Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

nekooni wrote:

That's not what I wrote. I was refering to what's happening on an actual table in an actual game.

The scenario i presented is not possible in an actual game ? I'm pretty sure i can come up with more likely scenarios.

nekooni wrote:

But outside of those contrived scenarios, it's usually not going to have any impact.

Really ? Even if its just one model more making it into CC, and that models last attack kills your landraider, or whatever large vehicle, monster you have. Why should older models have that charge advantage ? They cost the same points. Its not fair.

Seriously though guy's, it's a non issue.

Modeling for advantage is never acceptable. But if the model came with the smaller base then it's fine because that's what it came with. If GW decided tomorrow that Marines are all supposed to be on 40mm bases and only 40mm would be acceptable then they better also be willing to give out some free bases. Otherwise I am not spending my money on making the models that are modeled the way they came to make my opponent feel better about something that's silly to me. Of course if my opponent offered me some free adaptors to go up to 32mm I would not care either way because, again I think it's a non issue and if that's the compromise to make them feel better then cool.

If however you bought new models that came with the 32mm base and you decided to put them on 25mm then yes it's modeling for advantage and makes you TFG. Don't be TFG. If that's what you need to do to win I suggest you take a look at how your playing because thats just silly.

Azuza001 wrote:

If however you bought new models that came with the 32mm base and you decided to put them on 25mm then yes it's modeling for advantage and makes you TFG. Don't be TFG. If that's what you need to do to win I suggest you take a look at how your playing because thats just silly.

Though, even this isn't 100% clear cut, I don't think. In my case, I've got 20 jump pack troops on 25mms, several that I used as command squad/vanguard vets before. I just bought the official VV box, and the newest version comes with 32mm bases. It's much easier for me to stick 5 new guys on spare 25s than it is to rebase 20 old models to make uniform squad(s). Yeah, as I noted in the first post, my intent is to eventually rebase them all on 32s for appearance and figure balance, but short term, it's much easier to get a matching squad putting new figs on old sizes. I'm a very slow painter, so I'd have prob done this as a hold over and thought nothing about the CC advantage prior to this thread. If anything, I was thinking more of the 32s as better since I tend to play shootier, I want more spread coverage in fewer guys or ability to block others with fewer. Forgot about the reverse, harder for me to pack in to assault.

I could understand that. And if you showed up to a game and had done that with me I wouldn't even think about it, I still had terminators on 25mm bases until a week ago! Lol.

However you have options. You could make them vanguard vets. I just bought a box of Marines, tactical squad mk4 power armor. When I realized that they were on 32mm bases I made them into sternguard veterans instead. That way I wasn't mixing 25mm tacticals with 32mm tacticals. It's why I started looking at getting the 32mm adaptors as an easy upgrade option instead of popping bases off. I still plan on going that route myself but I think it still stands, you should use the bases that came with the models if you can, changing them only if the standard for that unit has changed or if your doing something creative. But never for game play advantages.

Azuza001 wrote:
Seriously though guy's, it's a non issue.

Modeling for advantage is never acceptable.

First its a non issue, next sentence modeling for advantage is never acceptable ?? Explain yourself please.

p5freak wrote:

nekooni wrote:

That's not what I wrote. I was refering to what's happening on an actual table in an actual game.

The scenario i presented is not possible in an actual game ? I'm pretty sure i can come up with more likely scenarios.

Again - not what I wrote. Stop creating strawmen out of my statements, thanks. I even continued on to explain exactly what I meant, but you conveniently left that out of the quoted stuff.

p5freak wrote:

nekooni wrote:

But outside of those contrived scenarios, it's usually not going to have any impact.

Really ? Even if its just one model more making it into CC, and that models last attack kills your landraider, or whatever large vehicle, monster you have. Why should older models have that charge advantage ? They cost the same points. Its not fair.

I get 1 inch for the first rank and another 1 inch from the bases of the first rank, that's most of the time enough to get my entire Terminator or Space Marine squad into combat. I don't have 20 man squads, those simply don't exist for Space Marines. I'm not even using 10 man squads.

As I've already said: Yes, there are scenarios where it has a positive impact, but there're also scenarios where it has a negative impact, and in most scenarios it simply has zero impact. That's why I'm saying "it doesn't really matter".

To get back to the actual topic of SM Character bases:
I just picked up Vulkan He'stan from my local GW (mail order arrived) - it came with a 25mm slotted base.
I'm going to put him on a 32mm Sector Imperialis base, so he fits in with all of my other regular marines - is that modelling for advantage? Or should I use 40mm bases just like the Primaris HQs? Or do I have to stick with the 25mm base it he came with?
Follow up question since I'm currently building my Primaris kits - their HQ guys (Librarian, Captain in Gravis and Chaplain) come with 40mm bases, do you want me to mount them on 32mm, too? What about regular Lieutnants, they've never been an actual kit, what kind of base are they supposed to use? What about a Captain on a Bike?

What's the actual RULE you're relying on when you're saying it's illegal to use base X or Y with a given model?

How do I find the proper base size for the following models:
Tactical Squad - 32mm or 25mm, both were sold.
Lieutnants (non-Primaris) - there's no such kit. 40, 32 or 25mm?
Captain on Bike - there's no such kit.There're 3 different bases (rectangle, oval and rounded rectangle) that I know could be used for bikes, which one is it?
Captain in Gravis - is a marine Character, but comes with a 40mm - but regular Captains came with 32mm or 25mm.
Primaris Librarian - comes with a 40mm, but "marines are 32mm, doesn't matter what they originally came with" - does it apply here, too?
Vulkan He'stan - still comes to this day with a 25mm base

p5freak wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Seriously though guy's, it's a non issue.

Modeling for advantage is never acceptable.

First its a non issue, next sentence modeling for advantage is never acceptable ?? Explain yourself please.

Maybe non issue wasn't the right words. Not arguable issue would be better.

What I mean is if they are old models they were not modeled for an advantage, that's how they came. That makes it a non-issue. If your taking new models and putting them on 25mm then the question becomes why did you do that? To get more in to close combat? That's Modeling for advantage which is an obvious deal breaker. It's all about intent.

Using me as an example, I am not doing anything with the intent of an advantage, that's how my models came. I'm getting back into the game after a 10 year hiatus. There is no malice intended.

Billy joe who just bought a new box of terms for this weekends game putting them on 25mm bases so they stick together closer and can get in closer in close combat it doing it when the intent of getting an advantage. That's wrong.

I don't understand why anyone would be upset with me. I understand perfectly why someone would be upset with Billy joe. Sense it's all based on Intent this is an obvious and therefore not arguable issue.

nekooni wrote:
I get 1 inch for the first rank and another 1 inch from the bases of the first rank, that's most of the time enough to get my entire Terminator or Space Marine squad into combat. I don't have 20 man squads, those simply don't exist for Space Marines. I'm not even using 10 man squads.

Blood angels and space wolves arent space marines ? They can have up to 15 models in a unit, getting all of those into CC with smaller bases is a big deal.

nekooni wrote:
To get back to the actual topic of SM Character bases:
I just picked up Vulkan He'stan from my local GW (mail order arrived) - it came with a 25mm slotted base.
I'm going to put him on a 32mm Sector Imperialis base, so he fits in with all of my other regular marines - is that modelling for advantage? Or should I use 40mm bases just like the Primaris HQs? Or do I have to stick with the 25mm base it he came with?

To me its modelling for advantage, but a very small one. Adding 1/4" to weapon range and aura effects of one model is negligible.

nekooni wrote:
Follow up question since I'm currently building my Primaris kits - their HQ guys (Librarian, Captain in Gravis and Chaplain) come with 40mm bases, do you want me to mount them on 32mm, too? What about regular Lieutnants, they've never been an actual kit, what kind of base are they supposed to use? What about a Captain on a Bike?

I dont care what base you use. But if i see 10+ marines with 25mm bases we will have a discussion.

nekooni wrote:
What's the actual RULE you're relying on when you're saying it's illegal to use base X or Y with a given model?

I never said its illegal. I said that its an unfair advantage. If i see 10+ marines with 25mm bases i will talk to my opponent about it.

nekooni wrote:
How do I find the proper base size for the following models:
Tactical Squad - 32mm or 25mm, both were sold.
Lieutnants (non-Primaris) - there's no such kit. 40, 32 or 25mm?
Captain on Bike - there's no such kit.There're 3 different bases (rectangle, oval and rounded rectangle) that I know could be used for bikes, which one is it?
Captain in Gravis - is a marine Character, but comes with a 40mm - but regular Captains came with 32mm or 25mm.
Primaris Librarian - comes with a 40mm, but "marines are 32mm, doesn't matter what they originally came with" - does it apply here, too?
Vulkan He'stan - still comes to this day with a 25mm base

My entire Marine force is on 25s, barring Terminators on 40s and characters that I put on 40s they didn't come with.

My Attack Bike is on a 60mm round base it didn't come with, and bikes on Bike Bases they didn't come with.

None of this was done for advantage, and is not retrospectively modelling for advantage. It's what they came with or looks cool.

That people are now applying MFA to bases I find faintly incredible. GW even try to sell you taller, wider bases for Heroes. ZOMG MFA WAAC! No, it's just pretty. Nowt worth losing sleep over.

(Edit: unless your bases are all 6" *tall* so you can fight on multiple ruin levels from the ground floor... I'd give you that as a complaint!!!)

p5freak wrote:

I dont care what base you use. But if i see 10 marines with 25mm bases we will have a discussion.

Nice. So imagine all of these models I just talked about, excluding Vulkan for obvious reason, being spammed 10 at a time. And replace Vulkan with 10 Techmarines, those also still come with 25mm bases. Now go the feth back and answer my questions.

p5freak wrote:
Please explain to me why older models with 25mm bases should have the advantage to get more models into CC. They cost the same points as newer models with 32mm bases. A 25mm base might even make the difference of making a successful charge, or not.

The basic reason is because they came with those bases. It's extra cost and effort to rebase them, and depending on how you build them and how talented you are you'll risk damaging the model itself while doing so.
Sure, it slightly changes how they behave on the battlefield, but since it has both advantages and disadvantages and the impact overall (that means: not in just a few very specific situations) isn't huge. If your base is smaller and you disembark from your transport, you'll be 7mm further away from your target unit, that might fail your charge or put the enemy outside of your weapons range, too. Marines with a smaller base have a harder time blocking your 10 man squad charging the rhino.

25mm v 32mm overall doesn't matter. that's why I consider it a non-issue.

nekooni wrote:

The basic reason is because they came with those bases. It's extra cost and effort to rebase them, and depending on how you build them and how talented you are you'll risk damaging the model itself while doing so.
Sure, it slightly changes how they behave on the battlefield, but since it has both advantages and disadvantages and the impact overall (that means: not in just a few very specific situations) isn't huge. If your base is smaller and you disembark from your transport, you'll be 7mm further away from your target unit, that might fail your charge or put the enemy outside of your weapons range, too. Marines with a smaller base have a harder time blocking your 10 man squad charging the rhino.

25mm v 32mm overall doesn't matter. that's why I consider it a non-issue.

This exactly. If you want to refuse to play me because I have older models then I probably would not have had a fun game against you anyways so we are all cool. The idea of your opponent being able to tell you how to model your units smacks of bad faith. This isn't loaded dice, or a stretched out ruler we are talking about. This is using what you bought from the company the way they intended at the time of sale. I don't understand why anyone would think that's a problem?