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2017/11/15 20:03:57
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Oh, very much so. Our desks had slots for inkwells they were so old, caning and school houses were a thing, we had mass twice a week, and a tuck shop to buy sweets at lunchtime. Add on weekly tests, a strong emphasis on sports, a prefect system, and biology classes where we dissected purpose-bred animals killed five minutes beforehand, and I was practically living the life of Jennings (who was strongly featured in the school library).
Then I came to a comprehensive school in Britain. You can imagine the culture shock.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/15 20:05:05
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2017/11/15 20:35:11
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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Then I came to a comprehensive school in Britain. You can imagine the culture shock.
Haha! Every time I meet someone who went to comprehensive school they make out like they were in Lord of the Flies, surely it can't be as bad as all that :-p
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2017/11/15 20:56:02
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Kroem wrote:Then I came to a comprehensive school in Britain. You can imagine the culture shock.
Haha! Every time I meet someone who went to comprehensive school they make out like they were in Lord of the Flies, surely it can't be as bad as all that :-p
Well, it was a good three years behind academically for starters. Which was good, it meant school was a doss intellectually, bad from an academic one. The flip side was that there was little class discipline in comparison, there were girls (highly distracting for someone hitting their teens), and bullying was rampant. Going from an Edwardian style single sex system where nobody swore, everything was highly regimented, and your shoes polished till they gleamed, to the British comprehensive system felt more akin to Lord of the Flies than you might believe.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/15 20:56:21
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2017/11/15 20:59:50
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Ketara wrote: Kroem wrote:Then I came to a comprehensive school in Britain. You can imagine the culture shock.
Haha! Every time I meet someone who went to comprehensive school they make out like they were in Lord of the Flies, surely it can't be as bad as all that :-p
Well, it was a good three years behind academically for starters. Which was good, it meant school was a doss intellectually, bad from an academic one. The flip side was that there was little class discipline in comparison, there were girls (highly distracting for someone hitting their teens), and bullying was rampant. Going from an Edwardian style single sex system where nobody swore, everything was highly regimented, and your shoes polished till they gleamed, to the British comprehensive system felt more akin to Lord of the Flies than you might believe.
Welcome to the Hunger games
May the odds ever be in your favour.
And yeah, well modern UK state schools can still be somewhat the brutal wastelands of Mad Max.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/15 21:03:06
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Zimbabwe went downhill dramatically after Mugabe evicted the white farmers to get rid of everything relating to colonial past. Zimbabwe's agriculture declined dramatically and so did the lives of all the people connected too it. Zimbabwe has been forever isolated under Mugabe leading to huge unemployment, eye watering hyper-inflation and corruption at the top whilst the ordinary people continued to suffer. Now in his 90s he has shown physical weakness and political weakness. I guess the army thinks the time is finally right to act. 'seeking out criminals' they say, well they have an unlimited selection available to round up. Hopefully this will be change for the better for the country, honestly if there is anyone worse than Mugabe from Zimbabwe it is his wife who potential had her eyes on his thrown after his death, once I remember reading she claimed he could still be president spiritually after death through her. B.S indeed.
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2017/11/15 21:34:34
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Sentinel1 wrote:Zimbabwe went downhill dramatically after Mugabe evicted the white farmers to get rid of everything relating to colonial past. Zimbabwe's agriculture declined dramatically and so did the lives of all the people connected too it. Zimbabwe has been forever isolated under Mugabe leading to huge unemployment, eye watering hyper-inflation and corruption at the top whilst the ordinary people continued to suffer. Now in his 90s he has shown physical weakness and political weakness. I guess the army thinks the time is finally right to act. 'seeking out criminals' they say, well they have an unlimited selection available to round up. Hopefully this will be change for the better for the country, honestly if there is anyone worse than Mugabe from Zimbabwe it is his wife who potential had her eyes on his thrown after his death, once I remember reading she claimed he could still be president spiritually after death through her. B.S indeed.
Yeah. They once where one of most prosperous nations in Africa. Massive exporter of food to various nations in region.
Now. Well they can barely supply the country at best, farms have gone back to bush,. The industrial farming skills can be rebulit but it would both need trust and those with experience working hard land to teach those skills.
It would take years to do, and serious investments but industrial farming could be returned and they could be a exporter once more.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/15 21:40:37
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Not going to happen. Bob gave the farmland as rewards to his cronies (various ZANU generals and politicians). Of course, such people don't live on the land or have any concept of how to work it. So it lies fallow and underutilised. To get some use out of it, you'd have to claw it back from the rich and powerful. Which won't happen. Meanwhile, the old owners have long since fled the country, and nobody else has the expertise. They can plant enough mealies to get a certain basic quantity of sadza, but that's about it.
This is of course, aside from the fact that the general hunger and lack of food works for ZANU PF. If you support ZANU, you get food. If you don't...I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusion. A hungry man has little thought for political revolution from those rigging the ballot box.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/15 21:42:13
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2017/11/15 22:12:21
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Ketara wrote:Not going to happen. Bob gave the farmland as rewards to his cronies (various ZANU generals and politicians). Of course, such people don't live on the land or have any concept of how to work it. So it lies fallow and underutilised. To get some use out of it, you'd have to claw it back from the rich and powerful. Which won't happen. Meanwhile, the old owners have long since fled the country, and nobody else has the expertise. They can plant enough mealies to get a certain basic quantity of sadza, but that's about it.
This is of course, aside from the fact that the general hunger and lack of food works for ZANU PF. If you support ZANU, you get food. If you don't...I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusion. A hungry man has little thought for political revolution from those rigging the ballot box.
True that sounds a effective way to manipulate. And even if not them they want to feed family etc.
If they think your the one with the food control. You have some powerful leverage.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/16 18:34:11
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Lack of food leads to political instability in many cases. See the Arab Spring for reference.
What about Zimbabwe allows it to avoid that instability? I have no idea and know almost nothing about its politics other than the basic headlines.
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Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
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2017/11/16 18:47:25
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Normally the fact that unlike the middle east, the place isn't swimming with semi-automatic guns, combined with the facts that the population aren't educated, the police are quite keen to electrocute the testicles of anyone who disagrees, and the army are well paid and kept sweet. Like most dictatorships. If the way to get enough food to live on and be left alone is to swear eternal allegiance to ol' Bob, you tug your forelock and get on with life.
It looks like Gracie didn't make enough of the right friends though. I'd be running if I were her. The Army chiefs seem to want to put the Croc in Mugabe's place and then revert to business as usual. All this talk about revolutions and democracy coming to Zim in the press is utterly laughable, and likely written by people who had to google the people involved half an hour before writing their articles. I mean Christ, half the opposition fell into bed with Zanu less than a decade ago, and sold out to get their own big cars. You could swap the entire government with the (only) opposition and nothing would change. Just a different face on the Presidential portrait.
Either the system persists(with or without Mugabe), or Gracie made enough friends and we get civil war. And given her only apparent friend right now is sodding Moyo, I'd place good money on the former.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/11/16 18:52:31
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2017/11/16 19:43:04
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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If Grace is not an idiot she will have salted away a lot of millions of dollars in the Cayman Islands or somewhere like that.
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2017/11/17 03:20:21
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Kilkrazy wrote:If Grace is not an idiot she will have salted away a lot of millions of dollars in the Cayman Islands or somewhere like that.
The Panama Papers identified a a few Mugabe allies bypassing sanctions to hide money in offshore accounts, but not Robert or Grace Mugabe. Whether that's because they were smart enough to hide it better than the others, or dumb enough that they didn't hide anything away, I'm not sure.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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2017/11/17 09:57:09
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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The Mugabes have always preferred Swiss accounts, I've heard.
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2017/11/17 14:51:51
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Well he's now been seen out and about at a university graduation so they're clearly serious about talking him into leaving
but rumour has it he's insisting he serves his full term (and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised if he insists on being on the ballot again too)
more significant is the absence of his wife and whether he's prepared to go all in to protect/support her too
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2017/11/17 20:51:15
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Okay. Spoken to a few people down the chain to try and find out what's going on (since the mainstream news is terrible when it comes to third world nations). So here's what happened (assuming what I've heard is right).
Gracie tried to poison Mnangagwa. Failed. Talked Mugabe into stripping him of the Vice-Presidency. The head of the Zimbabwean police is in Gracie's pocket, and aimed to grab Mnangagwa as a backup, so he fled. His main army ally, General Chiwenga, was in China at the time. Gracie got the head of police to set up an ambush at the airport to grab him when he got back. Chiwenga got off the plane, the police surrounded it/him and demanded he surrender himself into their custody. All according to plan.
The problem was, Chiwenga knew from military intelligence what was going on, and had had Gracie under surveillance. He knew everything her faction were planning. So a bunch of background airport workers in boiler suits suddenly turned out to be heavily armed army soldiers. Who were now doing the surrounding. They disarmed and arrested the police, and then moved on the rest of Grace's faction. One (the Finance Minister) apparently had some overzealous guards (hence the firefight). The Presidential Guard were in the Army's pocket, took orders and stepped aside. When Mugabe's head of security emerged from the Presidential Mansion, they collared him, took him off someplace to duff him up, and secured the premises.
They nabbed Gracie and Jonathan Moyo (another of her allies) at the same time. They've effectively removed the police (who were all corrupt as hell, never got paid, and scarpered the minute the army showed outside their arsenal). They're now trying to get Bob to resign and go live the life of a standard multi-millionaire ex-tyrant, and reinstate Mnangagwa as Vice President. Then they'll hold 'elections', Mnangagwa will win, and there we go. Here comes new boss, same as old boss.
They're also probably hoping that if they pretend changing the figurehead changed the establishment, they can get sanctions lifted for another decade or so, and start taking out loans from the World Bank, etc, again. So we'll likely see them putting up all of Gracies allies in kangaroo court for stealing money (which they've all been doing, of course, so not inaccurate). Use them as the fall guys to fool the west.
All very neat. So we'll likely see many wonderful articles about democracy coming to Zimbabwe, and the fall of the tyrant Mugabe, and suchlike from Western media who don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Zim and couldn't pinpoint the place on a map. When in reality, nothing has changed. Trebles all round!
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/11/17 20:57:32
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2017/11/17 21:25:23
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
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That corruption crackdown, doe.
Wasn't this the 2nd public attempt to poison Mnangagwa? The other time was something like pressurized cyanide in his office. Was this some low lying tension in the party that suddenly exploded publicly this year as Mugabe's health got worse?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/17 21:26:21
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2017/11/17 22:57:37
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Ketara wrote: Kroem wrote:Then I came to a comprehensive school in Britain. You can imagine the culture shock.
Haha! Every time I meet someone who went to comprehensive school they make out like they were in Lord of the Flies, surely it can't be as bad as all that :-p Well, it was a good three years behind academically for starters. Which was good, it meant school was a doss intellectually, bad from an academic one. The flip side was that there was little class discipline in comparison, there were girls (highly distracting for someone hitting their teens), and bullying was rampant. Going from an Edwardian style single sex system where nobody swore, everything was highly regimented, and your shoes polished till they gleamed, to the British comprehensive system felt more akin to Lord of the Flies than you might believe. In my experience at my Comprehensive school, the little fethers even bullied some of the teachers...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/17 22:57:58
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2017/11/17 23:00:19
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Ketara wrote:Okay. Spoken to a few people down the chain to try and find out what's going on (since the mainstream news is terrible when it comes to third world nations). So here's what happened (assuming what I've heard is right).
Gracie tried to poison Mnangagwa. Failed. Talked Mugabe into stripping him of the Vice-Presidency. The head of the Zimbabwean police is in Gracie's pocket, and aimed to grab Mnangagwa as a backup, so he fled. His main army ally, General Chiwenga, was in China at the time. Gracie got the head of police to set up an ambush at the airport to grab him when he got back. Chiwenga got off the plane, the police surrounded it/him and demanded he surrender himself into their custody. All according to plan.
The problem was, Chiwenga knew from military intelligence what was going on, and had had Gracie under surveillance. He knew everything her faction were planning. So a bunch of background airport workers in boiler suits suddenly turned out to be heavily armed army soldiers. Who were now doing the surrounding. They disarmed and arrested the police, and then moved on the rest of Grace's faction. One (the Finance Minister) apparently had some overzealous guards (hence the firefight). The Presidential Guard were in the Army's pocket, took orders and stepped aside. When Mugabe's head of security emerged from the Presidential Mansion, they collared him, took him off someplace to duff him up, and secured the premises.
They nabbed Gracie and Jonathan Moyo (another of her allies) at the same time. They've effectively removed the police (who were all corrupt as hell, never got paid, and scarpered the minute the army showed outside their arsenal). They're now trying to get Bob to resign and go live the life of a standard multi-millionaire ex-tyrant, and reinstate Mnangagwa as Vice President. Then they'll hold 'elections', Mnangagwa will win, and there we go. Here comes new boss, same as old boss.
They're also probably hoping that if they pretend changing the figurehead changed the establishment, they can get sanctions lifted for another decade or so, and start taking out loans from the World Bank, etc, again. So we'll likely see them putting up all of Gracies allies in kangaroo court for stealing money (which they've all been doing, of course, so not inaccurate). Use them as the fall guys to fool the west.
All very neat. So we'll likely see many wonderful articles about democracy coming to Zimbabwe, and the fall of the tyrant Mugabe, and suchlike from Western media who don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Zim and couldn't pinpoint the place on a map. When in reality, nothing has changed. Trebles all round!
That sounds more plausible than western media.
And yes. Same old same old. If your the one who controls the courts it's hard to get done for corruption
Yeah. Cleaning house on there enemies would discredit there faction and is a handy "we changed storey"
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/18 00:58:17
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Zealous Shaolin
England
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From the Rochdale Herald...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/18 14:13:31
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2017/11/18 15:57:54
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/18 16:38:56
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Of course they have. He's Zezuru Shona, the rest of the Karanga have never been fond of him and the way he favoured them. And in that second report, hah!
a military spokesman announced on state television that the army had launched an operation to target "criminals" close to the President who were causing "social and economic suffering."
What did I say? The Western reporting is almost hilarious in its naivety. It's like the 'Arab Spring' all over again.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/18 16:39:17
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2017/11/18 17:19:27
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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I for one am happy that he’s not going to get to die peacefully in bed. It’s the least that can happen to him after all the gak he’s inflicted.
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2017/11/18 19:41:09
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Future War Cultist wrote:I for one am happy that he’s not going to get to die peacefully in bed. It’s the least that can happen to him after all the gak he’s inflicted.
Instead he'll die a multi-millionaire in exceptionally comfortable circumstances surrounded by loving family. Let it to be a warning to all would-be tyrants.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/18 19:41:15
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2017/11/18 21:09:57
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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Unless the army hands him over to the mobs.
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2017/11/18 21:27:04
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[DCM]
Secret Squirrel
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There will be a change in leader, but not in leadership style. This is less about reform, and more about succession.
The new leader will be cut from the same cloth, so I doubt the military will set a normal of handing over old tyrants to the mob. This is not the coming of free democracy to this country.
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2017/11/18 22:25:17
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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d-usa wrote:There will be a change in leader, but not in leadership style. This is less about reform, and more about succession.
The new leader will be cut from the same cloth, so I doubt the military will set a normal of handing over old tyrants to the mob. This is not the coming of free democracy to this country.
New? Will be? It IS the same leader. Who do you think has been running the country? Bob's a 93 year old geriatric who falls asleep whilst giving speeches. The Croc personally supervised throwing thousands of his countrymen down well and rocks in after them, and then the booting out of the white farmers. He ran the secret police for a period. He's old guard, he's been there since the start. Grace is a newcomer, she isn't even Mugabe's first wife.
Future War Cultist wrote:
Unless the army hands him over to the mobs.
Won't happen. They've spent years deifying him as the founder of Zimbabwe. Worst case scenario, they say he resigned and put him on an estate somewhere where he can't contradict them. He'll snooze for a few years and then cork it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/18 22:25:50
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2017/11/18 22:46:20
Subject: Re:Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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Bummer.
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2017/11/18 23:00:10
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Probbly for the best.
Alive and in retirement he is not a maryter.
Thetes no real rally point.
Grace minus his influence and her freinds out of office.
For a smooth power hand over you could tolerate things being imperfect.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/11/19 17:56:42
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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There's indeed a Coup d'Etat in Zimbabwe. It is indeed a Coup, but the perpetators don't admit that they did the Coup d'Etat (It is a blatant serious crime--High Treason-- to be honest, sayin' that they do and things will go awry). they simply said 'It's a revolution' (and there are indeed Law Schools considered Coup d'Etat is, and with no nonsense reasons...but you must understand siences of Law first.) and then follows with a variety of reasons/excuses (How bad previous government is, and then claimes that the other possible and less violent solutions were all to no avail.. this leads to the reasons why the perpetators must earn its own amnesty to a very High Crimes they just committed, and later seekin' public support)
How did Abbe Sieyes calls 18th Brumaire VIII Coup d'Etat? (which Sieyes himself engineered, while Napoleon Bonaparte finalized the Coup)
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408342.page |
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2017/11/19 18:26:13
Subject: Possible coup in Zimbabwe
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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jhe90 wrote:Probbly for the best.
Alive and in retirement he is not a maryter.
Thetes no real rally point.
Grace minus his influence and her freinds out of office.
For a smooth power hand over you could tolerate things being imperfect.
I’m sure he’ll go into exile abroad and enjoy the vast wealth he has pocketed away over the years just like Idi Amin or King Farouk or Ferdinand Marcos and his wife who continues to live like a queen on their plunder.
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