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Well it's happening on every codex release so far.

And hey on the flip side there's the index you can use. Albeit that means having to lug around 2 books and no point cost updates to be expected.

Of course it's possible ork DO get new model releases. New model release shortage has to end sooner or later. Models sell vast majority of their sales in first few months so not having new releases is not good financially so unlikely they would have planned that long period without much releases so maybe orks are lucky ones and are among codexes with new models releases! (so far just primaris marines and death guard both being new factions)

I’m not convinced the reduction in options will be as extreme as some people here are predicting – for example, Tactical Marines didn’t suddenly start only being allowed to take missile launchers as their heavy weapons. I think it’s fairly safe to assume that if there’s a compatible bit for an option, even if it’s in another kit, that option’s not going to disappear.

Well keep putting head into sand and ignoring all the codex option removals recent codexes have shown. Any REASON to actually think GW flips over and reverses the trend for orks?

Just learn to pack 3 books(codex, index, chapter approved) into your gaming pack. You need that skill.

tneva82 wrote:
Well it's happening on every codex release so far.

And hey on the flip side there's the index you can use. Albeit that means having to lug around 2 books and no point cost updates to be expected.

Of course it's possible ork DO get new model releases. New model release shortage has to end sooner or later. Models sell vast majority of their sales in first few months so not having new releases is not good financially so unlikely they would have planned that long period without much releases so maybe orks are lucky ones and are among codexes with new models releases! (so far just primaris marines and death guard both being new factions)

Well the KFF big mek is OOP since years and yet it's present in the 7th edition codex and the 8th index. GW never released a painboy or big mek on bike and yet they've been in the codex even in previous editions, in fact the only offical biker character ever released is the FW warboss. Buggies can be equipped with rokkits since 3rd edition, and yet the model is OOP since that period. There are countless units/options that become OOP or even never released but still have always had rules since several editions. That's why I couldn't understand deleting lots of stuff just because the GW doesn't have offical models that represent those options.

Ok, have fun hysterically envisaging worst-case scenarios. I’ll be elsewhere actually playing a game for fun.

So with almost 3 times as many votes as anything else the consensus is 7pts for the weapon. This would make TankBustas12ppm which would be worth fielding in numbers again and even more importantly would make units like Killakanz and Deffkoptas usable in friendly/competitive games.

Of note, the next two highest votes have the cost at 5pts and 9pts.

I highly doubt that a 5-10 point drop would have an impact of note on kanz or koptaz. It would push buggies towards competitive though.

True, but it would at least start the process of dropping costs. I think Kanz are about 35% over priced before you even add weapons. And the koptas are a joke at that price.

12pts for a Tankbustas would be pretty crazily cheap, I reckon. Personally, I’d say there’s an argument to make rokkits much cheaper (like 4-5pts), but maybe bump the TB cost up to account for the fact they make them nearly twice as effective against their ideal target. And kanz, koptas and other potential rokkit platforms a bit cheaper to begin with anyway.

 Nazrak wrote:
12pts for a Tankbustas would be pretty crazily cheap, I reckon. Personally, I’d say there’s an argument to make rokkits much cheaper (like 4-5pts), but maybe bump the TB cost up to account for the fact they make them nearly twice as effective against their ideal target. And kanz, koptas and other potential rokkit platforms a bit cheaper to begin with anyway.

I agree with this. However, I really think the durability of TBs needs to be taken into account. At 12pts they would be cheap but to even get them into range you will need at least a trukk which bumps their cost up by 8pts a model (if you take 10). And that extra durability is questionable because trukkz tend to explode rather quickly.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well it's happening on every codex release so far.

And hey on the flip side there's the index you can use. Albeit that means having to lug around 2 books and no point cost updates to be expected.

Of course it's possible ork DO get new model releases. New model release shortage has to end sooner or later. Models sell vast majority of their sales in first few months so not having new releases is not good financially so unlikely they would have planned that long period without much releases so maybe orks are lucky ones and are among codexes with new models releases! (so far just primaris marines and death guard both being new factions)

Well the KFF big mek is OOP since years and yet it's present in the 7th edition codex and the 8th index. GW never released a painboy or big mek on bike and yet they've been in the codex even in previous editions, in fact the only offical biker character ever released is the FW warboss. Buggies can be equipped with rokkits since 3rd edition, and yet the model is OOP since that period. There are countless units/options that become OOP or even never released but still have always had rules since several editions. That's why I couldn't understand deleting lots of stuff just because the GW doesn't have offical models that represent those options.

YEs but this whole no model, no entry in codex started with 8th ed so gee 7th ed codex is HARDLY much of an evidence. That's the new policy in 8th ed. It doesn't make sense and sucks but it is what it is. Now albeit there IS chance ork codex is released when GW changes codex style again(has happened before. 7th ed codexes were at start low key but then came necrons introducing the super detachment of detachments which marked yet another change of style) but I wouldn't be hoping too much that. Unlike then now codexes are being released lot more faster leaving less room for GW internally to decide to change core tenents of codex.

Would love to GW change in style but better to prepare against the 99% likely scenario by learning to carry 2 books with me to the game(codex and index) rather than assume I can get by with just by one book.

The bigger issue with removing OOP models is that the codex won't update their costs anymore. If kopta rokkits are not in the codex, they will stay ridiculously overprice forever - same for rokkit racks, MA warboss, nob bikers and other models.

 Jidmah wrote:
The bigger issue with removing OOP models is that the codex won't update their costs anymore. If kopta rokkits are not in the codex, they will stay ridiculously overprice forever - same for rokkit racks, MA warboss, nob bikers and other models.

Yes not only OOP models, but also those ones that can be fielded only by conversions, like biker characters. But the concept that units should only play with what's in their box is extremely silly. Think about stormboyz, in their kit there's the body or a nob but no big choppas or p.klaws. Without kitbashing the stormboyz nob can only have slugga & choppa and no one wouls run those nobz stock. That's another box that GW wouldn't sell. Conversions and kitbashing help GW selling more boxes, not the opposite.

That new trend would kill 40k IMHO. Not only orks, SW for example have just a couple of non named models representing all their 20+ HQs (considering all the possible loadouts), a wolf lord with axe and shield on thunderwolf, a footslogging iron priest and a footslogging rune priest. Wow, army killed.

 Blackie wrote:
Yes not only OOP models, but also those ones that can be fielded only by conversions, like biker characters. But the concept that units should only play with what's in their box is extremely silly. Think about stormboyz, in their kit there's the body or a nob but no big choppas or p.klaws. Without kitbashing the stormboyz nob can only have slugga & choppa and no one wouls run those nobz stock. That's another box that GW wouldn't sell. Conversions and kitbashing help GW selling more boxes, not the opposite.

Blood angel sergeants say "hey where's our power swords"...

btw regarding points remember that you just pick options from index. Point cost, rules of weapons etc are from codex. So point costs don't get updated if:

a) whole datasheet dissapears.
b) weapon dissapears from all units.

So dethkopta with rokkit: If deth kopta is still in codex with big shoota platform price is updated deth kopta price. If rokkit gets discount and appears elsewhere in codex(say on buggies) rokkit uses that. If rokkit gains new rules it uses that.

Big danger for not updating therefore would be stuff like warboss on mega armour as that's not upgrade but full entry. Then question is how overpriced that is barring wargear(power klaw for example likely gets point drop)

edit: Also obviously GW will be releasing new models so some options lost are pretty sure to come back one day with brand new model but of course which codexes get how much of those is another question. Orks could be in for a while.

If they removed the bigmek with KFF they would cripple the army... We all know that in a few editions people won't even touch the index.... I heard in an interview that GW rule writers read all thr forums all the time so let's hope they're listing here.

We were lucky to get the indexes at all. 9th edition will remove the ability to use Index models all together.

tneva82 wrote:

edit: Also obviously GW will be releasing new models so some options lost are pretty sure to come back one day with brand new model but of course which codexes get how much of those is another question. Orks could be in for a while.

I wouldn't expect many new models. Tyranids and eldar codexes are now out but what did they received? Grey knights? AM? Ad mech? Orks just got a set of sprue that was added to an already existing box (the flyer) as the only new release they got since 2014. I don't really think they could receive more than 2-3 new releases before 9th edition, which should be a new buggy and 1-2 characters, probably named monopose ones like a new ghaz, nothing more.

tneva82 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yes not only OOP models, but also those ones that can be fielded only by conversions, like biker characters. But the concept that units should only play with what's in their box is extremely silly. Think about stormboyz, in their kit there's the body or a nob but no big choppas or p.klaws. Without kitbashing the stormboyz nob can only have slugga & choppa and no one wouls run those nobz stock. That's another box that GW wouldn't sell. Conversions and kitbashing help GW selling more boxes, not the opposite.

Blood angel sergeants say "hey where's our power swords"...

btw regarding points remember that you just pick options from index. Point cost, rules of weapons etc are from codex. So point costs don't get updated if:

a) whole datasheet dissapears.
b) weapon dissapears from all units.

So dethkopta with rokkit: If deth kopta is still in codex with big shoota platform price is updated deth kopta price. If rokkit gets discount and appears elsewhere in codex(say on buggies) rokkit uses that. If rokkit gains new rules it uses that.

Big danger for not updating therefore would be stuff like warboss on mega armour as that's not upgrade but full entry. Then question is how overpriced that is barring wargear(power klaw for example likely gets point drop)

edit: Also obviously GW will be releasing new models so some options lost are pretty sure to come back one day with brand new model but of course which codexes get how much of those is another question. Orks could be in for a while.

Kopta rokkits and rokkit racks are each unique to koptas and buggies. No other model uses them.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

edit: Also obviously GW will be releasing new models so some options lost are pretty sure to come back one day with brand new model but of course which codexes get how much of those is another question. Orks could be in for a while.

I wouldn't expect many new models. Tyranids and eldar codexes are now out but what did they received? Grey knights? AM? Ad mech? Orks just got a set of sprue that was added to an already existing box (the flyer) as the only new release they got since 2014. I don't really think they could receive more than 2-3 new releases before 9th edition, which should be a new buggy and 1-2 characters, probably named monopose ones like a new ghaz, nothing more.

Wasn't talking about codex release but long term. Or do you think next 5 years are going to be model drought? Keep in mind model sells most of it's all lifespan sales within first few months so not having new releases puts gimp on their sales.

Once codexes are out you can bet whatever you wish GW starts putting out new models on sale again. Of course orks are unlikely to be on top of the priority list but this was more of generic point regarding all the index options that have been lost(like blood angel power sword thing).

 lolman1c wrote:
If they removed the bigmek with KFF they would cripple the army... We all know that in a few editions people won't even touch the index.... I heard in an interview that GW rule writers read all thr forums all the time so let's hope they're listing here.

If this is true I hope to god they start listening and stop listening to the 1-2 who believe everything is good to go.

What's weird to me is that we know they have the sprues for the AOBR stuff and EZbuild is now a thing they are doing. Why not release the deffcoptas, warboss, nobz and boyz under the new "Ezbuild" banner to go along with the DG and Primaris stuff they just did?

That would be a great way to keep vital stuff from disappearing from the codex (warboss with actual weapon, deffcopta) and give them a line that would probably be relatively popular with the kids theyre primarily targeting with the ezbuild kits. Orks are fun looking.

I'd call that my "dream situation" for an ork codex "model release." My more likely situation would be mirroring Eldar, just getting Grukk released as a clampack as a warboss with power klaw and attack squig.

the_scotsman wrote:
What's weird to me is that we know they have the sprues for the AOBR stuff and EZbuild is now a thing they are doing. Why not release the deffcoptas, warboss, nobz and boyz under the new "Ezbuild" banner to go along with the DG and Primaris stuff they just did?

That would be a great way to keep vital stuff from disappearing from the codex (warboss with actual weapon, deffcopta) and give them a line that would probably be relatively popular with the kids theyre primarily targeting with the ezbuild kits. Orks are fun looking.

I'd call that my "dream situation" for an ork codex "model release." My more likely situation would be mirroring Eldar, just getting Grukk released as a clampack as a warboss with power klaw and attack squig.

The AOBR moulds could well be worn out, or they may be multi-cavity moulds that would monopolize their biggest presses. There could be a multitude of reasons that the old sprues cannot be reproduced. Injection moulding has many quirks that are totally absent in the old pewter spin casting process, and it is my impression that GWs transition to injection moulded polystyrene has been quite painful, as witnessed by their failed experiment with rubber moulded resin.

The next time you hold a Lego brick you should try and find the gate marks, flash and witness lines. It is not easy, which is a testament to the 50+ years of experience that GW is just starting to accumulate. Regards

A rokkit boy costs 18 pts and inflicts 0,44 wounds to a rhino without to hit modifiers. 3 shootaboyz cost the same and inflict 0,22 wounds to a rhino without to hit modifiers. Currently ork boyz can only buff shooting with a 1 cp strategem that adds 16% hits if there are no to hit modifiers.
All in all, more bodies are universally more preferable and the only reason to take those rokkits is if you allready have full squads and you oddly feel that extra non-full squads are not gona do you any good.
Currently the rokkit should cost 7-8 and the big shoota should cost 3.

Another thing is that i'd gladly pay 12 for a rokkit if we had access to any meaningfull dakka buffs that we could build a list around. Like +1 to hit as an aura buff, gear or an army trait. This would make expensive shooty units preferable to simply more bodies.

So, i vote for "keep it expensive but buff it" once again. Though, i'd like to point out that the weapon's stats shouldn't change. Just give those orks gitfindas or something.