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 ChazSexington wrote:
Based on which codices are left, it's got pigtails and is called Leman Russ.

Alternatively, I think the Lion, seen as Luther has gone for a gander.

ya know what would be a GREAT plot twist if they bring back the Lion... if Luther repents and is forgiven byu the Lion and the dark angels entire focus moves to "finding their lsot brethren and seeing weather or not they can be returned to the fold" could be corny but if done right it could really make a great sudden twist.

No love for Corax yet?

 Grimtuff wrote:
To me, this "giant in baroque armour" could be anything

I agree with Tneva, that wasn't a primarch, that was a Custodes, and Trazyn doesn't even have him anymore, he was released next to Greyfax on Cadia...

Lorgar...I could dig him coming back and being all "I told you big E was a god". Most records of that time would be lost to time and legend. He could cozy up with the ministorum and be right at home. Only rowboat might crack off but Lorgar with his proselytising and the ministorum with this eloquent and faithful speaker would be more trouble than they're worth, might even risk turning a very religous imperium against him.

R: He is a traitor who turned his back on the emperor, he dies.
L: I always believed big E was a god. Now he lights all humanity. Are you saying he's not a god?
*Every shrine world and any moderate imperial world in a 5000 light year radius takes a sharp breath*

...

Vulkan was present during Beast Arises. But that was due to a promise he had with a world. He seems very disinterested in rejoining the Imperium. To the point that he did not allow his presence to be known to his chapter for fear they would be distracted by his presence.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Lorgar...I could dig him coming back and being all "I told you big E was a god". Most records of that time would be lost to time and legend. He could cozy up with the ministorum and be right at home. Only rowboat might crack off but Lorgar with his proselytising and the ministorum with this eloquent and faithful speaker would be more trouble than they're worth, might even risk turning a very religous imperium against him.

R: He is a traitor who turned his back on the emperor, he dies.
L: I always believed big E was a god. Now he lights all humanity. Are you saying he's not a god?
*Every shrine world and any moderate imperial world in a 5000 light year radius takes a sharp breath*

...

Roboute wouldn't just "might crack off" - he'd devote pretty much everything had had to wiping him off the galaxy.

The Mark of Calth (the combat timer issued during the Battle of Calth) is still running, and will continue to run for as long as a Word Bearer lives. The Ultramarines have a particular hatred for them, as do most First Founding Chapters and their direct descendants (what with Istvaan V, the whole Erebus thing, and generally being the reason for the Heresy). The Ministorum wouldn't side with a corrupted Daemon Primarch, no matter what he's saying - he IS a daemon.

 Irbis wrote:
No love for Corax yet?

 Grimtuff wrote:
To me, this "giant in baroque armour" could be anything

I agree with Tneva, that wasn't a primarch, that was a Custodes, and Trazyn doesn't even have him anymore, he was released next to Greyfax on Cadia...

Right, was not aware that that mystery had been solved. Not read the Gathering Storm books (only read some TL;DR summaries of them) as I was out of 40k at the time.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Based on which codices are left, it's got pigtails and is called Leman Russ.

Alternatively, I think the Lion, seen as Luther has gone for a gander.

ya know what would be a GREAT plot twist if they bring back the Lion... if Luther repents and is forgiven byu the Lion and the dark angels entire focus moves to "finding their lsot brethren and seeing weather or not they can be returned to the fold" could be corny but if done right it could really make a great sudden twist.

I think what is more likely to happen is that luther and marbas (daemon prince who freed luther) will lead the reunited fallen force that has gathered in the warp against the dark angels. The lion will 'wake up' to face this new threat to the imperium. Given that the lion and DA will want to keep this new fallen army secret they will turn their back on Guilliman and the rest of the imperium to do so.
We already know that the Lion and Guilliman are not on good terms and that the lion sees himself as the greater leader/warmaster. I don't know where it will go from here but a civil war doesn't seem unheard of. The DA do have a history of turning on the imperium when anyone gets close to the truth.
Whatever happens I really do hope there is some progression with the fallen fluff with the release of the Lion, especially given all the hints in the new DA codex that the fallen are mobilising.

actually by the end of Ruinstorm it seems Gulliman and the Lion had come to terms.

Wouldn't clones of primarchs just be big gene modded humans? I thought the whole point of the real primarchs was they were warp..infused..something demigods.

If you can just clone then, well meh..

I haven't read much from black library in years so sorry if I'm out of the loop. They are good books, I'm just lazy.

Lol..just pictured cawl making a new wave of guilliman. If primaris is better than standard, why not gullimarines.

I need to read the book, but wasn't there something about the clones having memories from the originals? Which itself implies some real serious weirdness and a wonderful potential to annoy people with the idea of Sanguinius coming back.

I think Russ makes the most sense. I can only imagine the spectacle that would be a Russ model. The other Primarchs would be cool but a raging Russ would be a real sight.

I would love a Lion and Luther box set, but it'll be Russ next. Gulliman needs a counterpoint in fluff and Russ is very much his opposite. Plus that codex hasn't dropped yet, which ups the likelihood.

BrianDavion wrote:
actually by the end of Ruinstorm it seems Gulliman and the Lion had come to terms.

That is true but tge lion has always considered himself worthy of being the warlord of the imperium and has explicity saught after this title. I dont think he will fall in line with guiliman. I think it woukd be unfluffy if he did.

fishwaffle2232 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
actually by the end of Ruinstorm it seems Gulliman and the Lion had come to terms.

That is true but tge lion has always considered himself worthy of being the warlord of the imperium and has explicity saught after this title. I dont think he will fall in line with guiliman. I think it woukd be unfluffy if he did.

why? keep in mind by this time Gulliman's been running the show for a century. and has been handling both civic and military leadership. I suspect the Lion's smart eneugh to not randomly pick a fight over that. a MORE LIKELY thing is for Gulliman to jointly plan a campaign with the Lion, that the Lion will lead, while Gulliman would hanlde another front, OR use the oppertunity to really insisute some actual reforms.

BrianDavion wrote:

fishwaffle2232 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
actually by the end of Ruinstorm it seems Gulliman and the Lion had come to terms.

That is true but tge lion has always considered himself worthy of being the warlord of the imperium and has explicity saught after this title. I dont think he will fall in line with guiliman. I think it woukd be unfluffy if he did.

why? keep in mind by this time Gulliman's been running the show for a century. and has been handling both civic and military leadership. I suspect the Lion's smart eneugh to not randomly pick a fight over that. a MORE LIKELY thing is for Gulliman to jointly plan a campaign with the Lion, that the Lion will lead, while Gulliman would hanlde another front, OR use the oppertunity to really insisute some actual reforms.

When the lion and guilliman worked together when they werr the triumvirate the lion did not think guilliman did a good job and because of this took the reigns off of Guilliman, this was just before the triumvirate got disbanded.
If the fallen return, which i am pre-empting will be the fluff that comes with the lions return, the lion and DA are not going to want anyome else invovlved in their campaign against the fallen. Destroying the fallen will be their number one priority (as it has always been) and they will be secretitive and noncooperative in their efforts. Unless the DA suddenly decide that the centuries of secrecy were for nothing and tjay ot is time everyone learnt of their heresy.
If the lion comes back and decides to be a team player, i think that would be quite surprising and also boring from a narrative perspective.

the Lion didn't not think Gulliman did a "Bad job" the argument was more one of jurisdiction

I would bet on leman russ. The lack of a space wolf codex, or even any rumors about one, given that every other marine army, loyalist and chaos, have been released is more than a little suspicious at this point.

It seems likely they have something big planned for space puppies. That or geedubz is terrible at timing their releases.

There were some rather silly rumors of the Lion, and I think that's extremely unlikely, given the DA codex is already out. That, and if the Lion were actually up next, he'd probably spark a second civil war if G-man didn't relinquish command of the imperium to the Lion.

Dorn is plausible, but again, they really seem to be holding back with space puppies, and likely for a reason.

But Hell's Bells, who knows. For all we know they could be ready to resurrect Sanguinius.

BrianDavion wrote:
the Lion didn't not think Gulliman did a "Bad job" the argument was more one of jurisdiction

I just reread angels of caliban and I have to disagree. The fact that they almost came to blows so many times and the fact that the Lion believed Guilliman failed in handling the situation with Konrad is clearly more that an issue with jurisdiction.

Who knows though if Guilliman hands over control of the imperial army and makes the lion warmaster so to speak, things could work out. It would proabably make for a deadly alliance given Guilliman organisational prowress.

Back to the topic of the thread though. I hope russ is next but I hoped the same for the lion and there were no lack of rumours for his return with the codex release.

Other than the SW codex release coming up, why do people think it will be Russ, does the fluff point that way?

I think it most likely Russ is next, but I do think the reason they got Luther off the Rock was to clear the way for the Lions return.

If Luther was still on the Rock GW would have to arrange a confrontation between them as soon as the Lion awakes, with him gone they can take their time and get much more out of it.

The last point I’d like to make is unless I’m miss remembering my DA background the Lions bedtime started straight after his confrontation with Luther, so he has no idea what his sons have been up to since. There’s no guarantee he’ll be happy with all the dodgy stuff his sons have gone up to since he’s been asleep.

I fell out of 40k after unremembered empire so I’m not up to date, but I remember the lion being hard to get a read on, I think the writers purposely wrote him like that, I really could see him being fine with what his sons have done but I can also see him being very angry with them. The later would be most interesting for me but I don’t play DA

fishwaffle2232 wrote:
Other than the SW codex release coming up, why do people think it will be Russ, does the fluff point that way?

There is the fall-out from the Wraith of Magnus to sort out. Russ coming back to kick his earstwhile brother's mutated derriere would be fitting.

But other than that, it is largely a timing thing. If they were going to do the Lion next, I think they would have released Space Wolves with Blood Angels before Christmas and left the Dark Angels until this Spring. I guess we will know for sure in another 3-4 months.

Dorn seems to be completely ruled out. If GW was bringing Rogal back then they probably would have synchronized his release with that of the 30k Dorn. The release schedule points to Leman Russ being the next primarch to show up, but there isn’t a whole lot of foreshadowing for either Russ or the Lion.

Dorn. It won't be but I'd love it.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Dorn seems to be completely ruled out. If GW was bringing Rogal back then they probably would have synchronized his release with that of the 30k Dorn. The release schedule points to Leman Russ being the next primarch to show up, but there isn’t a whole lot of foreshadowing for either Russ or the Lion.

Gulliman was pretty unexpected too. a year before his return, would anyone have even guessed?

There is word of another summer campaign, I'd expect a primarch release to be with that, not a codex.

The Lion is well setup to return, he is confirmed to be sleeping in the rock, luther has escaped and is assumed to be leading the fallen, who are now revealed to be at full legion strength. It's like what happens when you square i, it's about to get real.

With that said, and my obvious preference being for the lion, I think Russ is probably the next primarch. He has more urgent threads outstanding, like the fact the space wolves are on the verge of extinction after their gene vaults were wiped out. Bobby G bought them a stay of execution with the primaris marines, but a few hundred/thousand extra bodies is just going to delay the inevitable. Then there is the matter with the wulfen, and the hints that magnus has been dropping about the location of Leman russ.

I think the final issue is that the lion is too much like Bobby G, brilliant tactician, natural born leader, but where Guilliman is a better statesman, the Lion is a better military commander. To contrast guilliman as much as mortarion and Magnus contrasted each other, you'd need someone as wacky as leman russ.

 djones520 wrote:
There is word of another summer campaign, I'd expect a primarch release to be with that, not a codex.

I think the big summer event is going to be AoS this year.

generally it seems the pattern is for Primarchs to release in the fall/winter. Magnus and Nort where October, and Gulliman was what Febuary?

 Karhedron wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
There is word of another summer campaign, I'd expect a primarch release to be with that, not a codex.

I think the big summer event is going to be AoS this year.

Shame, I really enjoyed Kantor. Also give me Fulgrim or give me nothing.

BrianDavion wrote:
generally it seems the pattern is for Primarchs to release in the fall/winter. Magnus and Nort where October, and Gulliman was what Febuary?

Magnus and Morty were October while BobbyG was March/April IIRC so about 6 months apart (roughly).

its not entirely impossible for them to want the Lion and the Wolf released... simultaneously.