Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it ok that I shed a bit of a manly tear? Seeing them doing well after listening to the community feels like an old, drug addicted friend coming back home clean as a whistle.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Who are the people?

And are the sales up because of 8th edition? Give us some context.

Or you could read the document? I appreciate not everyone has the academic or real life experience to understand every nuance, heck, I don't understand every single element and I've both studied business and run my own, but a simple glance at the document to see the dates included in the report would answer the question as to whether 8th was included in them is something any layperson could do, and by people doing their best to keep elementary questions to the minimum by educating themselves, we keep the thread cleaner and more focused, so everyone wins.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all in a discussion thread on a hobby forum for such questions to be asked. I'm browsing this thread as I have my coffee before I leave for work, and I may have similar questions but neither the time nor inclination to go read the document.

So you're quite happy to leech other people's time to answer elementary questions you don't value the answer to sufficiently to spend a tiny amount of your own time researching?

Gotya.

People expecting other people to spend their time answering questions they could easily answer themselves is right up there with requoting huge pictures or trees of nested quotes to add feth all substance to a discussion in terms of fethwit forum etiquette as far as I'm concerned.

 Azreal13 wrote:
So you're quite happy to leech other people's time to answer elementary questions you don't value the answer to sufficiently to spend a tiny amount of your own time researching?

Gotya.

People expecting other people to spend their time answering questions they could easily answer themselves is right up there with requoting huge pictures or trees of nested quotes to add feth all substance to a discussion in terms of fethwit forum etiquette as far as I'm concerned.

You can always count on Azreal to come up with the most condescending response possible when answering the question (which he allegedly knows the answer to) would be easier and faster.

But wouldn't do anything to encourage adoption of non-obnoxious forum behavior.

RULE #1 everyone - yes?

Yes, of course.

Hulksmash wrote:And to be fair about the yes man thing Frozenwastes the last one was so it wasn't out of the realm of possibility we got another yes man. I'm just glad they finally managed to put someone in the drivers seat, either by accident or design, who had the ability to remove the roadblocks gw had been operating under (that were possible) and start to turn the ship. 2 years into his tenure and we're looking at a return to volume growth. That's significant.

I think you're right. All signs pointed to Kirby's ego not allowing a successor who was not in lock step with his "vision" of declining volumes, cost cutting and rising prices as the only strategy worth employing. Probably what made it so galling to some investors was the talk of growth not happening being the fault of the sales team not hitting their numbers and his resignation that even if growth never returned, GW would still operate as a cash generating machine. He was the self styled Steve Jobs of the miniatures world, after all.

Your point about removing road blocks ties in to what Azrael13 has said. GW really was their own worst enemy and were basically taking in money despite themselves rather than because of it.

Azreal13 wrote:The reverse being that so many of the issues that were holding GW back were so mind f**kingly obvious and easy to address for a solvent company that while Rountree deserves the credit for getting in and doing it, we shouldn't get too carried away with his abilities as anything more than competent unless/until something a little more challenging than "stop alienating your customers and pricing potential new blood out of the equation" crosses his path.

I think you're right. Basically his accomplishment is largely to stop doing the obviously wrong thing. To stop alienating customers, stop front loading the costs of the hobby (which creates a massive barrier to entry) and actually communicate about upcoming products.

Excellent progress, no doubt, but much of the low hanging fruit has now been harvested, maintaining this level of performance will be a real challenge.

Rountree mentioned in both this report and the last that getting back lapsed customers is now a goal of theirs. I don't consider that to be low hanging fruit in its totality. There are certainly many, many lapsed customers who have just been waiting for an excuse to return, but I suspect many more are going to take some serious work to reach.

Right, final statement on the matter as it's off topic and there's already been Mod intervention.

Would you post in a thread about a new model release, with links to pictures, and rather than click on the link demand people describe the models to you?

No?

That's right, because doing some basic due diligence before participating in the topic of discussion is a minimum expectation, and if you can't be fethed to do even do that, then don't bother participating in the fething discussion.

By answering banal questions that are easily answered by the person asking them, you're enabling lazy behavior. By actually holding up your hands and saying "do the bare minimum needed to qualify for this discussion" you might be going to more effort, but it may at least have some sort of positive impact, either on the person you address or someone else reading who then pauses for thought before doing something similar.

But then, we inevitably end up getting sidetracked by people who are more keen to voice their opinion on the matter than either answer the question or simply not post, and end up here.

So I'm going to recuse myself from the thread for a while and leave others to get back on topic.

https://investor.games-workshop.com/2017/07/25/trading-update-6/

Trading update
JULY 25, 2017 · OTHER, RNS
For the period from 29 May 2017 to 23 July 2017

Following on from the Group’s good performance in 2016/17, trading has continued strongly into 2017/18 such that sales and profits for 2017/18 to date are well above the same period in the prior year. Profits for 2017/18 are therefore likely to be above market expectations.

However, the Board remains aware that there is some uncertainty in the trading periods ahead for the rest of the 2017/18 financial year. A further update will be given as appropriate.

I'm actually surprised there's a trade update so soon after the report.

I think what's really being said here is that the launch of 8th is going to be a big influx of cash, but it's not going to be the norm. Just because many, many people bought 8th edition stuff up until July 23, doesn't mean it's going to continue. And there are seasonal doldrums that GW is not going to magically not have just because it's "New Games Workshop."

There are going to be many people who returned to 40k with 8th edition and don't stick with it past the introductory products. So investors shouldn't go crazy with their expectations at this point.

My friend who is a junior MTG judge noted that Wizards are actually proceeding down the same road as GW did during the Kirby era, and often gets into debates on whether or not it's a good thing (with his opponents often being those of the "Company only needs to make money" mentality). He's glad that he can use this as an example where treating your customers as human beings, rather than sales figures, can actually be beneficial for all involved. The biggest one occured recently when he was watching Tolarian Community College and the Professor described a *basic* deck that costs 900 dollars (USDs no less, it would be a lot more in canadian where I live). The discussion there almost exactly mirrored those we had during the Kirby era, where there would be people comparing other hobbies to MTG and saying MTG is cheaper and so forth.

Amusingly I actually tallied up a warhammer 40k army at around 1000 points for just over half the cost of the deck. When we found the price of the then-most powerful deck, the cap went to 1700 bucks, meaning not only could I tally up an army nearing 2000 points, but also include all of the ancillary material needed to play said army for a completely new player (Rulebook, Codex, Supplements, Rulers, Dice, Templates. This was 7th edition).

EDIT: Btw the army I tallied up wasn't one of those armies that used cheap alternatives. I made a DkoK armylist. Granted, a lot of it assumed you wouldn't be buying the purely aesthetic upgraded tanks, but it was at least infantry-based with platoons and whatnot, so it wasn't on the cheap end of the scale either.

This is all very encouraging news

It's interesting to note that the new edition of Warhammer was available for pre-order June 3rd, so the sales will instead count towards the next financial year's reports ('17-'18). With such a significant boost in sales from the new edition already, their bottom line will likely increase again next year.

Congratulations to Rountree and the new direction. Shareholders will benefit financially, but it's the gamers who will benefit the most from an engaged and expansive GW.

Just gotta tap into that Asian market and the bottom line will continue to grow for the next few years.

mightymconeshot wrote:
I love how in the pre-amble Kirby basically praises all the things that he refused to do and say it was the source of all this wonderful growth.

But good for them. Wish I had some stock with them, but still good for them.

Where is this? In the document linked to in the OP, it looks like it's all by Rountree, not Kirby?

 RiTides wrote:

mightymconeshot wrote:
I love how in the pre-amble Kirby basically praises all the things that he refused to do and say it was the source of all this wonderful growth.

But good for them. Wish I had some stock with them, but still good for them.

Where is this? In the document linked to in the OP, it looks like it's all by Rountree, not Kirby?

You can go here and see it: https://investor.games-workshop.com/chairmans-preamble/

I find the comment in his preamble, "At heart Games Workshop is a simple business. We make and sell toy soldiers," interesting. Not that Kirby hasn't said that before -- he's really just doubling down on the thought -- but the optics suggest he says it in direct contradiction of the results that the game updates have provided over the last year (for AoS and 40k), and the popularity of game product releases like SW:A, and retro hype around Talisman. Like that that comment was his last "FUUUUU!"


*** EDIT: I actually find a good portion of the investor site reeks of the "Toy Soldiers" thing, with significant emphasis on "As soon as you buy your first model soldier you’re a collector." I (with admittedly some bias) note a deliberate lack of emphasis on the gaming part. Is that somehow more appealing to investors in someone's mind? Maybe that site gets revamped post Kirby.

iodan333 wrote:


*** EDIT: I actually find a good portion of the investor site reeks of the "Toy Soldiers" thing, with significant emphasis on "As soon as you buy your first model soldier you’re a collector." I (with admittedly some bias) note a deliberate lack of emphasis on the gaming part. Is that somehow more appealing to investors in someone's mind? Maybe that site gets revamped post Kirby.

From an investor perspective, probably. They're less interested in "how are the fans liking the product?" than they are in "are the customers likely to continue buying the product?" Most investors (in any industry) seem to miss the connection between the two questions.