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 mmzero252 wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Wait you thought anyone influencing the result was real? The way everything has been set up so far points to a crushing Imperial victory to suit their new fancy space marine army men. Played a game today and almost lost even though we tabled the imperials...because they got double our points for every unit destroyed.

man from the whining you'd think Chaos didn't have Marines.

honestly my gut feeling is this is more intended as a guard nerf then anything else

Well it's not a Tyranid nerf.

3+ armor saves for everyone!

*brings mass Carnifex list*

BrianDavion wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Wait you thought anyone influencing the result was real? The way everything has been set up so far points to a crushing Imperial victory to suit their new fancy space marine army men. Played a game today and almost lost even though we tabled the imperials...because they got double our points for every unit destroyed.

man from the whining you'd think Chaos didn't have Marines.

honestly my gut feeling is this is more intended as a guard nerf then anything else

This is a global campaign for EVERYONE. It's not a marines and chaos campaign alone. They are the two sides but everyone should fairly be able to influence the result and compete. Sadly that's not how this is being represented.

 mmzero252 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Wait you thought anyone influencing the result was real? The way everything has been set up so far points to a crushing Imperial victory to suit their new fancy space marine army men. Played a game today and almost lost even though we tabled the imperials...because they got double our points for every unit destroyed.

man from the whining you'd think Chaos didn't have Marines.

honestly my gut feeling is this is more intended as a guard nerf then anything else

This is a global campaign for EVERYONE. It's not a marines and chaos campaign alone. They are the two sides but everyone should fairly be able to influence the result and compete. Sadly that's not how this is being represented.

I don't disagree it sucks, my point is that arguing it's some sort of screw job to chaos is inaccurate given that there are proably a lot more Iom armies that lack that 3+ save then chaos. (I could be wrong but I see more Guard then I see deamons

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Welcome to Season of War from AoS. GW dropped Sylvaneth just before it started and they were THE army at the time. Of the 4 Grand Alliances (Order, Chaos, Death, Destruction) guess which won everywhere every week?

The difference here is that its supposed to be a new location and a new battle every week but I think we ALL know where this is going

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


By that logic, any mission favors the Imperium, because literally half the factions in the game are Imperium.

I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

Slighted? Not the word I would use.

"Ignored". That's the word I would use.

I stopped playing 40k back in 6th because it felt like if you weren't marines, you were 2nd class. It felt like you had "picked the wrong faction" when you built your army and had to be punished for it.

I came back for 8th because I was so impressed with AoS once they got their feet underneath them.

It's nice to see that it looks as if nothing has changed. Depending on how they do the Xenos armies, my return to 40k could be short.

GW really needs to get off their asses and write some material for a faction that doesn't rime with "Mace Latrines".

BrianDavion wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Wait you thought anyone influencing the result was real? The way everything has been set up so far points to a crushing Imperial victory to suit their new fancy space marine army men. Played a game today and almost lost even though we tabled the imperials...because they got double our points for every unit destroyed.

man from the whining you'd think Chaos didn't have Marines.

honestly my gut feeling is this is more intended as a guard nerf then anything else

This mission favors elite armies and elite infantry or vehicles with good firepower.

Guard are fine if they go vehicle heavy.

Eldar can go with vehicles, wraith units, scorpions, reapers. Necrons have flyers, destroyers, elite infantry, monolith. Tau are fine.

Tyranids and Orks are struggling but they can field decent armies that are 3+ heavy. (Fexes and kans/dreads)

Dark Eldar are boned.

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


By that logic, any mission favors the Imperium, because literally half the factions in the game are Imperium.

I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

Slighted? Not the word I would use.

"Ignored". That's the word I would use.

I stopped playing 40k back in 6th because it felt like if you weren't marines, you were 2nd class. It felt like you had "picked the wrong faction" when you built your army and had to be punished for it.

I came back for 8th because I was so impressed with AoS once they got their feet underneath them.

It's nice to see that it looks as if nothing has changed. Depending on how they do the Xenos armies, my return to 40k could be short.

GW really needs to get off their asses and write some material for a faction that doesn't rime with "Mace Latrines".

you act like it never happens, xenos codices in 6th and 7th where some of the best in the game. there have been eldar focused novels there was a Apoclypse campaign book published for 6th edition that was eldar vs tyranids. . the bulk of the focus of course is, as always on humanity. it's strange that you'd think the setting was built and written by humans or something

Eldar have had the best codex in the game in every edition where they got a codex.

On the other hand Blood Angels have bounced back and forth between awesome and terrible as each new codex has dropped.

IIRC doesn't the attacker (Imperium) get Kill Points only while the defender (Chaos) has to hold their ground?

Complete role reversal of the first scenario...which I found being a defender was advantageous.

Sure the Imperium technically should have an advantage since it won week one...I don't think it should be KP. Another strategem as opposed to Chaos' one.

And it should have been a straight forward mission week one, equal points on either side, just holding objectives. No KP for destroying the closest units and denying victory.

GeeDerps wouldn't know what balance was if it fell on them from high orbit. Quelle surprise.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


By that logic, any mission favors the Imperium, because literally half the factions in the game are Imperium.

I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

Slighted? Not the word I would use.

"Ignored". That's the word I would use.

I stopped playing 40k back in 6th because it felt like if you weren't marines, you were 2nd class. It felt like you had "picked the wrong faction" when you built your army and had to be punished for it.

I came back for 8th because I was so impressed with AoS once they got their feet underneath them.

It's nice to see that it looks as if nothing has changed. Depending on how they do the Xenos armies, my return to 40k could be short.

GW really needs to get off their asses and write some material for a faction that doesn't rime with "Mace Latrines".

you act like it never happens, xenos codices in 6th and 7th where some of the best in the game. there have been eldar focused novels there was a Apoclypse campaign book published for 6th edition that was eldar vs tyranids. . the bulk of the focus of course is, as always on humanity. it's strange that you'd think the setting was built and written by humans or something

It's not about "who's the best". It's about how much the various factions get fleshed out.

If your good guys are good, the bad guys need to be better. The antagonist in a story needs to be the hero of his own story. And right now, the Xenos armies, if they are supposed to be the bad guys to the "good" of the imperium, are woefully underdeveloped. We know that they exist, and that's about it. We know that when they attack, it's bad news, but we don't know much else. Chaos is the only bad faction that has any initiative in the galaxy. They're the only ones doing anything that matters!

We've got factions in the game that are as old as the freaking space marines themselves, and we barely know jack :beep: about them because GW never bothered writing anything! Where are the hive fleets right now? What are they doing? What impact are they having on the game's canon? What important worlds have they devoured lately that caused anyone to change anything about anything?

How about the Necrons? Dynasties are waking up, and troops are moving, and...???

How about the Eldar? They helped girlyman wake up, but what are the craftworlds up to? Do we even know the names of any of the maiden worlds? What ARE maiden worlds? What happens on them? How do they affect the galaxy? Why are they important?

The T'au are expanding again! And??? Does anyone even care?

Are the Orks still attacking armageddon? Did that actually affect anything? Was Cadia lost because of the lack of munitions and reinforcements from the involved worlds? No? Then what's the point? Why does anyone care? Did the orks get anything from Armegeddon? Any new units? Models? Characters? (Thrakka and Yarrik, so yeah...people got something there)

Hive Fleet Behemoth and Hive Fleet Kraken are obviously different in genetic makeup and overall strategy. But they both operate off of the same codex, and their only difference on the table is the paint scheme. Meanwhile, if you want to place emo-space marines, you've got three different BOOKS to choose from. Do you want to be emo-because-of-blood? Emo-because-of-past-mistakes? Or custom-emo? Or you could be space vikings! Or space magic-marines (gray knights)! Choices!

Behemoth vs Kraken? Paint scheme. Vs eldar munching kraken splinter fleet? Take more zoanthropes.

And this isn't me pointing out that Tyranids are strange and un-supported. This is standard for every army that is NOT space marines. It's always been this way.

The xenos armies need to be fleshed out. Marines have been fleshed out, and now they've got primaris marines...because they obviously needed more stuff
Chaos are getting fleshed out more with two new codicies. I'm actually excited here! (Gib Thousand Sons!)

I want the same for the rest of the factions because the game needs the diversity. When you meet a marine player, you ask them what they're playing because you don't really know. Dark angels are different from blood angels, are different from Space Wolves, are different from salamanders, are different from imperial fists, etc.

If your opponent is playing Orks...Goffs? Evil Sunz? Blood Axes? Doesn't matter. How many boyz have they got?

 Arandmoor wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


By that logic, any mission favors the Imperium, because literally half the factions in the game are Imperium.

I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

Slighted? Not the word I would use.

"Ignored". That's the word I would use.

I stopped playing 40k back in 6th because it felt like if you weren't marines, you were 2nd class. It felt like you had "picked the wrong faction" when you built your army and had to be punished for it.

I came back for 8th because I was so impressed with AoS once they got their feet underneath them.

It's nice to see that it looks as if nothing has changed. Depending on how they do the Xenos armies, my return to 40k could be short.

GW really needs to get off their asses and write some material for a faction that doesn't rime with "Mace Latrines".

you act like it never happens, xenos codices in 6th and 7th where some of the best in the game. there have been eldar focused novels there was a Apoclypse campaign book published for 6th edition that was eldar vs tyranids. . the bulk of the focus of course is, as always on humanity. it's strange that you'd think the setting was built and written by humans or something

It's not about "who's the best". It's about how much the various factions get fleshed out.

If your good guys are good, the bad guys need to be better. The antagonist in a story needs to be the hero of his own story. And right now, the Xenos armies, if they are supposed to be the bad guys to the "good" of the imperium, are woefully underdeveloped. We know that they exist, and that's about it. We know that when they attack, it's bad news, but we don't know much else.

We've got factions in the game that are as old as the freaking space marines themselves, and we barely know jack :beep: about them because GW never bothered writing anything!

For example, Hive Fleet Behemoth and Hive Fleet Kraken are obviously different in genetic makeup and overall strategy. But they both opperate off of the same codex, and their only difference on the table is the paint scheme. Meanwhile, if you want to place emo-space marines, you've got three different BOOKS to choose from. Do you want to be emo-because-of-blood? Emo-because-of-past-mistakes? Or custom-emo? Or you could be space vikings! Or space magic-marines (gray knights)! Choices!

Behemoth vs Kraken? Paint scheme. Vs eldar munching kraken splinter fleet? Take more zoanthropes.

And this isn't me pointing out that Tyranids are strange and un-supported. This is standard for every army that is NOT space marines. It's always been this way.

The xenos armies need to be fleshed out. Marines have been fleshed out, and now they've got primaris marines...because they obviously needed more stuff
Chaos are getting fleshed out more with two new codicies. I'm actually excited here!

I want the same for the rest of the factions because the game needs the diversity. When you meet a marine player, you ask them what they're playing because you don't really know. Dark angels are different from blood angels, are different from Space Wolves, are different from salamanders, are different from imperial fists, etc.

If your opponent is playing Orks...how many boyz is he bringing?

You miss the part where the Eldar have had books written about them, and where they do get characterization of them in books where they are the villain? Or the fact that they were the MAIN CHARACTERS of one of the Gathering Storm books. Did you miss Necrons getting an entire revamp to give them characterization? Cause that happened, people hated it, but it happened.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


You miss the part where the Eldar have had books written about them, and where they do get characterization of them in books where they are the villain? Or the fact that they were the MAIN CHARACTERS of one of the Gathering Storm books. Did you miss Necrons getting an entire revamp to give them characterization? Cause that happened, people hated it, but it happened.

And Necrons and Orks still have only 1 book each. Same with Nids. Eldar have two, and they've been around since nearly the beginning.

People hated the necron revamp because all it did was make them into Tomb Lords IIIIIIIIIN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! rather than into a unique army. It was lazy, even if some of the units were cool (the original death ray on the death shrouds was awesome. RIP Death Ray)

Why are people so opposed to anyone who isn't a space marine getting anything even close to what space marines enjoy? You're not the first. I've seen people on facebook do the same thing! "Why aren't you happy with the one book you've already got?"

Um...maybe because I want to know more about <insert non-marine faction here> and the lore simply doesn't exist except where they do a half-dozen things that are mentioned in their codex or the basic book that really only give a cliff notes read on, and other stories where space marines kicked the crap out of them this one time.

They're adding in [Order/Regiment/Craftworld/Dynasty/Forgeworld/Hive Fleet/Cult/Clan/Cabal/Sept] traits in the codecies.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
They're adding in [Order/Regiment/Craftworld/Dynasty/Forgeworld/Hive Fleet/Cult/Clan/Cabal/Sept] traits in the codecies.

indeed, they are fleshing these things out however at the same time, they also want to leave some mystery because that makes it work better.

and with a lot of the xenos factions a bit of Mystery is important, also the past few years IMHO the necrons and tyranids had kind of taken center stage, coming off as the big threats, chaos needed some attention and love in that regard. ultimately though, and this isn't a bash of them, just the way it is, the Xenos factions are more the "B plot"

weather or not they should be is a fair thing to debate, but that is the way it is. don't get me wrong though I'd love to see a campaign focusing on the IoM vs I dunno a necron Dynesty.

Look...if you can't answer questions while, at the same time, creating more, in a universe that YOU ARE CREATING AT THE TIME, you should NOT be a writer. It's that simple.

Wait, I thought both sides had the point per unit killed victory points thing?

Edit: yep, they do. At first I misread it but then realized I was confusing strategems with victory conditions.

BrianDavion wrote:

weather or not they should be is a fair thing to debate, but that is the way it is. don't get me wrong though I'd love to see a campaign focusing on the IoM vs I dunno a necron Dynesty.

You mean like imperial armour 12?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

weather or not they should be is a fair thing to debate, but that is the way it is. don't get me wrong though I'd love to see a campaign focusing on the IoM vs I dunno a necron Dynesty.

You mean like imperial armour 12?

no, that was a forge world book, detailing a historical battle as it where. I'm talking more an active campaign ala Kronor.

still you're proably right that we're not likely to see summer campaigns ala kronor featuring xenos so much as we are to see story campaign books ala the wraith of magnus, or the one involving tau that came out awhile back

I feel like Space Marines were put into the position to simply win this, so they don't have to jump the awkward hoops of having to retcon a Chaos win.
Two main factions. One has a codex the entire campaign, the other has to wait until halfway into this.

Fits into their fluff of Grimdark 'Imperium is doomed' but Space Marines have never been as powerful as they are right now.

/complaining rant

 Mayk0l wrote:
I feel like Space Marines were put into the position to simply win this, so they don't have to jump the awkward hoops of having to retcon a Chaos win.
Two main factions. One has a codex the entire campaign, the other has to wait until halfway into this.

Fits into their fluff of Grimdark 'Imperium is doomed' but Space Marines have never been as powerful as they are right now.

/complaining rant

Eh, I would not put it past them.

It's pretty obvious to me this is skewed just like Season of War to fit their narrative (The heroic imperium led by everyone's hero and savior Guilliman fighting back in a time of darkness, just like for AOS it was Order pushing back Chaos). Everything they've shown thus far has been subtly done to all but guarantee an Imperial victory in Konor and can wax poetic about how "against all odds, the Primaris Space Marines saved the day"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

weather or not they should be is a fair thing to debate, but that is the way it is. don't get me wrong though I'd love to see a campaign focusing on the IoM vs I dunno a necron Dynesty.

You mean like imperial armour 12?

no, that was a forge world book, detailing a historical battle as it where. I'm talking more an active campaign ala Kronor.

still you're proably right that we're not likely to see summer campaigns ala kronor featuring xenos so much as we are to see story campaign books ala the wraith of magnus, or the one involving tau that came out awhile back

How is an IA campaign book different from the non-FW campaign books?

You're unlikely to see a Kronor style campaign with Necrons as one of the primary factions simply because not that many people play them. Unless they start doing this every year or something.

Considering the fact that the campaign uses unbound armies it was already unbalanced. If it really bothers you that much here's the solution: play chaos versus chaos (they specifically say you can do that). Put a traitor knight on one side and a unit of 10 cultists on the other. Take turns murdering the cultists. Report 60 wins for chaos after only spending 15ish minutes on the campaign. Then go play a real game of 40k.

orkychaos wrote:
Considering the fact that the campaign uses unbound armies it was already unbalanced. If it really bothers you that much here's the solution: play chaos versus chaos (they specifically say you can do that). Put a traitor knight on one side and a unit of 10 cultists on the other. Take turns murdering the cultists. Report 60 wins for chaos after only spending 15ish minutes on the campaign. Then go play a real game of 40k.

Chaos approves of cheating. Betrayal and underhanded tactics are commonplace.

This mission is ridiculous, playing AdMech at 2000 pts two games both times as attacker. The scenario gives no reason whatsoever for the attacker to move out so I spent my second game holed up in a corner for the bulk of my army. Lost first game against Chaos with a score of about 26-6 because of the double points (I played badly too, he would've won anyway) and the second game against Necrons I destroyed more than half of his army and lost 8-5 because no units of mine with a 3+ or 2+ made a kill, while I lost 4 units that combined aren't worth more than 350 pts.

Hope next scenario is decent because that's just a lazy mission.

 Mayk0l wrote:
I feel like Space Marines were put into the position to simply win this, so they don't have to jump the awkward hoops of having to retcon a Chaos win.
Two main factions. One has a codex the entire campaign, the other has to wait until halfway into this.

Fits into their fluff of Grimdark 'Imperium is doomed' but Space Marines have never been as powerful as they are right now.

/complaining rant

After the screaming over Warzone: Damocles from Space Marine fanboys at the sheer audacity of the Tau winning a battle (not to mention the Eye of Terror result tears) I can hardly blame GW for not wanting to write Space Marines as anything but amazing and epic and the best ever br0,

And people said (say?) CSMs players were whiners. Wew.

Well then I can't wait for the lore to advance to the point were the Emperor is murdered by Zombie Horus and replaced by Guilliman, who is crowned the next Everchosen by Cypher as he succeeds his mission to appoint an Emperor's successor.

Then again, with their stocks worth between 2 and 4 times what they have been, GW might just pad the company up, sell it to Disney, then retire in glory while we get Warhammer 40k movies, comic books, action figures, and Marvel rebooting the entire universe every 2 years.

Now is the time to field only gorkanauts with ghaz and meganobz inside. Waaaaagh