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 Knight wrote:

bobman wrote:
I'm starting to love Infinity for the lore. I like the aesthetic but wasnt super sold on the background. But the more I read the more I like it.

How much sci fi material have you read?

Much like a lot of wargame fluff, I wouldn't exactly sing the praises of the actual stories, but I do find the setting compelling. I'm always longing for a cyberpunk franchise to really catch on the way superheroes or Star Wars or DnD/Tolkien Fantasy has and while this isn't going to be the one that pulls it off, its a solid substitute for the time being.

Agreed. I'm a fan of the setting but it is absolutely derivative of other works, in fact I kinda like it BECAUSE it's so derivative. You can see where they've borrowed ideas and themes from history or other sci-fi stories and adjusted them into the setting. Not just Ghost in the Shell/Appleseed, but blade runner, Halo, The Culture, Hitchhiker's Guide and more. You can see bits and pieces taken from all sorts of books and movies and games and it's to be expected of somebody trying to build a universe from scratch for an RPG (Infinity started as a homebrew RPG campaign).

None of that is a bad thing if done well, so long as it's a unique spin on the standard trope and not copied verbatim.
Some of the Infinity fluff is very well done, some of it is very heavy handed, overall it makes for a good setting and I'm looking forward to the Modiphius RPG fleshing it out even more.

Thank you for the additional replies, fellas. One more question. I'm getting the Steel Phalanx box next week. Is there anything else I should get, or anything that would compliment it? I'm thinking the support pack and Achilles first, but I'd love some input.

CaptainSomas wrote:
Thank you for the additional replies, fellas. One more question. I'm getting the Steel Phalanx box next week. Is there anything else I should get, or anything that would compliment it? I'm thinking the support pack and Achilles first, but I'd love some input.

By box, do you mean the starter or the army box? If it's the starter, my friend had fun adding Myrmidons and Myrmidon Officer to it. I'd add something that can link with Thorakitai, so Nesai Alke or Hector. If it's the army box, I'd add the Steel Phalanx starter to it.

Sorry, meant the army box!

 avantgarde wrote:
Yeah but why, even walk into that kind of ARO unless you're still learning?

6 pt Warband will just run up and pop smoke on a free order, then the TR bot gets eaten or ignored.

Unless all 3 are one above the other on exact place, I can't see how one simply could not move just a bit till he sees just 1 of the models, kill him, and repeat. It's very very hard to setup this kind of ARO's where multiple guys will have them. Smart opponent will just use cover to move just enough so usually he only sees 1 model. Ofcourse, you might have TO camo which he doesn't except, so you might get additional ARO, but now we are not talking anymore about mooks, but expensive TO camo guy.

You can deal with with pie slicing by aligning your AROs vertically on multi story buildings.

Then tell your opponent your intention is to position the models in such a way that they can't slice so there's no confusion. It's trickier with a silhouette 3 and 2 but it's possible.

Also, if your opponent is pie slicing to get at cheerleaders 1 by 1, they're also wasting a lot more orders while still exposing themselves to risk.

Orders are not to be wasted.

That depends. Some armies have the orders to "waste" killing cheerleaders because they can afford the order expenditure while their opponent can't afford the loss of cheerleaders.

Especially turn 1, often my goal as Ariadna is to cut my opponent's order pool down. If I can get him down to only 6-7 orders it is well worth blowing 9-10 of my orders to do that.

Well yeah, but there was a general attitude of cheerleaders with overlapping fields of fire being useless because you can pie slice to take them one on one, and that cheerleaders should be out of sight to just provide orders.

That's not explicitly true. There's a lot of factors that can influence taking those cheerleaders on. Sometimes you need to weigh up order expenditure and the value of trying to take them out compared to actually scoring points.

There's times when you'll want to spend those orders to do it and times you won't. Just saying to keep your cheerleaders out of sight is going to potentially leave flanks open. You don't put cheerleaders on firelane duty (unless they're equipped for it, like a line infantry with a HMG in suppressive fire), but keeping them from supplying ARO pressure is a huge waste.

 -Loki- wrote:
Well yeah, but there was a general attitude of cheerleaders with overlapping fields of fire being useless because you can pie slice to take them one on one, and that cheerleaders should be out of sight to just provide orders.

That's not explicitly true. There's a lot of factors that can influence taking those cheerleaders on. Sometimes you need to weigh up order expenditure and the value of trying to take them out compared to actually scoring points.

There's times when you'll want to spend those orders to do it and times you won't. Just saying to keep your cheerleaders out of sight is going to potentially leave flanks open. You don't put cheerleaders on firelane duty (unless they're equipped for it, like a line infantry with a HMG in suppressive fire), but keeping them from supplying ARO pressure is a huge waste.

why would you give line infantry HMG and put him in SF? It's not that you have that much swc usually, and that that HMG would not be better on elite infantry. IF you are having line infantry link team, then I get it, but if you are having link team, you keep them in link, you don't break link usually.

 smurfORnot wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Well yeah, but there was a general attitude of cheerleaders with overlapping fields of fire being useless because you can pie slice to take them one on one, and that cheerleaders should be out of sight to just provide orders.

That's not explicitly true. There's a lot of factors that can influence taking those cheerleaders on. Sometimes you need to weigh up order expenditure and the value of trying to take them out compared to actually scoring points.

There's times when you'll want to spend those orders to do it and times you won't. Just saying to keep your cheerleaders out of sight is going to potentially leave flanks open. You don't put cheerleaders on firelane duty (unless they're equipped for it, like a line infantry with a HMG in suppressive fire), but keeping them from supplying ARO pressure is a huge waste.

why would you give line infantry HMG and put him in SF? It's not that you have that much swc usually, and that that HMG would not be better on elite infantry. IF you are having line infantry link team, then I get it, but if you are having link team, you keep them in link, you don't break link usually.

Sometimes you have 7 SWC and can fit it on what would be a normal rifle?

Some people just like to try different things?

Fusilier with HMG has her place. She can still be a minor threat and can punish the opposition, if left ignored. Although usually there are better profiles for just few more points such as Kamau, Bagh Mari, ODD Spitfire REM. If I've put her on SF it's usually last attempt to force the opponent to (hopefully) spend more orders on her removal than capping objectives.

She's not going to trade well against link balls and tokens, but I wouldn't say she's not worth the investment.

A single LI with an HMG isn't much to look at, but depending on the rest of your list and mission, they're VERY good in 5-man defensive links. Fusilier*** HMG, a sniper rifle/missile launcher and 3 w/ combis is only 66 points and 2.5 SWC, about what you'd pay for a high end HI. Gives you a burst 5 BS 15 in the active turn if you can get a good shot, B2 BS15 in the reactive turn with Sixth Sense lvl2 if they try to smoke you, put em in cover with some decent fire lanes and the opponent will have to be very careful about digging them out, especially if you hide the combirifles a further back and have them cover for AD or infiltrators.

That leaves you 234 points and 3.5SWC to build the rest of your army out with, and you already have 5 regular orders on the table.

*** or any other LI link for a sectorial, they're mostly all similarish points and SWC

For a HMG mount I, personally, prefer either a good BS mount with decent armour for active turn mayhem, or (rather more frequently) a good ARO piece. People tend to panic a little when they find themselves facing a Sineater with a HMG - Mimetism plus cover plus full burst ARO at damage 15 gives even TAG's a pause for thought, and if loses the firefight armour 3 + 3 for cover and religious troop really stop him from going anywhere.

Plenty of reasons to pick up the game. I'll list 5 quick points.
1. The game is very balanced. Every faction has simular capabilities and there really isn't an OP faction.
2. It's always your turn. Whether it is your active turn, or reactive turn, you and your opponent are always active.
3. The models are beautiful.
4. Terrain tables are amazing, When I hosted the NOVA open, gamers from all systems just came to see the tables.
5. Fun with friends. The community is pretty friendly and attracts all levels of gamers.

Ehhhh, I would say that most of the armies are balanced. The Human ones anyway. Combined Army Plasma/K1/Vorpal/Mono spam and Tohaa "Lols you wounded me but it only made me BETTA!" not to mention the cow dung that is the ignoring the -3 on the Paramedic roll. Neither of those two are fun to face.

I like the setting and the idea of lots of terrain. I really like the low model count and the ARO system that makes both sides play all the time. I love that almost any unit can be good in a game if you learn how to use them. I love that everything has a counter to it as well. I love the amount of options each model has in a given Order. Not just move into position and shoot something.

I don't like how completely suicidal close combat is unless your model is a cc nightmare and his opponent is a cream puff. It's very order intensive getting to the enemy for it to be such a roll of the die. Pun intended. I don't like how you only get cover if touching the terrain element. You can only see 2% of my guy but I'm a centimeter from this crate...out in the open! I'm not super happy with the silhouette system. It's really clunky trying to swap a model for their silhouette during a contentious game making situation.

Overall I love the game and have invested heavily in terrain to play it. Get a single faction and stick with it. It's easy with such a low model count game to start multiple factions. You have been warned!

Also, can we take the "Ima Betta Playa Disish whut Yado to counter dat!" Pissing contest to another thread please?

Most important with these skirmish games is to see if there are enough players in your area that stick to games. I have seen fantastic games come and go over the year. As an army is finished with 6-10 models skirmish players in my area tend to hop games every 6 months.

Infinity lasted about 6-7 months in my club. and I suppose every once in a while it will relive, but it is not like GW games that are played year on year. If you have a club in your area that is not like this, go ahead have fun, but I am weary for investing in games that might be dead in 5 months. I did that with 3 games, now I see if they actually last and are still popular after a couple of years before buying a single model.

Luckily we have had a huge upswing in people playing Infinity, either returning veterans or new players, like me. Maybe folks are winding down from the WH40k 8th hype and wanting to come back. Either way, I got people to play with, so I'm not worried about it.

And tell me about it, Dorkness. I'm already eyeing a second faction, haha. Was looking at Haqqislam, and Ariadna because of the low and mid-tech feel to them. Something opposite to the high tech look of ALEPH. (Plus the newly revealed Blackjack model for Ariadna looks awesome, and the Al Fasid and Azra'il are great looking too.)

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I don't like how completely suicidal close combat is unless your model is a cc nightmare and his opponent is a cream puff. It's very order intensive getting to the enemy for it to be such a roll of the die. Pun intended.

This is what drew myself and my friends to the game. The idea of the far future where humanity has developed much more efficient ways of fighting at long range but tactics have devolved to caveman style bumrushing with a spear is just so tiresome. When you've got a 7ft tall armoured behemoth with a gun that fires 1 calibre explosive bullets why would it make more sense to pull out your knife at run into a bunch of monsters with diamond hard, razor sharp claws whose only method of attack is said claws?

Infinity turns what was the current state of sci fi tabletop games on its head by making ranged combat supremely lethal. Close combat is there, and it's lethal since you've got someone with basically a lightsaber, but getting there is the hard part. Someone at range with a basic rifle can - and probably will - put a bullet into said close combat monster if he's moved without care. Close combat prowess on a lot of models is more of a deterrent or something to do late game when models are closer to each other and you can use cover to get there, rather than run across the street waving your sword like a madman.

However, there's absolutely models that can destroy you in close combat turn 1. Things like TO Camo Ninjas that come from nowhere to cut a heavily armoured target in half, or Impersonating Hassassins that start in your deployment zone and dare you to waste orders on them before they take out a high value target. But these are things that have skills and equipment that gets them there, and they will not likely last beyond the turn they deployed.

It's just such a nice change to play a sci fi game where I have my huge, hulking Azra'il with his ridiculous belt fed AP HMG, akin to a Terminator with an Assault Cannon, and I can stand him back in cover and just destroy anything that walks into his line of sight because, well, he has a heavy machine gun loaded with armour piercing rounds.

I like that to an extent but it's seems a swing too far the other way.

 Knight wrote:

bobman wrote:
I'm starting to love Infinity for the lore. I like the aesthetic but wasnt super sold on the background. But the more I read the more I like it.

How much sci fi material have you read?

A fair bit. Why?

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I like that to an extent but it's seems a swing too far the other way.

How far is too far?
even 100 years ago close combat was all but dead in most battles, only occurring at the very pinnacle of a push and even then a lot of it was just shooting at point blank or throwing grenades. I have to agree with Loki, CC is there but it is no where near as dominant as it is within other games (looking at you 40K) where both sides bumrush each other to try and hit the opponent with their big stick first. Hell, CC is way too easy in many of these games (40K again) and it makes no sense that your bunch of bods can rush my HMG platoon and survive to beat us to death in melee., but in 40K your Marines can charge towards my Heavy Bolters and most likely survive.
Try doing that in Infinity with you MO Knight Core Link running towards my Sineater and see how long you last. Chances are you will never make it if you just run at me.
CC can happen, and it is lethal but you have to be careful and canny, and whilst I can get my Morlock or Uberfallkommando into CC on turn 1 I will usually burn about 4-5 orders doing so, but when they get there I know they will be deadly.

TL;DR: CC feels about right in Infinity. Supremely lethal if you get there, but just Leroying up the middle is suicide, as it should be.

I had a hard time with melee in Infinity (granted, it had really no redemption when I first tried the game) but in accepting the ranged focus of Infinity I've learned why I generally favor melee in most other games. For me, miniature games are all about dynamic model movement and in most games, ranged attacks kind of make movement irrelevant and make the games rather static compared to melee engagements. Infinity is the first ranged dominate game I've played in which movement is really dynamic and interesting. Positioning is more important than a lot of melee focused games I've played and that really soothes a lot of my usual need for a balanced melee game.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I don't like how you only get cover if touching the terrain element. You can only see 2% of my guy but I'm a centimeter from this crate...out in the open!

I appreciate the cleanliness this introduces, since it forces a certain amount of intent in taking cover what minimizes arguments that generally occur in true LOS systems. It definitely has odd moments though. The centimeter away thing is actually something I've been appreciating about the system more as I've played. Not being a centimeter out itself, but one thing I find really interesting about the order system is that it gets around a lot of issues games have with dynamic terrain. In a lot of systems you move X" a turn and realistically a pretty short distance over the course of the game. When you're short on distance you're just SOL and can't go there; which creates problematic interactions with elevation and dynamic terrain in general. The ability to just spend another order and keep going is quite interesting and lets you get away with terrain that would pretty quickly break most games I've played.

Close Combat is fine in Infinity. It's relatively realistic in that it's pretty hard to get there, and there are 4 basic types of melee skill which all models fall into.

1) You have models who have no real skill in melee. Your CC is 15 or lower and at best you've probably got a knife. Melee is not really an option for you.

2) You have models which have a good CC score. Between 15 and 20. They might have a special CCW of some kind.

3) You have an excellent CC score. Above 20, as well as some level of Martial arts. Also a special CCW.

4) You have an excellent CC score, as well as Natural Born Warrior and almost certainly a special CCW.


Basically it's a hierarchy. 2s only really beat 1s when close combat is involved. 3s beat 1s and 2s. 4s are specially built to take on 3s, and are ok vs 1s. They're ironically least effective vs 2s.

Close Combat is itself just as deadly as shooting as well, for both parties potentially.

I really enjoy Infinity but game pretty infrequently: It's definitely something you want to be playing constantly because there are a LOT of rules and modifiers, and it's not something you can solve with reference sheets either.

Also Link Teams killed a decent bit of my want to play. They're not particularly cheesy or anything but I always feel like I'm at a severe disadvantage unless I take one because they do get incredibly good bonuses and, more importantly, are light on the orders to move around.

Otherwise the combat is INCREDIBLY dynamic and I think I enjoy playing Infinity more than any other miniature wargame (Besides LoTR SBG), even if it's just plain difficult to play a lot of the time (It's not the kind of wargame you start off playing, you want to be familiar with wargames in general before getting to it).

So I havent played a game yet, hoping to get some time in since Im on vacation next week, but after doing some research on rules and the different armies, I actually wound up picking Tohaa. I like their lore, and my desire to play non-humans kicked in. Google and Lonely Artichoke was a huge help in figuring out what I needed so I picked up the 300 point army box and a few other models and will be getting them painted up soon, too.

Success!!!

I wish you many fun but head scratching, rule book scouring games!

I find that the basic rules aren't hard to understand...it's the bajillion rules for weapons and interactions that seem like the head scratchers! But thank you, I do look forward to playing the game.