Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
the issue is elder biks got quite a nerf, dire avengers are super overcosted. fire prism seems solid and so do farseers

Fireprism is rather....blah. Not as bad as the Falcon, which is terribly overcosted (and I can't figure out why)

But anyway, Fireprism. Lets stack it up against the wave serpent (because somewhat unfortunately, all the Craftworld weapons platforms need to pass the Wave Serpent test. Most fail)
Going to ignore the chin weapons, because they're exactly the same.

Dispersed firing.
Yeah... this is clearly not very good. d6 shots and single damage. AP is nice, S is solid, but twin starcannons on a wave serpent is less than 10 points more, and it smacks the pants off the damage output, even if you roll a 6 for # of dispersed shots.
For some reference, twin star against a landspeeder is 4*.66*.50*.83= 1.096 success, which becomes 3 wounds.
Dispersed averages 3.5 shots, and lets be generous and round up to four. Same formula, but it _doesn't_ become 3 wounds. Even if you had 6 shots every time, it would only be about 1.64. Bad.

Focused. This looks like it should be good, but... heavy d3 isn't stellar. It averages to 2
Against the same landspeeder, 2*.66*.66*1(no save)= 0.8712, which probably turns into 2 wounds, because d3 is awful. Yes, focused is worse than starcannons against a t6 3+ vehicle. Because of the wound chart, this is ALSO what focused does against a leman russ. A not particularly reliable chance to do 2 wounds.
[Starcannon vs t8, 3+, by the by: slightly behind at 0.723 (4*.66*.33*.83), but if it does wound, it does 3.

Lance. Oh dear Khaine, why?
Single shot, will wound a speeder on 2+ rather than 3+, but wounds t8 in exactly the same way as focused at S9. This is already going to go badly.
vs. speeder: 1*.66*.83*1(no save)= 0.548, average of 3.5 wounds if it works. This is way behind the starcannon (at 1.096 and 3 wounds). Seriously half the chance.
vs. Russ: 1*.66*.66*1 (still no save) = 0.4356, still 3.5 wounds if it works. This is also worse than the starcannon.


Also, twin bright lances are a wave serpent option, and a fair bit cheaper. Similar to a focused beam, but only wounds half the time vs t8. Does more wounds if it does work, however.


Falcons kind of double down on the terrible. Pulse lasers are worse than twin bright lances (lower AP, lower average damage), but GW seems to think they're worth 50-70 points (depending on what they think a 6 model passenger compartment is worth). They are not.
I'd honestly love to know what GW thinks the basic eldar gravtank chassis is worth, with no transport capacity, serpent shield or other special rules. Just the basic profile, give or take the extra wound on the serpent. Because something seriously janky is going on, but because the main armament is set to zero points, it's hard to tell what it is. But the falcon and fireprism are at least 10-20% too much.


The only other craftworld grav tank worthy of consideration is the Night Spinner: 2d6 shots at S7, D2 and the possibility of AP-4 isn't something a wave serpent can emulate. Twin missiles aren't bad, but the -1 AP on sunburst is matched by the S7 wounding most of the same targets on 3+ (and t3 on 2+). Engages a wide range of light vehicles and infantry targets very nicely. Helpful against nobs, heavy weapon teams and potentially primaris marines as well, can get lucky vs. terminators.

 Marsyas wrote:

Zatsuku wrote:
Still haven't decided what though, maybe some aspect warriors and a Farseer?

Farseer is definitely good, but it won't buff anything that doesn't have the Asuryani keyword. Which means it won't buff anything that isn't Craftworld Eldar. So long as you keep that in mind, you'll do fine. A big part of playing Ynnari is making sure that your army's subgroups are all arranged correctly and all your ducks are in a row. As far as my recommendations go, a lot depends on what you want to play. Dark Reapers are always useful; Fire Dragons are unparalleled in their ability to erase vehicles and monsters from the board; the Hemlock Wraithfighter is incredible, but its non-smite psychic powers will only affect Craftworld Eldar infantry and bikers; Swooping Hawks are an excellent anti-horde option. With the options available to you in the Ynnari list, you probably don't need Howling Banshees or Striking Scorpions, though; Harlequin Troupes do that job better.

What's the big obvious hole in your army? Do you need more anti-tank and anti-monster capabilities? Something to counter hordes? Something to answer MEQs? Something to deal with aircraft?

The Doom power will work just as well for all the units you have though right? Since it is targeting enemy units. I am really not sure what I need more of yet to be honest. I kitted out my Scourges for anti-tank and monster, but I could see needing both more anti-tank and more horde clearing ability. I also wouldn't mind having some strong close combat to make my army more combined arms, should I just grab the Harlequins for that then?

Zatsuku wrote:

The Doom power will work just as well for all the units you have though right? Since it is targeting enemy units. I am really not sure what I need more of yet to be honest. I kitted out my Scourges for anti-tank and monster, but I could see needing both more anti-tank and more horde clearing ability. I also wouldn't mind having some strong close combat to make my army more combined arms, should I just grab the Harlequins for that then?

Doom power does indeed work for anything you care to throw it at.

Harlequin troupes are exceptional in close combat, yes. For 21 points per clown you get four S4 AP-3 D1 close combat attacks, a shuriken pistol and a 4++ invul save on a platform that can advance and charge in the same turn, and which can always shoot and charge after falling back from combat. If you're willing to up that to 24 points per clown, those four attacks go up to S5 AP-2 D1. You can also give them fusion pistols if you want, which are 6" range melta guns.

Their dedicated transport is also excellent; for 99 points you get an open topped transport with two shuriken cannons that hits on 3+ in both ranged and close combat, 16" movement, a 4++ invul save, 3 close combat attacks at S5, and anyone who attacks it in the shooting phase has to subtract 1 from any hit rolls made against it.

I have some old-school metal harlies that I really must finish painting. They look pretty tasty in 8th edition, are easy to include and leave poor old Howling Banshees in the dust.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marsyas wrote:
The Hemlock Wraithfighter is incredible, but its non-smite psychic powers will only affect Craftworld Eldar infantry and bikers

In most cases I would probably use the Horrify Power since it stacks with the Hemlock's "Mindshock Pods" rule for a -2 Ld penalty. Even Marines start to worry about Battleshock with their Ld heading south.

Reveal is also quite handy for stripping cover saves.

If you are going for Ld shenanigans don't forget your Phantasm Grenade Launchers.

Stacking those negative LD mods sounds delicious.