, at least my Looters have a party den!
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2017/07/28 12:24:06
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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My debate has been
Stormlord with 2 units of veterans
Aquilla with 1 unit of veterans
2 Bastions with 2 units of veterans
I intend to back whichever option with a VSG
Stormlord mobile, shootiest, most expensive 26w t8 but repairable
Aquilla less firepower than storm lord but cheaper and tougher 30w t10 interesting gun
Bastions no interesting weapons but toughest 40w t9 also block's LOS boring looking model not a lot of points difference
(Would consider plasma obliterators over bastions but it would be a miracle if I could get the models at an affordable price) in which case same 40 w t9 as bastion but cheaper and better shooting but on average both mortal wound themselves 1+(1/6)/turn.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 12:26:09
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2017/07/28 22:23:30
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Cheyenne WY
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NOLA Chris wrote:I'm thinking of using the fortification+Looters as an area control device/unit;
place it where I can cover 2-3 objectives or obvious fire lanes,
Hvy Wpns don't have to move and are fairly safe,
(More expensive than a Battlewagon, but looks more survivable)
have a fast buggy or Kopta hidden behind it to zip out and grab victory points
Hopefully it'll work!
If not, at least my Looters have a party den!
You should model it with piles of empties, and barrels of grog everywhere!
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The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER |
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2017/07/29 03:15:43
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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JohnU wrote:Didn't bother with them too much in 7th, but now Bomb Squigs are BS 2+
Are there any rules about manning the guns?
I've not found any. As far as I can tell, you are paying a premium for guns that hit on a 5+.
Because of that, they don't seem worth the cost to me.
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2017/07/29 03:45:30
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Yup, they are auto fire only now, but if someone is in the building they can pick the target. It sucks, given how stupidly expensive forts are now. An 8th ed bastion costs about as much as a 7th ed FOR...
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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2017/07/29 04:32:06
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I tried out an Aegis Defence Line with a quad gun yesterday. I don't think it's worth it, although it really wasn't a fair test since I was facing mainly footslogging mobs of Orks, and Da Jump made it so that they were in my face very early on.
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2017/07/29 05:14:26
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So one of the big downsides is that you can't buff units in transports.
So sure, throw dark reapers in a bunker but you can't guide them
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2017/07/29 13:58:01
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Yeah they can't be guided or word of the Phoenixed but on the flip side they can't be touched until you get through 20 T9 wounds. So until then they fire at full strength.
And even tho they can't be guided they can still shoot at a doomed target.
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2017/07/29 16:44:47
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
Ottawa
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deFl0 wrote:So one of the big downsides is that you can't buff units in transports.
So sure, throw dark reapers in a bunker but you can't guide them
Oh, I didn't realize that. There goes my plan to have a Captain supporting some Hellblasters in a Bastion.
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2017/07/29 17:12:15
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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How do people feel about the Tau fortifications in 8th? I feel like the Tidewall Shieldline could do some work with some Pathfinders or Strike teams on it. Same problem though; they couldn't benefit from the buffs of a Fireblade or Ethereal.
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2017/07/30 00:39:17
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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10 Lootas in a Bastion with a Quad Gun, 392. 10-30 S7 AP-1 D2 shots, 12 S5 AP-1 D1 and 8 S7 AP-1 D1 6+ or 4+ versus flyers. Put another character in there to run out to grab an objective. This is what I am thinking about. The hitting on 5+ doesn't hurt Orks.
I just keep thinking if the Bastion is better than putting the Lootas in a Battlewagon?
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More Dakka! |
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2017/07/30 06:01:22
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Bounding Assault Marine
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ZergSmasher wrote:I tried out an Aegis Defence Line with a quad gun yesterday. I don't think it's worth it, although it really wasn't a fair test since I was facing mainly footslogging mobs of Orks, and Da Jump made it so that they were in my face very early on.
I was thinking about running it without the gun for 75p. The guns aren't worth it compared to a devastator that can be buffed.
Just not sure if 75p is worth the added +1 to save though. For that price I could have a tactical squad w/ a flamer which makes a decent wall of it's own.
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2017/07/30 07:03:11
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Tried a bastion out at today's tournament.
That is one hunk of obturate ceramite.
It only got killed once, and made a great firebase for my Kataphrons. Didn't bother to upgrade beyond the 4 heavy bolters, but it was still reeally expensive.
Not bad for a static defense list, but still rather overpriced IMO.
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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2017/08/01 08:04:28
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Humorless Arbite
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There are two things I'm dissappointed about RE: Fortifications.
The drop in capacity (FOR went from 50 capable to 30 (but only 1 unit so not really even 30))
The Ballistic Skill (FOR getting 5+ to start making it absolutely useless when at 1/3rd health, should have been 4+ so it can still put out fire even when nearly dead)
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2017/08/01 11:40:36
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Ship's Officer
London
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Nerfing the BS of fortifications is deliberate, but odd. I ca nsee that maybe a bastion’s heavy bolters are automated and inaccurate, but why not at least put a guardsman in charge of firing an Aquila or a plasma obliterator – and would you really trust a gun like that to an AI?
The value of fortifications depends on the unit inside it. One unit I think would really benefit from them is dark reapers. They are horrible things and so deservedly attract a lot of hate, so putting them in a 100 point bunker would really help.
That said, some armies just have better options – especially if they can have open-topped transports. I’d put lootas in a battlewagon instead, for example. Quite a lot of Eldar units might be better off in some kind of open-topped transport as well.
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2017/08/01 11:50:00
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Which is what makes them so appealing for dark reapers since they don't have open topped transports to shoot out of. And with their 48" range mobility isn't too much of an issue as they can shoot almost anywhere of note.
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2017/08/02 13:45:46
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster
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Soss wrote:10 Lootas in a Bastion with a Quad Gun, 392. 10-30 S7 AP-1 D2 shots, 12 S5 AP-1 D1 and 8 S7 AP-1 D1 6+ or 4+ versus flyers. Put another character in there to run out to grab an objective. This is what I am thinking about. The hitting on 5+ doesn't hurt Orks.
I just keep thinking if the Bastion is better than putting the Lootas in a Battlewagon?
Let us know if it works well for ya!
That's very similar to what I've been considering to keep the Lootas safe.
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2017/10/30 15:45:44
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Fresh-Faced New User
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My group is finding that fortifications are quite nice even with the BS 5+. A situation came up last weekend that we haven't been able to answer yet. We were playing Eternal War No Mercy and adding up VP's at the end. One side was able to blow up a Firestorm Redoubt . Does the person who destroyed it get to count this as a VP? I'd like some decent proof if anyone has a good answer.
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2017/11/17 22:33:34
Subject: Re:Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Any thoughts on the Aegis Defense Line?
As it stands now, it's kind of an expensive piece of equipment to field. If I ran Marines I could see the appeal as it would grant them 2+ saves, but as Imperial Guard the buffs feel rather lackluster, at least on paper.
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You say Fiery Crash! I say Dynamic Entry!
*Increases Game Point Limit by 100*: Tau get two Crisis Suits and a Firewarrior. Imperial Guard get two infantry companies, artillery support, and APCs. |
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2017/11/18 00:38:31
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Dakka Veteran
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I'd say I'm surprised to see no mentions of the "Primaris Redoubt" - but as a FW:Astra-Militarum entry (listed there, but is UNALIGNED), I can see a lot of people missing it; it looks real solid.
Primaris Redoubt - 300points [minimal loadout]
T8, W20, Sv3+, Sv5++
DT- LD: 96", Macro 2d3, S16, AP-3, D2d6
[Can also take up to 4 Heavy Bolters, + 1 other unique weapon]
BS4+; +1 to hit when targeting units with TITANIC
Can transport one unit of INFANTRY, up to 20 models; and transport any number of INFANTRY CHARACTERS
300 points for a damn solid main gun; can add 40 points for a Twin-Lascannon, then extra points for up to 4 Heavy Bolters -
Looks good for those armies that are struggling with anti-tank, or struggling against large (titanic/other) sized units. [I play Orks, and these seem like great anti-tank for the points price; minus the fact its a single model.]
I'd probably run a pair of them with the minimal loadout (no lascannon/heavy bolters/etc); of course, it depends on the rest of your list - if you have no other vehicle/durable single targets, you're just giving a target for all of your opponents AT guns.
That said, when the shots land, they can do a LOT of damage; they seem like they'd struggle with -1 to hit modifiers (especially -2...), but the +1 vs TITANIC models can help that to a degree.
Personally, I'd model them as large landing craft - which would explain the transport capacity, large guns, and the fact that they're showing up on the battlefield - two players bringing fortifications just doesn't make sense.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/11/18 00:42:49
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2017/11/18 00:46:15
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Legendary Dogfighter
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2 bastions, VSG, Skyshield, 4 VWBs and an ADL here. Also Haemotrope, but they don't do anything any more.
The bastions have seen a lot of use as a 'what line of sight?' for my artillery park. The VSG was meant to be a mighty middle finger covering valhallan super heavy tanks, but i've yet to be able to use it properly.
VWBs I cannot be bothered packing; frankly I regret buying them ¬_¬
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cothonian wrote:Any thoughts on the Aegis Defense Line?
As it stands now, it's kind of an expensive piece of equipment to field. If I ran Marines I could see the appeal as it would grant them 2+ saves, but as Imperial Guard the buffs feel rather lackluster, at least on paper.
Depending how you model your guardsmen - and by that i'm thinking specifically mortar teams - it blocks line of sight.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/18 00:49:28
Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement. |
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2017/11/18 01:11:30
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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The aegis defenseines, and extra barricade sections were auto include in all my Ork lists for giving Lootaz a 2+ Go To Ground roll.
Now, I just bring them to add to terrain.
Vengeance Weapons Batteries might make a come back for me, but there are always better uses of points.
I also think a Bastion might make a good firebase. But I would never be able to transport the damn thing.
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2017/11/20 19:29:38
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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Getting in to follow up, have a half assembled FoR and ASP, and one of every other GW terrain/fortress assembled: firestorm, vengeance batteries, bastion, aegis, plasma battery, wall of martyers...
I had been playing Tzeentch Daemons and didn't really think to open up the terrain box for units. But my crowd is becoming more thematic focused (a good thing in my opinion) and maybe these will get dusted off. Automatically Appended Next Post: And a second post for a question... when a fortification is in HtH can it still shoot? It's not like it can fall back and I haven't looked at the respective data sheets enough to know if they have that ability.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/20 19:34:09
Kernbanks
definitely not a monogamer, you got it I'll play it. |
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2017/11/20 23:36:12
Subject: Forfications - 8th Edition Style!
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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JohnU wrote: Latro_ wrote: JohnU wrote:I have an Ork gunline list w/ VSG and a Firestorm Redoubt I'll try out just for fun.
The change to a flat BS 5+ even when guns are manned is a little disappointing though.
what did you have on the guns before grots? XD
Didn't bother with them too much in 7th, but now Bomb Squigs are BS 2+
Don't get me started on Bomb Squiggs. I had a Razorback full then all of the sudden i didnt
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