Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is why I went to skirmish games. A 'playable, painted army' is at most 10 models. Once that 10 is done, a 'project' is whatever tiny handful of models I grab to paint next. I still have a huge backlog, but fielding a painted 'army' is easy.

If I feel like grabbing a different army? It's only another 10 models or so to paint.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Davor wrote:
Some great ideas there. Thank you everyone for your help. Sadly I have no discipline. I know that is a big part. I am trying something new that I was told not to do, but after reading some posts here, it seems to be working and I am finally on the right track now.

Screw discipline, and a lot of the ideas in here are awful. Unless your one and only goal is to have a finished army at a given points value to play games with and the only way you'll get any joy out of the hobby is to achieve that goal, plenty of the stuff people are spouting in here is nonsense, utter and complete nonsense.

Well, he asked how to avoid wondering project syndrome. The only way to do it is WITH discipline. Most of the suggestions listed are designed to make a chore fun (or less painful) by making it easier, quicker, more social, or keeping the end in mind.

Now, if he asked how does he maximize "fun" in the Hobby, that is a different question now isn't it? That would give you different answers.

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Davor wrote:
Some great ideas there. Thank you everyone for your help. Sadly I have no discipline. I know that is a big part. I am trying something new that I was told not to do, but after reading some posts here, it seems to be working and I am finally on the right track now.

Screw discipline, and a lot of the ideas in here are awful. Unless your one and only goal is to have a finished army at a given points value to play games with and the only way you'll get any joy out of the hobby is to achieve that goal, plenty of the stuff people are spouting in here is nonsense, utter and complete nonsense.

Well, he asked how to avoid wondering project syndrome. The only way to do it is WITH discipline. Most of the suggestions listed are designed to make a chore fun (or less painful) by making it easier, quicker, more social, or keeping the end in mind.

Now, if he asked how does he maximize "fun" in the Hobby, that is a different question now isn't it? That would give you different answers.

Or, people could read the OP and actually think for a moment before responding. I've seen plenty of folk quit because they feel like they're under some obligation to do things "properly", to build the HUEG armies they see in White Dwarf, to sit down and slog through painting hordes of models, and that if they don't they're just not "committed" enough, not "disciplined" enough, because they don't have the "time, patience, skill, or industry" to be a wargamer, and they don't come to that belief in the form of a heaven-sent revelation delivered by singing cherubs, they get it from GW's marketing and judgemental fellow wargamers who can't conceive how anyone can get enjoyment from the hobby in a different way than they can.

The OP doesn't actually have a problem unless they're not enjoying themselves, but a lot of folk in the thread's first instinct is to ignore that and jump right to insisting they do have a problem and tell them they need to fix themselves. Hell one poster actually did read the OP and consider that, and goes so far as to say the idea that if you're enjoying yourself there's no issue is wrong and if you're not assembly-line painting armies at a time you're not cut out to be a wargamer.

Yeah, small units that you can do quickly is key. If you're having to paint something for months you picked too big of a project or you're going too high on the complexity. Running out of steam is almost inevitable at that point.

I don't think forcing yourself to do something is a viable long-term strategy. It can certainly work for a unit or two, and every once in a while yes, you just need to get over a hump through straight willpower. Other than that though, you're telling yourself something if you're bogging down that badly; see if there's adjustments to make rather than bulling ahead. Some suggestions that I've had better luck with than the "just make yourself do it approach":

-Share work in progress with someone outside of your house. Blogs are okay-ish, but if you're easily discouraged I would solicit a friend for this. The Internet has no way of determining what's being posted more for motivation and what's asking for critical feedback. Sometimes you want the latter, but I'm guessing if motivation has been a problem in the past someone you know will be better. I find it insanely useful to share via email/messaging rather than in-person, because you handily create a record of progress for the time where you feel like you'll never see the peak of the grey mountain; it's a good reminder that just because you're not at the top doesn't mean you're anywhere near where you started. Also make it a regular interval rather than ad hoc and make it a goal to have progress to show them; even though the other person doesn't really "care" (it's not like their mortgage payment is riding on getting your WIP message) having that tiny bit of personal accountability helps.

-Write down your painting steps. Hobby ADD will strike; this is inevitable. Sometimes it will be a fleeting "I just want to build something today" and other times it will be measured in years. I've found nothing as demotivating as finally sitting down to continue a project and then not remembering how you painted the other models or finding out you forgot about a color you don't have handy now (or indeed, isn't made anymore). Google Docs/Office 365/iWork are all very handy for this since you don't have to keep track of paper/worry about your machine dying.

-Have two different "scale" projects as was mentioned. Work on a character at the same time as a squad. Or take scale literally and have a different system you swap over to for a quick second. Burn-out is a thing, and swapping focus is a not bad so long as progress is still being made overall. Just be cautious about shelving projects entirely; that's really easy to do when you start putting more and more projects on/around the table.

-Limit purchases, but don't view them as forbidden. Adding more and more stuff is far too easy as my collection attests. Try to only add when it makes a useful addition. "I'll buy X after I finish Y" can be a tactic to try, but in my experience that can be burdensome and again converts the hobby into a chore. Only buying things on sale is also a decent-enough approach especially if the price is better than you'll otherwise get; such sales are typically infrequent enough that they won't add too much.

-Compromise is key. We all want Golden Demon-level armies on our tables, but there's a reason that level is lauded; it's insanely time-consuming. As someone already mentioned, the Arm's Length standard is probably the one to go for. I do want to improve and incorporate new techniques of course, but understanding that's a gradual process of continual improvement rather than trying to make leaps and bounds in the scope of a project made things move faster, which in turn helps get things done.

Obviously anyone's mileage may vary with those, but tossing it out for the discussion.

I'm terrible at sitting and finishing a single painting project. If I had to do that I'd still be sat with an almost finished Iron Strider in front of me I started months ago.

Since I started that model I've painted dozens of infantry, 5 walkers (2 Penitent Engines and 3 Sentinels) and about 6 other vehicles as well as characters and other non-standard foot sloggers.

I find it best to have up to a dozen small projects on the go at once. As it stands I've got said Ironstider, a couple of Death Cult Assassins, 2 Geminae Superior, a Commisar, a Data Smith, an SoB Exorcist, an Onager Dunecrawler, 3 Kataphron servitors and 2 Tech Priest Dominus' on the go, I also finished 6 Cadian Infantry as well today. When I feel like painting I get myself set up, then go to my shelf and pick up a few models I feel like adding a little paint to. Sometimes a model will come out and just get a couple of little details added (l'm looking at you Exorcist), but then I'll add considerably more to other models.

It's definitely not an optimal way to paint, but it's the way I enjoy doing it. I tend to get a big model to near completion over dozens of sittings before actually focusing on what needs doing on it. When the end is in sight for a model I usually feel determined to finish it and add it to the completed shelf so may focus exclusively on that model for a sitting.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't feel bad about having a whole stack of models on the go at once, just pick up and make a start on whatever you feel like doing that day.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Davor wrote:
Some great ideas there. Thank you everyone for your help. Sadly I have no discipline. I know that is a big part. I am trying something new that I was told not to do, but after reading some posts here, it seems to be working and I am finally on the right track now.

Screw discipline, and a lot of the ideas in here are awful. Unless your one and only goal is to have a finished army at a given points value to play games with and the only way you'll get any joy out of the hobby is to achieve that goal, plenty of the stuff people are spouting in here is nonsense, utter and complete nonsense.

Well, he asked how to avoid wondering project syndrome. The only way to do it is WITH discipline. Most of the suggestions listed are designed to make a chore fun (or less painful) by making it easier, quicker, more social, or keeping the end in mind.

Now, if he asked how does he maximize "fun" in the Hobby, that is a different question now isn't it? That would give you different answers.

Or, people could read the OP and actually think for a moment before responding. I've seen plenty of folk quit because they feel like they're under some obligation to do things "properly", to build the HUEG armies they see in White Dwarf, to sit down and slog through painting hordes of models, and that if they don't they're just not "committed" enough, not "disciplined" enough, because they don't have the "time, patience, skill, or industry" to be a wargamer, and they don't come to that belief in the form of a heaven-sent revelation delivered by singing cherubs, they get it from GW's marketing and judgemental fellow wargamers who can't conceive how anyone can get enjoyment from the hobby in a different way than they can.

The OP doesn't actually have a problem unless they're not enjoying themselves, but a lot of folk in the thread's first instinct is to ignore that and jump right to insisting they do have a problem and tell them they need to fix themselves. Hell one poster actually did read the OP and consider that, and goes so far as to say the idea that if you're enjoying yourself there's no issue is wrong and if you're not assembly-line painting armies at a time you're not cut out to be a wargamer.

Here is what the OP asked:

So how can I try and make a playable painted army without restarting all the time.

No one is telling anyone they have a problem. The OP is asking for help. So your stance boils down to, if someone asks for advice on a specific topic you should not give them any. Okay then. Thanks.... I guess.

You will notice, most of the suggestions were how to scale back expectations and still make progress and avoid wondering around. That is what the OP was asking for.

By your standard, we should just say, "Oh, you want to get something done? I know what has worked for many people. I guess you will have to figure it out on your own, but make sure you are having fun doing it! Peace out."

 Easy E wrote:
I do a couple of steps:

1. I lower my standards to Arm's Length quality. If it looks good enough for arm's length it is good enough.

2. Keep three projects on the go at once, and rotate through them as the other two dry/set. That way, when I paint I am always painting. When I build I am always building.

3. Make painting and modelling a social activity with your group. Have a painting night instead of playing. Social pantintg is fun and you cna learn a lot too.

4. What is the best way to beat writer's block? Write anyway. Same with projects. Don't feel like painting it? Too bad. Paint it anyway and see rule #1.

5. Realize that everything is more fun with painted models.

I like Easy E's take, and it is close to what I have been attempting on my own ADD-style of collecting, starting and abandoning projects.

Point #4 is really important. Get some paint on your models. Even if it is simply base coats, or spending an evening painting all of the pouches on a squad of figures, get something done. It really helps build momentum and is a psychological trick to keep yourself invested by witnessing steady progress. For example, if you start with a primed squad on Monday, and each day of the week spend 30-60 minutes painting one element of the squad (pants, armor plates, pouches, skin tones, etc.) by the end of the week you should have a complete or nearly complete squad. Keep it up and you'll get faster, and the models will seem to paint themselves.


Also pet peeve here, but is it "wondering" projects or wandering projects? That has been bothering me since page 1.

LOL,

I kept typing "Wondering" assuming it was a local idiom from his region of the world.

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Davor wrote:
Some great ideas there. Thank you everyone for your help. Sadly I have no discipline. I know that is a big part. I am trying something new that I was told not to do, but after reading some posts here, it seems to be working and I am finally on the right track now.

Screw discipline, and a lot of the ideas in here are awful. Unless your one and only goal is to have a finished army at a given points value to play games with and the only way you'll get any joy out of the hobby is to achieve that goal, plenty of the stuff people are spouting in here is nonsense, utter and complete nonsense.

Well, he asked how to avoid wondering project syndrome. The only way to do it is WITH discipline. Most of the suggestions listed are designed to make a chore fun (or less painful) by making it easier, quicker, more social, or keeping the end in mind.

Now, if he asked how does he maximize "fun" in the Hobby, that is a different question now isn't it? That would give you different answers.

Or, people could read the OP and actually think for a moment before responding. I've seen plenty of folk quit because they feel like they're under some obligation to do things "properly", to build the HUEG armies they see in White Dwarf, to sit down and slog through painting hordes of models, and that if they don't they're just not "committed" enough, not "disciplined" enough, because they don't have the "time, patience, skill, or industry" to be a wargamer, and they don't come to that belief in the form of a heaven-sent revelation delivered by singing cherubs, they get it from GW's marketing and judgemental fellow wargamers who can't conceive how anyone can get enjoyment from the hobby in a different way than they can.

The OP doesn't actually have a problem unless they're not enjoying themselves, but a lot of folk in the thread's first instinct is to ignore that and jump right to insisting they do have a problem and tell them they need to fix themselves. Hell one poster actually did read the OP and consider that, and goes so far as to say the idea that if you're enjoying yourself there's no issue is wrong and if you're not assembly-line painting armies at a time you're not cut out to be a wargamer.

Here is what the OP asked:

So how can I try and make a playable painted army without restarting all the time.

No one is telling anyone they have a problem. The OP is asking for help. So your stance boils down to, if someone asks for advice on a specific topic you should not give them any. Okay then. Thanks.... I guess.

You will notice, most of the suggestions were how to scale back expectations and still make progress and avoid wondering around. That is what the OP was asking for.

By your standard, we should just say, "Oh, you want to get something done? I know what has worked for many people. I guess you will have to figure it out on your own, but make sure you are having fun doing it! Peace out."

You're not getting it. The OP is asking for help because the same prevailing culture that's behind most of the "knuckle down and power through" advice given in response has made them feel like there's something wrong with them if they can't sit down and make one, single, game-playable army without being "distracted", and my argument is there's nothing wrong with them in the first place & the prevailing attitude is nonsense, and maybe if folk actually thought about the context and subtext of the problem before replying they'd have thought to mention "hey, maybe you just like doing loads of different projects, don't feel like you *must* do whole armies in one go" before jumping straight to how they should "fix" themselves.

When people are telling someone "hey, maybe you're just not dedicated and super-serial enough to be a wargamer" I'm comfortable saying the problem is more with that side of the issue than mine.

I have 0 discipline. I always have like 3-4 projects active at the same time. I try to force myself to jump between projects that I have allready active, but if I just want to start a new one thats fine.
Maybe I take 10 more times than a focused guy to finish a project, but as Im having fun meanwhile, it doesnt matter.

Same here... I'm rather new to the hobby (seriously started march last year) playing Space Wolves and Death Guard but especially since 8th landed and there've been a flood of Nurgle and Primaris Marine models I can't seem to dedicate myself to either of them. It's always "Ooh, I want that!" "OMG those Plagueburst Crawlers look awesome! <gets 3 of em...>" "I want a bunch of Hammernators for a Land Raider Crusader! <buys>" and now that the new Daemons codex is almost up for pre-order I'm like "Ahh Rotigus looks so awesome! And that snail thing too! I want a Daemon detachment for my DG army!". I've been behaving myself like a friggen spoiled child for the past months

 Yodhrin wrote:
Snipped stuff to most recent quote block.....


You're not getting it. The OP is asking for help because the same prevailing culture that's behind most of the "knuckle down and power through" advice given in response has made them feel like there's something wrong with them if they can't sit down and make one, single, game-playable army without being "distracted", and my argument is there's nothing wrong with them in the first place & the prevailing attitude is nonsense, and maybe if folk actually thought about the context and subtext of the problem before replying they'd have thought to mention "hey, maybe you just like doing loads of different projects, don't feel like you *must* do whole armies in one go" before jumping straight to how they should "fix" themselves.

When people are telling someone "hey, maybe you're just not dedicated and super-serial enough to be a wargamer" I'm comfortable saying the problem is more with that side of the issue than mine.

You might want to stop projecting on the OP's motives and read what he actually wrote.

However, on the larger point about the industry, I think you are right in the sense that the marketing and such of the wargaming hobby is always focused on bigger is better. More armies, more toys, more games, more painting, bigger tables, more terrain, etc. No one needs to buy into that mentality, but the companies and community sure do make it feel like the norm. That can make it harder to resist and say.... "nah, I'm good where I am at and with what I am doing."

So, maybe the OP will come back and tell us more about how he is really feeling, but I don;t blame him if he doesn't.

 Easy E wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Snipped stuff to most recent quote block.....


You're not getting it. The OP is asking for help because the same prevailing culture that's behind most of the "knuckle down and power through" advice given in response has made them feel like there's something wrong with them if they can't sit down and make one, single, game-playable army without being "distracted", and my argument is there's nothing wrong with them in the first place & the prevailing attitude is nonsense, and maybe if folk actually thought about the context and subtext of the problem before replying they'd have thought to mention "hey, maybe you just like doing loads of different projects, don't feel like you *must* do whole armies in one go" before jumping straight to how they should "fix" themselves.

When people are telling someone "hey, maybe you're just not dedicated and super-serial enough to be a wargamer" I'm comfortable saying the problem is more with that side of the issue than mine.

You might want to stop projecting on the OP's motives and read what he actually wrote.

However, on the larger point about the industry, I think you are right in the sense that the marketing and such of the wargaming hobby is always focused on bigger is better. More armies, more toys, more games, more painting, bigger tables, more terrain, etc. No one needs to buy into that mentality, but the companies and community sure do make it feel like the norm. That can make it harder to resist and say.... "nah, I'm good where I am at and with what I am doing."

So, maybe the OP will come back and tell us more about how he is really feeling, but I don;t blame him if he doesn't.

That's GW marketing, not the hobby marketing. There's a significant portion of the hobby that markets smaller tables, smaller armies, none or not many big miniatures and affordable terrain.

 -Loki- wrote:


That's GW marketing, not the hobby marketing. There's a significant portion of the hobby that markets smaller tables, smaller armies, none or not many big miniatures and affordable terrain.

Like Mercs, Bushido, Infinity, Batman, Arena Rex, Malifaux, etc. Yet for some reason they keep coming out with new versions and new toys. It is not just GW. They all want you to spend more and get more factions, more stuff, newest shiny rules, etc. GW is just less shameless about it.

I don't blame them because that is how you stay in business.

JoshInJapan wrote:One more idea: start and maintain a painting blog on Dakka.

I have been told this before a few years ago. I was thinking I am too old for that. Screw age, I used that excuse long enough now. So how do I do a blog? What would be a good site to host my pics now that I don't use photobucket no more.

Yodhrin wrote:
This is a passtime, a hobby, it's supposed to be fun not a chore that you force yourself to work through out of some misguided sense of obligation, not a job that you force yourself to complete to satisfy other people's standards. If chasing the new shiny stuff gives you pleasure then do it without guilt or shame.

While people have said you are wrong and they could be correct since I just wanted to finish something instead of jumping around all the time, this sentence here hit me hard. This sentence is so correct. I let the hobby become a chore. I did try to have my standards from Eavy Metal team and quit so many times. Then I stopped that and had my standards to others who were way above me. I quit again. I realized now, hopefully not to late that I will never get better if I keep quitting all the time. I tried the "don't buy nothing till everything else is done" and I just became more miserable. Especially the wife.

So now what I am going to do is take everyone's advice here and use most of it in some way. I am loving the Arm length standard. (sorry forgot who posted that. Tried to quote you but ended up quoting the wrong person. So thank you very much for that.)

I am motivated in painting again. I am loving converting. I am hating cleaning off the sprues. . I see new shiney now, and I iwll buy it with no moreguilt or shame. As long as I am enjoying the hobby nothing wrong with it. So thank you very much for that Yodhrin. I was about to quit not buying anything new anymore. For me, I needed that. You just helped me enjoy our hobby even more because I was feeling guilty. As long as I am painting now, and modelling now, I will enjoy the hobby. I guess Kirby was right sort of. Part of the hobby is buying, but it's also buying more than just GW product.

So now I will paint or model in small batches to get a 5 or 10 man/brood squad going. I will have as many projects going so I am not always painting/modelling gaunts all the time to break up the monotiny.

I know I have been hard on myself in my abilites. Life, depression, etc, but loving the "Arms length" standard and found my old minis and what I thought was bad, is actually not bad, and ok at arms length.

So I will start a blog once I figue out how to do so. If you guys/girls can give me tips, I will do so.

Again, thank you, EVERYONE for helping me. It's greatly appreciated. I don't need to be a master painter/modeler. I can be the worst modler/painter ever. As long as I am having fun, that is all that matters. I refound a gaunt my son who was 3 when painted it about 13 years ago. It is a rainbow gaunt, every colour he could find he slapped on it. He had so much fun and passion when he did it, that is all that matters. I wish I never forgot that. Just glad I refound it, and help from everyone here to help me find it.

Once again. Thank you.

Davor

Davor wrote:

JoshInJapan wrote:One more idea: start and maintain a painting blog on Dakka.

I have been told this before a few years ago. I was thinking I am too old for that. Screw age, I used that excuse long enough now. So how do I do a blog? What would be a good site to host my pics now that I don't use photobucket no more.

I host all my photos here on Dakka.

 Easy E wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:


That's GW marketing, not the hobby marketing. There's a significant portion of the hobby that markets smaller tables, smaller armies, none or not many big miniatures and affordable terrain.

Like Mercs, Bushido, Infinity, Batman, Arena Rex, Malifaux, etc. Yet for some reason they keep coming out with new versions and new toys. It is not just GW. They all want you to spend more and get more factions, more stuff, newest shiny rules, etc. GW is just less shameless about it.

I don't blame them because that is how you stay in business.

They release new stuff because they're companies that sell products, but the overall list size and overall actual usefulness of models is much better. Plus they work hard to ensure old models are as useful as new models, so purchases of new models isn't a requirement if you want to be competitive.

It's the difference between 'hey that looks like a cool new strategy/tactic' and 'well, these units are terrible now, I'll by the new ones'.

GW is the company that pushes hardest better rules for new releases and have every edition increased the size or armies by lowering points costs to ensure you keep buying.

Different strategies sell product. GW just have a fething abysmal strategy that abuses their customers.

Davor wrote:

JoshInJapan wrote:
Once again. Thank you.

Davor

I am glad this thread was useful to you. Thanks for checking back in and not leaving us hanging. Good luck and have fun!

I know quite a few people with this problem, and i think it is partly expectations vs reality.

The start of any project is by far the most fun moment. Once you start slogging at something it becomes far less fun, especially when painting miniatures as they generally look rubbish during the process and it only starts to get fun again towards the end when the model begins to pop. Even then, they probably aren't as good as you hoped/imagined they would be (mine never are) and there are so many more to do. This is the point where temptation creeps in, because those new models just came out and boy aren't they exciting! Starting them is so much more appealing that continuing with the current project which just doesn't seem to inspire anymore.

In other words, you might be chasing the excitement of starting a project. It is by far the most fun part of most hobbies. But you will be in the same situation once you start that new army and moving between projects won't actually make you happy in the long term, it will merely give a short term burst of excitement. Maybe try a small achievable project. The satisfaction of finishing it (even if its not as good as you hoped) it almost as good as the excitement of starting, and might act as a good motivation for another (slightly bigger) project.

Painting should ideally be fun, but like most things in life it will also sometimes be stressful, hard work, or disappointing. There are various ways to make it easier (dedicate a bit of time each day, make sure your project space is well set up so you can just sit down and start), but ultimately you just have to grit your teeth and keep going. There is no magic trick to discipline, its simply deciding on a goal and pursuing it whether you are enjoying the process or not.

To quote Peter De Vries: “I write when I'm inspired, and I see to it that I'm inspired at nine o'clock every morning.”