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Night Lords have always been my favorite of all time. They were led by batman. They took a role they knew they would be persecuted for, but still did it because they knew it had to be done and were willing to pay the price for it.
They embodied loyalty and the greater good over even their own honor.

 Elbows wrote:
That doesn't make them any more interesting though...

You are confusing "they do not intrest me" with "they are not intresting, at all" I find Ultramarines much MUCH more intreasting then the space wolves. Ultramarines have some evidance of depth and intreast in their background, Space Wolves? I like em but at the same time they read kinda juvinile. like something written because a 12 year old kid thought it sounded cool. "AND THEY'RE VIKING WEREWOLF SPACE MARINES MAN!"

U;tramarines have, (when GW bothers to explore it) a lot more nuance

To be fair, even a chapter specifically made to be bland and featureless can have appeal. After all, they're faceless soldiers of the Imperium who fight and die for its people without seeking fame or without desiring to stick out and unique.

Ultramarines aren't that, though. They have their own distinct flavor and a strong differentiation from generic marines. A lot of people just don't think their flavor is very appealing, or at least that it's often very poorly done. I hold the same opinion of space wolves; they just went too wolfy.

I would say ironhands.

When the lore says they are bff whit ad mech and they consider beeing placed in a dreadnought the higest honor there is, that makes them rather different from the other founding chapters, and moust likely is the reason to why GW dont want to elaborate the chapter or give it more time in the spotlight.

Almost everyone that I run into starts off with, "Ultramarines suck!"

I respond with, "hmm, why do they suck?"

they respond, "Because.....they're boring."

I nod and ask, "Why are they boring?"

What I get next is often they same thing I hear from everyone....it's always along the lines of, "They have a stupid background.....they are smurfs or they are GW's poster children."

If I push anymore they usually have blank stares followed by the sound of crickets because they just regurgitate what everyone else says.............. kinda like the hate Nickleback gets and they make millions every year!

Ultramarines. By "underrated" I mean people unfairly form a negative opinion of them. Everyone hates them and judges them because of a couple lines in an old codex, and the fact they appear on the box art.

People call them "Mary Sues" when the Greys, Bangles, Dangles, and Yiffs also have powerful named characters AND their own codexes with special units.

I got into 40k because of the Ultramarines and love the whole space-Roman aesthetic. The more I've read about them the more I like. I especially like Guilliman in the fluff.

warhammerScythes_of_the_Emperor40k.wikia.com/wiki/

Because of:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8630/advanced-space-crusade

The coolest board game GW made with their MB partnership

And the seed of the chapter is based on Guillmane breaking his own codex astartes rules.

I actually dislike the Ultramarines for the following reasons:

1.a.) They are The Mario. They have some flaws, some perks, but nothing really that stands out. Most people don't even realize that, between the Mongol Marines that is the White Scars, the Viking Werewolves that is the Space Wolves, the Vampire/Angels that are the Blood Angels, Ultramarines are suppose to be Roman. At least the HH shows off this aspect to a degree, but it's so buried in the current fluff (in that what is uniquely Roman isn't unique to them, due to the codex astartes). Aside from the Tyrannic Wars, they don't seem to have many of the issues or nuances that the other chapters have. Note that I have a similar issue with the Dark Angels who, outside of Ravenwing and Deathwing, seem to be just "green ultramarines". The "Monastic Knights" aspect is something not many people know about.

1.b.) They're boring on the tabletop too. Facing them and playing them (yes, I own a small Ultra force). Granted, this is designed into them, but combined with the fact that something like 30% of marine players (who constitute anywhere from 50-75% of the total player base) play them, it gets rather tedious. Necrons are frustrating. 7th ed Tyranids were too easy, but Marines were just...boring.

2.) The amount of characters. This ties into another one of my pet peeves about the game but Ultramarines are just bleeding characters. They have almost their entire command structure named and given models. And their lore (with the exception of Cassius, who suffered a good number of butt kickings and PTSD) tends to be "they accomplished something someone else of equal rank in another chapter could never hope to achieve". I actually like the newer fluff of Calgar having his worldview destroyed by his primarch because it showed some flaw in him.

3.) They're EVERYWHERE. I don't know about you guys but I always, ALWAYS encounter some yoof yipping about how awesome the Ultramarines are because of how perfect they are. Not to mention Ultramarine players (at least here) seem to develop that same mary sue mentality; if anything defeats them, it's obviously overpowered and needs to be nerfed. If they beat you, obviously you sucked and your army is just fine. I actually questioned this once (in real life) and literally got the answer "but they're the good guys, they're not suppose to lose". This was the worst during the Gladius era. It's not at all helped by the fact that the local Gas station is literally called "Ultramar Gas". I just can't get away.

Oh, right...

Can I change my answer to: any and all Blood Angel's successor chapters named: "Crimson [insert word]"?

There's a ton of them and nobody *ever* talks about them.

Iron Hands. They are so awesome in fluff but seem like an afterthought in the game.

+1 to Rainbow Warriors. They are in the very first edition and don't get anything from recent fluff or the codex. C'mon!

I'd like the iron warriors to be a fully supported chaos faction so they could add a chaos side that wasn't all about a chaos god/demons.

The Steel Confessors. An Iron Hands Successor Chapter that was formed in secret to do the Ad Mech's dirty work, until the Inquisition found out and forced the Ad Mech to "set them free" so to speak.

Relictors

Very little fluff about... But what there is was awesome.

Classic case of technically heretic but kind of not/fights for the imperium but probably serving chaos sorta situation

I couldn't pick just one so I went by period. First founding I find the Iron Hands fairly underrated. Everything about them, including their boring Primarchs name literally being Iron Hand and him being dismissed like a sack of potatoes by Fulgrim.

2nd founding, the Crimson Fists. Their spot light is often stolen by their father chapter the Imperial Fists and their brother/sister chapter the Black Templars. Between the Imperial Fists being the defenders of Terra and the chapter of Sigismund, the Black Templars and their glorious number of crusades the Crimsons fall into the shadows. Only featured on the codex cover art once, in third edition (granted that is more than most all other chapters, the smurfs keep stealing the cover...), the Crimsons Fists are a fierce and tough chapter. Their Chapter has almost been wiped out numerous times and at least twice under Kantor and they refuse to give up. Almost wiped out another time during the Declates Crusade where they and the Black Templar were so wounded by the Ork waagh that they actually had mixed units of Crimsons and Templar within the same ranks. The Crimson Fists don't see much love from GW and I've only seen one other person in my city use them, and that's my friend. They are fairly underrated and over looked.

The Cursed Founding. Sorry, once again another Imperial Fist successor... The Soul Drinkers. To be fair, the cursed foundings in general are underrated and have little fluff on them. I chose the Soul Drinkers because I find their story both interesting and sad. They were declared Excommunicate Traitoris by the Inquisition because of some Chaos mutations but still fought for the emperor and their family in yellow the Imperial Fists during a plot to seize the Imperial Fists Fortress-Monastery the Phalanx. A plot that was initiated by a member in their own ranks, a Venerable Dreadnaught Daenyathos. The Soul Drinkers died to the man defending the Phalanx in the name of the Emperor adding themselves to my list of underrated chapters.

And last, because I could go on for days, the Minotaurs. A chapter that was on the brink of being declared Excommunicate Traitoris because of the abnormal chapter practices until the High Lords of Terra told the Inquisition off. This chapter has some major sting pulling to have the High Lords defending them! Most of their fame is from the Badab war against the Astral Claws, Mantis Warriors and the Executioners rebellion. The Minotaurs fought along side many other chapters including the Salamanders to victory. Unlike most chapters, the Minotaurs don't enter a conflict company at a time, they more or less dump the entire chapter onto the enemies head and wreck face. Plus they have a berserk dreadnaught as an HQ that fluff wise murders almost as many allies as he does enemies. Don't shoot Hecaton Aiakos with a lasgun you silly peasants!

In all, I think a lot of the earlier fluff including the Black Templars crusades like the Declates war with the Crimson Fists, the Cursed Founding and the Badab war are fairly underrated period with a number of great, over looked chapters.

I can only comment for 1st founding

Iron Hands, certainly. But I feel more for Raven Guard. Seems to me most RG players do it by their rules than by their fluff.
We all know how Salamanders take care of the population they're protecting and such... but RG do it too - almost to the same degree. But all people remember is 'we're stealthy and jump packy!'

I don't know about "underrated" per se, but in terms of Chapters consistently getting passed over in favour of the "cool kids": Iron Hands, Raven Guard and White Scars are definitely the former and Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves the latter.

Iron Hands most def. Fluff wise they have some stuff going on, but I do think it's a shame that they don't have basically any special characters or models. You would think that a Chapter so adept with vehicles should have their own marks and variations of the classic Marine tanks.

Oh yeah, and those two excommunicated legions from before the Horus Heresy. Quite literally no one speaks of them, atleast in the fluff.

 Da-Rock wrote:
Almost everyone that I run into starts off with, "Ultramarines suck!"

I respond with, "hmm, why do they suck?"

they respond, "Because.....they're boring."

I nod and ask, "Why are they boring?"

What I get next is often they same thing I hear from everyone....it's always along the lines of, "They have a stupid background.....they are smurfs or they are GW's poster children."

If I push anymore they usually have blank stares followed by the sound of crickets because they just regurgitate what everyone else says.............. kinda like the hate Nickleback gets and they make millions every year!

I was with you until the Nickle-back analogy. You didn't just compare the Ultramarine's to Nickle-back did you - UGH!? I'd say no on that one - the real reason Nickleback gets so much hate is not because their music is anymore terrible than any other mainstream rock band. It's because their lead singer is fugly and they became fun to hate on as a result.

Ultramarines are far from ugly. The are regal - literally laced with gold. They are the embodiment of perfection - and they know it. I was more of a dark angel kind of guy until I played - Spacemarine - which is probably the best warhammer game ever - it forces you to play an Ultramarine captain and I grew to really love the Ultras as a result. As far as their history - it's extensive and interesting. Currently their fluff is amazing - they are the saviors of humanity right now - everyone is just trying to keep up.

Are they Underrated? Yep. The annology I would use would be to compare them to the NE patriots. Lots of haters because they win. Tom Brady is to Captain America is to Robote Guilliman.

 Ruberu wrote:

The Cursed Founding. Sorry, once again another Imperial Fist successor... The Soul Drinkers. To be fair, the cursed foundings in general are underrated and have little fluff on them. I chose the Soul Drinkers because I find their story both interesting and sad. They were declared Excommunicate Traitoris by the Inquisition because of some Chaos mutations but still fought for the emperor and their family in yellow the Imperial Fists during a plot to seize the Imperial Fists Fortress-Monastery the Phalanx. A plot that was initiated by a member in their own ranks, a Venerable Dreadnaught Daenyathos. The Soul Drinkers died to the man defending the Phalanx in the name of the Emperor adding themselves to my list of underrated chapters.

To verify: You do know they have a series of Soul Drinker Novels, right?

^I do, but I have not had a chance to read them yet. I have a huge back log of books I'm still working on and I'm a terribaly slow reader haha.

There's a couple of chapters I've been wishing would be fleshed out some more and over the years i've been sorely tempted to start each of them

*Marines Malevolant

*Scythes of the Emperor

*Exorcists

*Imperial Harbingers

*Iron snakes

The fact that the best defense Ultramarines players can come up with for their faction being "underrated" is comparisons to Nickelback and the New England Patriots really tells you everything you need to know about Ultramarines players.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
That doesn't make them any more interesting though...

You are confusing "they do not intrest me" with "they are not intresting, at all" I find Ultramarines much MUCH more intreasting then the space wolves. Ultramarines have some evidance of depth and intreast in their background, Space Wolves? I like em but at the same time they read kinda juvinile. like something written because a 12 year old kid thought it sounded cool. "AND THEY'RE VIKING WEREWOLF SPACE MARINES MAN!"

U;tramarines have, (when GW bothers to explore it) a lot more nuance

That's where I disagree with you. Ultramarines WERE more interesting than the Space Wolves pre Ward.
Pre Ward the Ultramarines had the question of duty to the Codex vs actually doing right by the people they were protecting hanging over their heads, post Ward with his spiritual leige BS the Ultramarines have become plain, while the other chapters are flavoured icecream the smurfs are not even vanilla, they're plain and they're still called the best flavour by one guy who should have been removed but was instead sent on an extended holiday.

The Wolves have a decent story, they were designed to be monsters and the terror unit of the Great Crusade Marines, got bested in that job by the psychotic World Eaters and became the good guys in the face of a governing body that hates them because they break rules to protect the little guy who initially fears them because they look terrifying, decent is still better than the Smurfs in the current fiction.

Red Scorpions are what the Ultramarines could be if they became mindlessly adherent to the Codex, the Wolves are what the Ultramarines could be if they considered the Codex to be a scource of decent strategy and not much else.
The Smurfs should desire to be strictly adherent to the Codex as their Primarch's legacy to the Imperium but constantly find issue with it, that just hasn't happened lately, everything works out smoothly for them and having their Primarch back to lead them directly the morality of the Codex is irrelevant.
The Smurfs have no flavour and they're constantly rated due to being percieved as overrated poster boys.

My vote goes for the Raven Guard or Iron Hands, forget the high and low ends of the rating system, they're constantly forgotten.

To be fair, Ward kinda ruined every chapter he touched. GKs are just recovering from the embarrassment that is Draigo and the Dreadknights.

No arguments there.

I think the recent stuff with Guilliman is quite good. I haven't read Dark Imperium yet, but the part in Gathering Storms when Mr G wakes up, and the proceeding slaughter is a fine read.

The Ultramarines are fine in my book. All armies have bad fluff written by someone I would claim. Now, the Ultras might have more due to Ward, but that's not their fault.

As far as "standard" Space Marines go, I like both the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists equally.Raven Guard and Iron Hands are absolutely underrepresented in the fluff recently though.