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2017/08/15 16:37:29
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Brutallica wrote:
So Ynnari and Orks are doing great.
Close combat still sucks for most of the non horde armies.
Well... unless the definition has changed drastically, I've never known Eldar to be called a horde army lol. So as a non-horde army CC seems to work fine for them. You can also do a good CC list with the speshmareeenz, as you have enough options to do any kind of list with GW's favourite sons. That only leaves necrons and tau as standard non-horde armies who may struggle with CC. That's like half, not most. And if you want to play as a melee army, and chose Tau, then there's something amiss.
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2017/08/15 16:39:38
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Been Around the Block
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Ok, I will. the lists you posted are shooting lists. Look again at them. Just because they have something that can fight doesn't mean that's all they do. Those lists are all dominated by shooting elements. Infact, the only winner from that list is all shooting, even the mobs of boyz have guns not choppas. Furthermore, when discussing balance, "overal" results mean almost nothing once they start to include soft scores.
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2017/08/15 16:49:56
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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My take is that there are no armies that use exclusively and only cc to accomplish their goals at a top-tournament level, while there are armies that exclusively and only use shooting in a "perfect game" (i.e. they only attack in cc if they're charged and get to fight back).
At the same time, there are many armies that can't effectively use only shooting to accomplish their goals, and if they do so they will frequently get "stunlocked" into submission by decent cc units. A lot of Guard lists I've played have had this happen, as well as not entirely suit Tau, and Necrons.
In the middle ground, there are a lot of armies that use a mix of both highly effectively. Dark Eldar I've been very happy with, on the tournament stage Ynnari crank everything they've got in their playstyle up to 11, Space Marines/CSMs, and Nids all win by having a good mix of both types of damage. The strength this provides is a lack of available hard counters. Remember, even something like Robute+5 flyers in the old list configuration was really effective because when it came down to it, Robute can still fistfight a knight and come out on top easily.
In terms of "what's strongest dealing the majority of damage in melee", CSMs have some very strong buffs but remember we haven't seen everyone elses codex yet. Nids and Orks are both solid, I would give the edge to nids in an average casual "how many units are OK+" context, and Daemons seem pretty strong now that the core troops have been upgraded.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2017/08/15 16:53:33
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Niiru wrote: Brutallica wrote:
So Ynnari and Orks are doing great.
Close combat still sucks for most of the non horde armies.
Well... unless the definition has changed drastically, I've never known Eldar to be called a horde army lol. So as a non-horde army CC seems to work fine for them. You can also do a good CC list with the speshmareeenz, as you have enough options to do any kind of list with GW's favourite sons. That only leaves necrons and tau as standard non-horde armies who may struggle with CC. That's like half, not most. And if you want to play as a melee army, and chose Tau, then there's something amiss.
Well Dark eldar razor wing spam is pretty much a horde thing 
you could also horde up on kroot.
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 Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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2017/08/15 17:33:49
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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 GreaterGood? wrote:
Ok, I will. the lists you posted are shooting lists. Look again at them. Just because they have something that can fight doesn't mean that's all they do. Those lists are all dominated by shooting elements. Infact, the only winner from that list is all shooting, even the mobs of boyz have guns not choppas. Furthermore, when discussing balance, "overal" results mean almost nothing once they start to include soft scores.
There was one pure melle ork list in there but I can tell you from expieriece that the army is crap and he just got lucky draws against elite armies with no anti horde. Most of my lists would easily table that ork in 2 turns even if he got the first turn.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2017/08/16 07:44:20
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation
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World eaters wreck it...ralph-style right now.
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Blistered Be.
40k:  : 6500
 2000(GK allies -Sons of Opet)
3000 Sons of Malice( played as primaris Salamanders)
AoS:  5500 |
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2017/08/16 10:20:30
Subject: CC armies in the best place right now?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 techsoldaten wrote:Wondering if anyone else shares my take that Orks may be the best cc army right now, but they themselves are not very good against Berzerkers.
Haven't played against a Green Tide list myself but have seen a couple games where 5 man Berzerker squads were tearing up 30 man boyz squads in a single round. The double activation and saving throws is a huge advantage against hordes.
Green tide lists can handle Bezerkers in rhinos very well, but you have to learn how to kill the rhino with all hands. Bezerkers are great when they get the charge, but they are more dependent on transports than boyz, genestealers and harlequins imo.
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