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He was there since the 28th.

 Sarouan wrote:
Maybe he had enough with the noise and his mind snapped with the anger. Maybe he just grabbed one of his guns and decided to shoot, since he had lots of them with him.

It doesn't have to be political. You go crazy, you have a gun, you shoot. Given the weapon he used, he really didn't need a big reason to make such a slaughter. The weapon he used is designed to kill a lot of people with decent accuracy in a short length of time, after all.

Nah, this was premeditated. He had thousands of rounds with him, all loaded in magazines. Would have been impossible to load on the spot as quickly as he was firing. He rented a room with a perfect vantage point of a well publicized event. He had been planning this for some time.

This is not a case of a dude just snapping and going on a spree. This is a case of a man who had a plan, spent time preparing for it, and coldly executed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Ten rifles in a hotel room, one of them capable of fully automatic fire (FYI we have very stringent rules about such weapons in the US) - seems pre-meditated.

I don't know if it is true or not, but I've read some folks thinking it wasn't fully automatic, but bump firing, as the rate of fire was irregular.

I thought americans like to travel with their guns, just in case. If he is a gun freak, ten may be just his number. We definitely need to know more about what truly happened. If it is for political reasons, at least that's something we can explain, even if it never excuses such a horrible act. If not...well, the human mind can be pretty gakked up.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Ten rifles in a hotel room, one of them capable of fully automatic fire (FYI we have very stringent rules about such weapons in the US) - seems pre-meditated.

I thought americans like to travel with their guns, just in case. If he is a gun freak, ten may be just his number. We definitely need to know more about what truly happened. If it is for political reasons, at least that's something we can explain, even if it never excuses such a horrible act. If not...well, the human mind can be pretty gakked up.

No... that is not what American's are like. We don't just randomly travel with freaking arsenals.

He also fraudulently used his roomate's ID to check into the room.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarouan wrote:
I thought americans like to travel with their guns, just in case.

There are legal implications to carrying firearms across state lines. There are also legal implications of carrying around firing arms, period. I'm not saying it isn't done. But at the same time, it is hardly a case of "Americans like to travel with their guns."

Sorry about that. I know your culture is widely different from mine, so I thought maybe it wasn't that "abnormal" to have that many guns with him while traveling. Thanks for the precisions.

Well, seems like more signs pointed towards premeditation. That means we can explain it, but I wonder if we will really like the answer. Doesn't look like the typical guy recruited by Isis, here...

 djones520 wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Ten rifles in a hotel room, one of them capable of fully automatic fire (FYI we have very stringent rules about such weapons in the US) - seems pre-meditated.

I thought americans like to travel with their guns, just in case. If he is a gun freak, ten may be just his number. We definitely need to know more about what truly happened. If it is for political reasons, at least that's something we can explain, even if it never excuses such a horrible act. If not...well, the human mind can be pretty gakked up.

No... that is not what American's are like. We don't just randomly travel with freaking arsenals.

I travel with an arsenal... Of coffee.

Dreadful event, sympathies to all involved.

fake/bogus news updates :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-41467035

https://twitter.com/broderick/status/914807674025512961

 Sarouan wrote:
I thought maybe it wasn't that "abnormal" to have that many guns with him while traveling.

I'm having trouble thinking of a legitimate reason why a single person would be in a hotel room with ten rifles. Best I can come up with, other than some sort of trade convention, is some kind of guided hunt vacation scenario or competitive shooting event. If there was a trade show in Las Vegas (Shot Show is no longer there IIRC) or a major competition, I would bet the news coverage would have picked up on that. Therefore, it stands to reason the guy brought 10+ rifles to that hotel room with the intent to use them in a crime.

Just FYI a single person traveling with 10+ firearms is definitely way out of the ordinary by American standards. I say that as someone who has grown up around firearms, in terms of hunting, competitive shooting, gunsmithing, collecting, and sales.

I'm betting he had an AK-47 with a 60/100 mag drum. Cheapest and easiest firearm (to illegally) acquire with a high rate of fire. 7.62 will do a lot of damage. It'll be interesting to see what prompted this. I know people are freaking out over the casualties. I've seen 50+ killed, 400+ wounded listed now.

I've been saying for years that a prepared gunman can do far more damage than anything we've seen before. Looks like it finally happened.

Carrying ten gun's? You sure would clank when you walked.

Thanks for the precisions, Manchu. Honestly, that's what I would have thought at first, but I wasn't sure if this was really out of proportions or not. I mean, here in Belgium, just having one weapon is already suspicious of wanting to commit a crime.

I read the links reds8n gave. Seems like there are a lot of "fake news" going around on this story. Really despicable to use this tragedy to mislead people...

 Frazzled wrote:
Carrying ten gun's? You sure would clank when you walked.

If he had been there for a few days before the shooting he could have brought them in in smaller, less suspicious, batches.

No problem, Sarouan. I think this kind of tragic event, and especially the inevitably editorialized news coverage, creates a warped, exploitative, and sensational view of America and Americans outside of the US. The truth is so much more mundane. Having been around firearms for my entire life, to me they are just boring objects. But I do know quite a few people even here in the US that have fetishized firearms to the point that they get nervous or anxious even being in the same room as one. It's no wonder, given an event like this - a mass murder - is the only time many, many people (including Americans) even think about firearms, outside of the realm of entertainment.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I've been saying for years that a prepared gunman can do far more damage than anything we've seen before.

A big packed crowd would make for a lot of casualties even with less firepower. It's not that long since the Orlando (was it?) night club shooting where a guy with handguns killed 49 people, after all. But he had ISIS sympathies and the club was known to have a large gay community so we can in some way understand the motives.

The mystery here is why a retired white middle class man would go on a rampage in Las Vegas? Hating country music doesn't quite cut it. Maybe he managed to gamble himself into debt and, when faced with losing his house (and guns!) to pay it off, went mad? Though in that case he'd surely attack the evil casino first...

On gun threads, after listening to the video there is some argument that he was potentially using a bumpfire of some sort.

Okay. So ISIS just claimed the attack. Says the killer converted to islam a few months ago and executed the attack on their behalf.
So it seems to have been terrorism after all.
https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Okay. So ISIS just claimed the attack. Says the killer converted to islam a few months ago and executed the attack on their behalf.
So it seems to have been terrorism after all.
https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/

Forgive me for not believing that one bit... he doesn't fit that profile and this smacks of opportunitism by ISIS.

I'll wait for what the investigator comes up with.

It's possible that someone was trying to prove the 'good guy with a gun' myth as such Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...

Just spit balling here.

 whembly wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Okay. So ISIS just claimed the attack. Says the killer converted to islam a few months ago and executed the attack on their behalf.
So it seems to have been terrorism after all.
https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/

Forgive me for not believing that one bit... he doesn't fit that profile and this smacks of opportunitism by ISIS.

I'll wait for what the investigator comes up with.

Exactly.

edited by Manchu, Rule Two

 skyth wrote:
It's possible that someone was trying to prove the 'good guy with a gun' myth as such Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...

Just spit balling here.

Good luck locating a rifleman in those lighting conditions that is hidden in a hotel room, especially if you aren't trained to pick up on a muzzle flash, and there are a thousand people screaming their heads off around you. Any premeditated attack such as this will always yield a large amount of casualties. Numerous targets, good vantage point, and relatively hidden as well.

Imagine if he had just two other people working with him (located at other buildings) to cover escape routes and pin people down. We'd see 4x the casualties, easily.

This is basically impossible to prevent short of hotels/businesses searching all luggage.

 whembly wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Okay. So ISIS just claimed the attack. Says the killer converted to islam a few months ago and executed the attack on their behalf.
So it seems to have been terrorism after all.
https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/

Forgive me for not believing that one bit... he doesn't fit that profile and this smacks of opportunitism by ISIS.

I'll wait for what the investigator comes up with.

Yeah, I find it a bit far-fetched as well, but if the guy lived relatively isolated he could have become obsessed with islam and radicalised without anyone knowing. And unlike some other groups ISIS does not really have a history of simply claiming any attack that gets made. Still, the guy does seem to be rather old for radicalisation. Usually old people are too set in their ways to make such a radical religious shift.

Smart tactic by ISIS to capitalize on the huge thirst for info about Paddock. They have no credibility to risk by lying. As/when their claim is disproven, some people will remain misinformed and others will nonetheless retain the impression that ISIS is radicalizing random white folks in America.

 trexmeyer wrote:

 skyth wrote:
It's possible that someone was trying to prove the 'good guy with a gun' myth as such Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...

Just spit balling here.

Good luck locating a rifleman in those lighting conditions that is hidden in a hotel room, especially if you aren't trained to pick up on a muzzle flash, and there are a thousand people screaming their heads off around you. Any premeditated attack such as this will always yield a large amount of casualties. Numerous targets, good vantage point, and relatively hidden as well.

Imagine if he had just two other people working with him (located at other buildings) to cover escape routes and pin people down. We'd see 4x the casualties, easily.

This is basically impossible to prevent short of hotels/businesses searching all luggage.

Yeah, if you want freedom to gather and such, that provides opportunities for people to take advantage of that. There's no good solution. Even banning guns (Which won't happen regardless) wouldn't help. Too many out there already.

It's possible the concert was just a target of opportunity for him. I was in Vegas five years ago, and I doubt the strip has changed much since then in just how packed with cars and people it can get in the evenings.

No, this looked very very planned.

 Frazzled wrote:
No, this looked very very planned.

Maybe planned that he would do it, but the actual target maybe wasn't. The planning might have amounted to that the strip is always busy with tons of people.

 skyth wrote:
Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...

Just spit balling here.

I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.

I'll believe it was ISIS after an exhaustive investigation by the authorities with his home, computer, friends and relatives is conducted and points it to being ISIS.

ISIS will claim literally anything so we can frankly ignore them as a source.