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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/11 02:40:59
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The specific permission is the standard chaos codex. No where does it state that the Legion Rules specify which units to take and nowhere does it mention in the Alpha Legion Rules that you can't take beasts of Greater Deamons. So since there is no restriction therefore the standard codex rules apply.
40k is a permissive ruleset (though nowhere does it actually say that), so when you are talking about variant lists the only restriction to the core codex (or permissions) are those imposed by the variant army list.
No mention = no restriction
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/11 03:34:33
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Er. Mahu, you're being silly. Every single special list specifies which unit restrictions there are. All the mark lists, Night Lords, Word Bearers, etc, all have limitations on unit selection. Night lords get to move their force org around and can't have demon packs (furies yes), for instance. Wordbearers have a special option to take any kind of demon. The 'Daemons' section specifically says what kinds of demons they can summon - it says:
-Alpha legion cannot normally rely on daemons -only cultists can have icons -because they may have cultists which may carry icons: Alpha Legion may include: Daemon packs, possessed, daemon princes. conclusion: Without cultusts they may not include any daemons at all.
If you want to get technical there's a restriction that the world has to have secured the belief of Chaos cults, whatever that means in game terms.
Not only does this mean no greater daemons but it means no greater daemons, because they are not on the list.
There's no mention that they can't take landspeeders either.
Sure it is kind of hazy but it's pretty clear what daemons they can take just like it's clear that Iron Warriors can't have daemons and Nightlords can have multiple units of raptors. Every specialist army has restrictions and just because CSM screwed up and didn't bullet-point every rule for alphalegion for you like they did IW/WB/NL doesn't mean you can be a knob about it and make up your own rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/11 16:44:44
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Number one your conclusion is false. A fluff statement does not a rule make. Sure Alpha Legion cannot normally rely on Deamons. O.K. prove that is a restriction. I am waiting.
I am not making up rules either, by your resoning, no specific legion can take CSM sqauds because "it doesn't state you can take them".
Have we gone on so long with-out variant list that we have lost touch with the very basics on how to use them? Seriously, a variant list basically says that the units you can take and the way you field an army does not change unless the variant list says so. So unless the Alpha Legion rules says you can't take beasts and Greater Deamons, than you can.
The only thing they restrict is where you can place the Icons. And sure it gives a list of units they can take, but like my chocolate example above, saying you can take units is not a restriction unless it stated something to the effect of "the only deamons that can be taken are..." which it doesn't, nor does it say anything remotely similar. Only that "they can't normally relly on Deamons". Here is an example of why that isn't a restriction:
I have 20 employees.
I can't normally relly on 10 employees.
20 employees showed up today.
Sure I can't relly on those 10, but that didn't stop them from showing up one day.
So please PLEASE, show me where the restriction is, because I agree with everybody that wasn't designer intent and every Alpha Legion player will avoid taking those units, but the pure choking RAW says something different.
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/11 16:58:33
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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It's not a fluff statement. It's in the special rules section.
It says "you can't have any demons, except when you have cultists, in which case you can have daemon packs. you may also have possessed and daemon princes." It says it in a fluffy fashion but that's what it says.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/12 01:59:10
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Than you are wrong.
I does not say that, I wish it does but it doesn't. Unless you can quote an actual rule that says that then no rule exists.
And again, you will be hard pressed to prove "can't normally relly" = "can't take".
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/12 12:37:10
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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OK then. If you want to play it like that and not read the 'because of this, they may take daemon packs' - the 'because of' suggests that the previous text was saying 'no daemons except:'
Then you have to prove to me that you have secured the belief of Chaos cults on the world we're playing on before every game if you want to take daemons. And no, taking cultists doesn't prove this, since nowhere does is say that having cultists == having their belief secured.
See: "When operating on a world where they have secured the belief of Chaos Cults, they will gladly add Daemons to the diversity of their attacks."
But I guess you could read that to say that they can take daemons without believing cultists, but they just won't be happy about it.
This argument sucks. Why do they try to make the rules sound fluffy again? Fluff in the fluff section, rules in the rules section.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/12 15:35:25
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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[DCM]
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Wait! Did you just agree with Mahu?
Mahu must have the Demagogue ability...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/13 02:13:04
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I do play Word Bearers...
I agree the argument does suck. This is probably the best example of RAW versus Intent. This is why GW needs to have clearly written rules (though to be fair CoD book has no glaring inconsistancy).
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/06/13 02:41:27
Subject: RE: 1850 Alpha legion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Rules in one section, Fluffy bunnies in another section. Easy peasy.
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