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So the first thing I would say is to ignore EVERYTHING Gamgee says.

I'm a Tau player (Have been since they were introduced) and have had half a dozen games in 8th versus a range of opponents and won 4 of them lost 1 and another was a draw.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Talamare wrote:
I'm personally still shocked that BS+3 Dreadnoughts with Quad Autocannons cost 130 points while BS+4 HYMP Broadsides costs 160.

Worse everything for more expensive... BRILLIANT!

That extra 30 points comes from Broadsides being able to engage more targets and having a higher expected damage output with Markerlight support.

You're wrong, allow me to list them

1 - The 130 vs 160 is an equal representation. Meaning without the additional Guns Broadsides can bring. Those additional guns are terrible by the way, so act as kinda of a Tax. Not a boon.
2 - This still wouldn't account for the VAST defensive differences between the 2
3 - Unimportant, but the Dreadnought is really good at melee too
4 - Markerlights costs points to bring and they are terrible now, and the only consistent effect is rerolling 1s... Which a Space Marine Captain can do...
5 - Not to mention that for 20 points more, we can make the Dreadnought into a Venerable to give it +1 BS... That's right... for 10 points cheaper than a Broadside you get a BS+2 Platform
6 - Are you going to try to defend point #5 by saying that 5 Markerlights can do the same? Because that costs a huge amount of points to reach! ... and the Broadside would still be far behind...

Worst part is? Dreadnoughts aren't even OP

Well, the first weekend's tournament results are in now, and it looks like Tau have performed better than every other Xenos faction besides Dark Eldar, who just edge it. Evidently it is possible to see success with them if they are played correctly, though it does seem like their playstyle has changed a great deal and some formerly powerful units may have seen an excessive cost increase.

 Gamgee wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Yeah... My experience with Tau to date are anything but the weakest. I got tabled by them at a tournament last week. They are the only non-knight army that has managed to do that to me this edition.

That player only missed a perfect score that tournament because I got first blood in our game. So I'm going to definitely say they're anything but weakest.

Batrep? Details?

Happened two weekends ago, details are hazy.

It was a crisis suit heavy army, a lot of cyclic ion blasters and flamers.

Ah I might have heard of this one. I think one individual Tau player I know reported winning a tournament. Could have been him, but if so he is one of two individuals or possibly the same one and only one of at least 50. Still thanks for sharing. If you remember any more details let me know. Flamethrowers heavy lists form any army suffer from melee who can charge from outside of it and not trigger it's over watch. Fusion and Cyclic are both good crisis choices. Perhaps the only ones to take. So yeah I'm not surprised he did well with it. I still think as people get used to the shock of our best stuff they will adapt to it and overtake them, but obviously time and data will be needed for me to prove or disprove that point. What army did you play? I've seen far more reports of Tau being tabled quite handily. Typically within turn 2-3.

This guy didn't win. He took 2nd. We had a Knight player get a perfect score.

Rumors of the Tau demise has been greatly exaggerated. It does appear to have less internal balance than most other armies. But more importantly, the playstyle changes of 8th affect Tau a lot. People have still not wrapped their brains around Fall Back. Kroot screens are vital, to address the OP. My biggest concern is that the army largely revolves around drones and Savior Protocol. They are the possible explanation for the Dreadnought point differences (though Dreads are probably undercosted).

If I were going into a tournament right now, I would take my Tau over my Nids.

Gamgee wrote:Another Tau player has given me some details. 10 games and he only won 3 due to luck. Has been gaming since the Tau first came out and has the entire range. One of those was due to a Tyranid player not knowing he could charge outside flamer range. The luck in the other two was his crazy alpha strikes on suits.

Yeap this tips the win loss ratio to 88% loss rate when looking at overall games. His name is Raikoh067 on ATT.

With Monado's testimony of destroying Tau in 8th likely a 89% loss rate.

Right now many of these reports are not going into detail on loses so I can't definitely say for sure this 100% thing needs to be buffed or not.

In general points need to come down a lot for the most expensive things to even be worth considering taking.

Also if I was to be GW I would slowly buff the Tau. If they are afraid of the Tau becoming too powerful too fast they should buff them slowly over time and work them into a good spot.

@TheNewBlood
The Tau player at my FLG said that his army was mopped up by half of the necron players army alone and had nothing to answer it. Necorn player was throwing him pitty points.

I've been watching games played since the full 8th rules were leaked. So it's been a good few weeks of time. There is no secret combo we're missing. The Tau rules are so gutted we may as well be playing generic 40k army 1.0 due a lack of anything stand out. I forgot to factor in my friends few games with them where he lost (predictably). This nearly brings the loss rate almost to 90% need a few more losses tallied and boom.


Enemy armies are cheaper, faster, have more men, can shoot as much as us, have psychic powers, powerful melee, can pile on multiple charges ect, and are basically as strong as us in ranged attacks. Against Dark Eldar out much vaunted and nearly useless ability to flee combat and shoot is completely worthless.

Admittedly, if we move the goalposts back to when the first 8th edition rules were made available, the timeframe is now extended to ...two weeks. Less than a month. Hardly enough time for people to master the new rules.

Or has it been? If we go by the raw data from the ten most recent tournaments, Tau have placed in the Top 10 seven times. Highest placing was second. Evidently, some people have figured out how to make Tau work so far in 8th.

The only thing that's overcosted in the current Tau index is Missilesides, and even that's debateable. After 6th and 7th editions I'm glad those are no longer an auto-take. Riptides are now appropriately costed for what they bring and using the Nova Reactor has an actual downside now. The Stormsurge is now putting out an acceptable amount for firepower for non-Apocalypse games and is costed appropriately as well.

If you stand 24 inches away from a Necron army, you are going to get hosed. That's been true since 5th edition, and applies to all no -Necron armies.

There are a grand total of three Dark Eldar units that can prevent an enemy unit from falling back. And it's not a guarantee either, as it is just as likely that the Tau player will roll higher and be able to Fall Back normally from the Wyches/Hekatrix Bloodbrides/Succubus.

The faster Tau units (IE anything with Fly) are just as fast as other armies' mobile units, and Tau have plenty of reserveable units as well. Tau are just as short than other armies, if not more so.

Hollow wrote:So the first thing I would say is to ignore EVERYTHING Gamgee says.

I'm Tau player (Have been since they were introduced) and have had half a dozen games in 8th versus a range of opponents and won 4 of them lost 1 and another was a draw.

I agree wholeheartedly with this! Exalted.

Talamare wrote:
You're wrong, allow me to list them

1 - The 130 vs 160 is an equal representation. Meaning without the additional Guns Broadsides can bring. Those additional guns are terrible by the way, so act as kinda of a Tax. Not a boon.
2 - This still wouldn't account for the VAST defensive differences between the 2
3 - Unimportant, but the Dreadnought is really good at melee too
4 - Markerlights costs points to bring and they are terrible now, and the only consistent effect is rerolling 1s... Which a Space Marine Captain can do...
5 - Not to mention that for 20 points more, we can make the Dreadnought into a Venerable to give it +1 BS... That's right... for 10 points cheaper than a Broadside you get a BS+2 Platform
6 - Are you going to try to defend point #5 by saying that 5 Markerlights can do the same? Because that costs a huge amount of points to reach! ... and the Broadside would still be far behind...

Worst part is? Dreadnoughts aren't even OP

Even at that equal representation of weaponry, the Missileside puts out twice as many S7 shots as the Autocannons Dread and will do slightly more damage on average (D2 vs D3). The SMS allows the Broadside to engage more targets and be more effective against a variety of targets than the Dread.

Dreadnoughts are tougher than a Broadside, true.

A Dreadnought without a DCCW is only slightly better than a Broadside in melee.

Markerlights aren't terrible, just different. Admittedly some of the price difference between the two units is most likely due to the effects of Markerlights being factored in.

The problem (in some people's eyes and a massive boon in mine) is that T'au have become a thinking mans choice. It's no longer possible to stack n' pack a bunch of Tides and call it a day. Synergy is more important than ever.

You guys are jumping the topic of this tread. The OP wanted to know how drones, vespids, kroot and hammerhead did in the new edition in order to make lists around them.

 Hollow wrote:
The problem (in some people's eyes and a massive boon in mine) is that T'au have become a thinking mans choice. It's no longer possible to stack n' pack a bunch of Tides and call it a day. Synergy is more important than ever.

I'd actually argue that's the opposite. The reason I loved Tau in 5th-7th was the synergy. Every job had a tool and you had to decide when, where, and how to use it. Now Tau seem more about redundancy than synergy. We have no less than three ways to get rerolls of ones, for example, and three ways to get shooting without penalty after advancing. That's not synergy, that's one choice making another useless. I can understand how gunlines were a boring force to come up against, but I never used those. My forces were always mobile, Fire Warriors in Devilfish, lots of suits, drones, etc. Hell, I had several lists where the least mobile thing in my army were relentless Broadsides with Heavy Rail Rifles. In fact, my lists all fit the new playstyle rather well, but at the same time... I can't say I'm having fun anymore.

It seems like anything Tau can do, the Imperium can do better. When you're army specializes in a single phase of the game, (two if you're being generous and calling the old JSJ specializing in the movement phase) you should never feel like a generalist army outdoes you in the one thing you're good at.

Actually seeing tournament results from an ITC tournament have calmed many of my initial fears. For now. Initially it appears I was vastly underestimating some of the new Tau stuff. So for now I will say I'm looking like I was wrong with regards to that. The first results put them 11 place out of all the many armies in the game which is pretty good. My Dark Eldar and Deathwatch appear to be stronger than them.

However just to be safe let's give it a full month or two anyways just to be on the safe side and give people some more prep time to really get the full 8th armies done and painted.

I am actually glad to be wrong on this one folks. The funny thing though is I was right about Dark Eldar and Orks. Definitely picking up the full rules asap now and going to enter my local tournament to test them for myself.

You have to realise from where I am coming from I've had one of the worst life experiences with Tau hate so I was bound to be paranoid as hell trying to make sure they weren't getting junked.

Lets go shopping shall we? Here's part of a list I have used twice to great effect.

The TX7 Hammerhead Menage-a-trois of DOOM!

This is the foundation of an incredibly versatile and powerful castle.

Longstrikes Gunship; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S
x2 TX7 HH; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S

x 2 units of 8 Markerlight Drone squads

This all comes to a rather stonking 816 points! (You can add 2 Seeker Missiles to each tank for a total of 30 points over the 3 tanks if you want to throw out some Mortal Wounds, The Markers (2+) combined with Long-Strike means 6 Seeker Mortal Wounds dished out on a 2+ (Re-rolling 1's) Turn one)

I have found this combo be utterly brutal. Lets have a little look shall we?

With Longstrikes +1 to hit buff you have 9 Strength 7, AP-2, D2, Range 60" shots coming from the Ion Canons. Combined with just 1 Marker-Light hit (Allowing you to re-roll 1's to hit) means you can shred Terminators. As you are hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's, Wounding on 3's and taking their save to 4+. Each failed save is a dead Terminator thanks to D2.

You then have 24 Strength 5, Range 30" shots which do not need line of sight and negate cover coming from the S-M-S.

A cheeky couple of Carbine shots coming from Long-Strike himself and the ability to place wounds onto the drones rather than soaking them all up on the Tanks means they stay viable for much longer (Combined you have 55 wounds over the 3 tanks and the 16 drones, Even with focused fire you can place the wounds onto the drones)

All I know... if I get to get my vespid on and bring tons of them so I am happy lol. Now trying to find some is hard that everyone wants some.

Vespid are certainly interesting, especially when you are playing objectives. Their ability to 'Swoop from the Sky' at the end of any of your movement phases means you can drop in and claim those objectives.

A 14" movement gives them a lot of reach and coupled with a more stationary choice (like the TX7 castle I mentioned above) it can make for a very dynamic gaming experience.

However, If you take a unit of 10, That's 150 points. Granted, that gives you 20 S5, Ap-2 shorts with the ability to Assault. Although hitting on 4's and with S3 they aren't really going to do much in combat.

Another good option, although the idea that they have become a no-brainer and "everyone" is going going for them is (once again) a nonsense point.

I want them mostly as skirmishers and to support my main army. They will mostly be backfield units picking off targets of opportunity, or going on suicide runs to hit a pin point target of prime opportunity and importance.

That and objective capping.

Basically how cavalry would work in a historical setting. I don't expect them to win the game on their own lol. They work really well with aggressive Tau play though.

Edit
I think the thing I am most excited about is the pulse blast cannon on the stormsurge might finally be viable. I've always wanted to charge my SS up the field with it but it wasn't too great in 7th, but now I think it will be worth it since it makes the SS much cheaper and more deadly. It also let's you choose your rang band effect you want to use if your in a closer bracket. So if you want more anti-infantry firepower you can do that even if in close range.

Vespid are devastating for devastator squads and great for picking up objectives. However, T4, 4+ Save isn't very resilient. I suppose when you said you wanted to "Bring tons of them" I thought you meant... well. That you wanted to bring tons of them. Considering they are 15 points each (Nearly the cost of 2 fire warriors). A couple 10 man units (Or 4, 5 man units) is going to run you 300 points.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Even at that equal representation of weaponry, the Missileside puts out twice as many S7 shots as the Autocannons Dread and will do slightly more damage on average (D2 vs D3).

Dreadnoughts have 2xTWIN Autocannons that's Heavy 4 x2, HYMP is Heavy 4 x2

They have exact same amount of shots...

On a hit on average they will do the exact same amount of damage...
The difference is, that you can count on Autocannons to do exactly how much you need. While you have to pray that HYMP isn't going to fubar it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hollow wrote:
Lets go shopping shall we? Here's part of a list I have used twice to great effect.

The TX7 Hammerhead Menage-a-trois of DOOM!

This is the foundation of an incredibly versatile and powerful castle.

Longstrikes Gunship; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S
x2 TX7 HH; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S

x 2 units of 8 Markerlight Drone squads

This all comes to a rather stonking 816 points! (You can add 2 Seeker Missiles to each tank for a total of 30 points over the 3 tanks if you want to throw out some Mortal Wounds, The Markers (2+) combined with Long-Strike means 6 Seeker Mortal Wounds dished out on a 2+ (Re-rolling 1's) Turn one)

I have found this combo be utterly brutal. Lets have a little look shall we?

With Longstrikes +1 to hit buff you have 9 Strength 7, AP-2, D2, Range 60" shots coming from the Ion Canons. Combined with just 1 Marker-Light hit (Allowing you to re-roll 1's to hit) means you can shred Terminators. As you are hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's, Wounding on 3's and taking their save to 4+. Each failed save is a dead Terminator thanks to D2.

You then have 24 Strength 5, Range 30" shots which do not need line of sight and negate cover coming from the S-M-S.

A cheeky couple of Carbine shots coming from Long-Strike himself and the ability to place wounds onto the drones rather than soaking them all up on the Tanks means they stay viable for much longer (Combined you have 55 wounds over the 3 tanks and the 16 drones, Even with focused fire you can place the wounds onto the drones)

Drone's don't protect vehicles

You spent all that for just 9 S7 shots?
Monat Suit 3xCIB+ATS ... Boom 9 S7 shots for about 150 points...

24 s5 30" guns? Who cares that's literally a Fire Warrior Squad or 2

My setup would basically match your setup for half the points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Actually seeing tournament results from an ITC tournament have calmed many of my initial fears. For now. Initially it appears I was vastly underestimating some of the new Tau stuff. So for now I will say I'm looking like I was wrong with regards to that. The first results put them 11 place out of all the many armies in the game which is pretty good.

Tau can still perform because they still have a couple of really good stuff such as CIB, ATS, Longstrike, Vespids, Gun Drones.

but the core army still has a TON of problems that needs addressing.

Wyldhunt wrote:
So now that Tau appear, at a glance, to be less over the top, I'm interested in possibly putting together a Tau force composed largely of units that you don't see spammed left and right. More specifically, I'd like to avoid the monster mash style of army and field things like...

* Kroot
* Vespid
* Drone units
* Hammerheads

I want to play an army that people actually enjoy facing, but I also don't want to make something ineffectual that gets steam-rolled every game. I know the new rules are still... er... new, but does this seem viable this edition? Kroot seem to have gotten some pros and some cons (losing outflank, gaining kroot hound units, buffs from shapers), and the krootox riders seem like they might be a half-decent source of anti-vehicle shooting if you can keep them alive.
Vespid seem like a decent, reasonably cheap sucker punch unit with a gun that can be moderately threatening to a variety of targets, and the new wound allocation mechanics mean I should always be using the sergeant's leadership. Drones seem pretty much unchanged. Hammerheads seem... expensive for the amount of anti-tank firepower you get, but it's firepower on a pretty durable platform.

What do you think? Is there a way to make Tau armies featuring multiple species, vehicles, and not a lot of suits work?

Non of these things are balls to the walls op broken. so i dont think people will hate playing against it (besides the people that groan at tau for being tau)

you can totally make this army work. just make sure you cover your bases. enough anti tank, heavy infantry and horde killing power.

i think the weakest link will be the hammer heads. as nice as they are its still a 1 shot weapon which i always fine to fail me no matter what. having at least a few suits would be a good idea. or maybe even a few piranhas to get in there and toast some things up with fusion.

Did I spend all of that for just 9 S7 shots? No... which is very clear from the post. Your response is very simplistic (The point regarding the drones taking wounds is well taken though) The suits your talking about are hitting on 4's. These shots are hitting on 2's rerolling 1's. Who cares about 24, S5, 30" Range shots that negate cover and don't need line of sight? Again, these are hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's with a ML. You say "That's two fire warrior units!" Oh so 24 fire warriors are free now? Or are you going to add them to the price of the suits you already mentioned? Taking individual elements of builds and saying that they are useless isn't a very good way of criticising a build. Look at the overall picture.

 Hollow wrote:
Lets go shopping shall we? Here's part of a list I have used twice to great effect.

The TX7 Hammerhead Menage-a-trois of DOOM!

This is the foundation of an incredibly versatile and powerful castle.

Longstrikes Gunship; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S
x2 TX7 HH; Ion Canon, x2 S.M.S

x 2 units of 8 Markerlight Drone squads

This all comes to a rather stonking 816 points! (You can add 2 Seeker Missiles to each tank for a total of 30 points over the 3 tanks if you want to throw out some Mortal Wounds, The Markers (2+) combined with Long-Strike means 6 Seeker Mortal Wounds dished out on a 2+ (Re-rolling 1's) Turn one)

I have found this combo be utterly brutal. Lets have a little look shall we?

With Longstrikes +1 to hit buff you have 9 Strength 7, AP-2, D2, Range 60" shots coming from the Ion Canons. Combined with just 1 Marker-Light hit (Allowing you to re-roll 1's to hit) means you can shred Terminators. As you are hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's, Wounding on 3's and taking their save to 4+. Each failed save is a dead Terminator thanks to D2.

You then have 24 Strength 5, Range 30" shots which do not need line of sight and negate cover coming from the S-M-S.

A cheeky couple of Carbine shots coming from Long-Strike himself and the ability to place wounds onto the drones rather than soaking them all up on the Tanks means they stay viable for much longer (Combined you have 55 wounds over the 3 tanks and the 16 drones, Even with focused fire you can place the wounds onto the drones)

Is it worth looking at some of the alternate Hammerhead turret options for use in something like this? I'm not a Tau player, but looking at something like the Heavy Bombardment version with 2x HYMP, you can exchange 1 AP for 5 extra shots per gunship at the same average damage value. The downside to that is that the HYMP version costs an extra 70 points, which is maybe too much to invest in a platform no more durable than the basic Hammerhead. It's probably also worth looking at the twin Heavy Burstcannon version, which costs roughly the same amount and puts out enough volume of fire to compete admirably against heavy infantry while crushing lighter targets.

Always worth looking at although I tend to stay away from FW related builds as I like to play pick-up games at local stores and so stick with mainline units and their options.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Don't make this appear as if the imbalance of 8th was as big as 7th.

Tau can put their weight agains't anyone apart from the 2-3 broken combos that have surfaced (Scions spam), just like Orks.

They aren't as good as in the past, and I'm glad as a Tau player.
My horde of footsloging Firewarriors love this edition.

Go read the batreps. They're out there it's not some mystical knowledge. I just don't bother linking them because even when I do no one wants to believe what I say. I'm just putting my opinion out there. I've seen quite a few Tau players shelving their armies in 8th though which is what is going to make it hard to get data. I implore everyone to share as much batrreps of Tau as they can find. Link them to me here if you want in a private message. I'm always interested in seeing more.

At my local 8th launch day I know the Tau didn't do to hot and it's only going to get worse since it's hyper competitive.

I keep seeing battle reports with Tau featuring like 10 firewarriors in 2 MSUs that don't even try to take advantage of anything they offer.

This edition enhanced infantry spam to some absurd degrees, and re-costed suits across the board.

IMO, crisis suits have always been under-costed. The simple fact that firewarrior gun-lines have never been "meta" is a mistake. You shouldn't be able to get away with fielding an army that lacks meat (unless it's specifically a tank battalion). Now that their prices have been fixed, you'll need to update your tactics. Maybe Tau are still weak even if you spam firewarriors, and if they are then they should absolutely be buffed. However, I haven't seen any battle reports that take more than 10 of them, which means that Tau players still have some experimentation to go before any decisions should be made.

If they need anything though, it's easy access to the drones that pathfinders get. It's stupid that the most useful drones you could give to firewarriors are restricted to pathfinders and only pathfinders. Though, now you can start your pathfinders next to your gunline, and just leave their OP drones back at the front line where they belong.

The problems with Tau's armies people are playing is that they are Heavy-Suit armies.

Suits are back to being support units to a core of Firewarriors as they should always been before the Firesight nonsense of full Suit armours.

40K is about armies, this is not Gundam! Stop the Giant Robots Smasfesth!

A good core of Firewarriors, with a good use of Alien Auxiliaries (Kroots and Vespids), supported by some suits, tanks and a good bunch of drones. Thats the armies Tau field in the lore, and they are the most efficient Tau armies in 8th.

To me, thats beautifull.

Arandmoor. I couldn't agree more. The min-maxing nonsense that was so prevalent in 7th, especially with T'au, really bugged me (For numerous reasons).

I'm currently sitting putting together some configurations using the Brigade detachment as a base. With 10 man Firewarrior Squads coming in at only 80 points and 10 man Kroot squads coming in at only 60 points. There has been no better time than to really beef up the numbers seen in T'au armies.

Talamare instantly started talking about Suits when the whole point of the topic was to talk about Unconventional T'au.

 Galas wrote:
The problems with Tau's armies people are playing is that they are Heavy-Suit armies.

Suits are back to being support units to a core of Firewarriors as they should always been before the Firesight nonsense of full Suit armours.

40K is about armies, this is not Gundam! Stop the Giant Robots Smasfesth!

A good core of Firewarriors, with a good use of Alien Auxiliaries (Kroots and Vespids), supported by some suits, tanks and a good bunch of drones. Thats the armies Tau field in the lore, and they are the most efficient Tau armies in 8th.

To me, thats beautifull.

Mean while back on mars

(bleh cant find any funny pictures for imperial knights the army)

but yeah i agree. also like how disposable drones are. just like how they are supposed to be.

 Hollow wrote:
Did I spend all of that for just 9 S7 shots? No... which is very clear from the post. Your response is very simplistic (The point regarding the drones taking wounds is well taken though) The suits your talking about are hitting on 4's. These shots are hitting on 2's rerolling 1's. Who cares about 24, S5, 30" Range shots that negate cover and don't need line of sight? Again, these are hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's with a ML. You say "That's two fire warrior units!" Oh so 24 fire warriors are free now? Or are you going to add them to the price of the suits you already mentioned? Taking individual elements of builds and saying that they are useless isn't a very good way of criticising a build. Look at the overall picture.

Monat Suit is BS2......................... (and rerolling 1s, but everything is rerolling 1s when it comes to Tau so hardly worth mentioning)

Cover has never been weaker, ignoring it isn't god tier anymore.
Fire Warriors comes with the advantage of being troop choice, instead of just an upgrade

The only thing 3xHH would provide would that it's fairly tanky, and you know what...
I'm not even going to diss on 3xHH since Longrails is amazing! Tho Ion Cannon is pretty garbage.


I did look at the overall picture by the way

For half the points of your build
With 2 Monat Suits for 300 points, I have literally DOUBLE the S7 Firepower
With 15 Fire Warriors in 3 different squads, I have added a ton of bodies on the table for objectives, added 3 squads that can move independent of each other, added a ton of threat at half range, added 3 markerlights, and added 3 command points...

for HALF of what you paid for
HALF... meaning I can still bring a TON OF STUFF

Some of us don't want "meat" on the table. It's still "Vegan" Tau with Suits and Drones for me, baby!

SJ

 Gamgee wrote:
Actually seeing tournament results from an ITC tournament have calmed many of my initial fears. For now. Initially it appears I was vastly underestimating some of the new Tau stuff. So for now I will say I'm looking like I was wrong with regards to that. The first results put them 11 place out of all the many armies in the game which is pretty good. My Dark Eldar and Deathwatch appear to be stronger than them.

However just to be safe let's give it a full month or two anyways just to be on the safe side and give people some more prep time to really get the full 8th armies done and painted.

I am actually glad to be wrong on this one folks. The funny thing though is I was right about Dark Eldar and Orks. Definitely picking up the full rules asap now and going to enter my local tournament to test them for myself.

You have to realise from where I am coming from I've had one of the worst life experiences with Tau hate so I was bound to be paranoid as hell trying to make sure they weren't getting junked.

Admitting you were wrong on an internet forum? Is that legal?

Seriously, respect.

For all Gamgee's faults with sometimes overreacting a bit much, he's always one of the first to admit he might have been wrong.

It's why he's a great user

 Talamare wrote:

I did look at the overall picture by the way

For half the points of your build
With 2 Monat Suits for 300 points, I have literally DOUBLE the S7 Firepower
With 15 Fire Warriors in 3 different squads, I have added a ton of bodies on the table for objectives, added 3 squads that can move independent of each other, added a ton of threat at half range, added 3 markerlights, and added 3 command points...

for HALF of what you paid for
HALF... meaning I can still bring a TON OF STUFF

OK, ignoring the fact I specifically focused on Hammerheads and what is possible with them, because you know, it was the point of the OP.

The Monat suits you are talking about provide a total of 2 HQ units with 12 T5 wounds with a3+ Armour save. 18, 18" inch S7 AP-1 D1 shots.
3x5 Firewarriors with BS 4+ S5 shots.

x3 Hammerheads with Longstrike can range from 545 to 686 Fully kitted out (Lets forget about the 16 drones for a moment as they can benefit your entire army)

There are Pros and Cons to both, however, I would say that the 3 HH's are brutal in their own right, work far better as part of a synergised army compared to what you are suggesting and was actually on topic. Unlike what you have suggested.

Aw thanks guys. Your making this fish blush.

I'm flip flopping daily on Tau. Sometimes I think viable sometimes I think not. It's so hard to tell.