Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You're thinking flesh hooks

 Marmatag wrote:
You're thinking flesh hooks

If your talking about point costs no I am not. Redning claws cost 2 points. GS base cost is 12ppm. GS cost 14 points each by default.

If you are talking about their ability to bring a gun, ah yeah. I guess 1 in 4 GS can get a 6" a2 gun for an additional 2ppm if they wanted. So it is possible for them to get some gun action on 1/4th of their models at 16points total for each of those models i guess.

It's hard to remember fleshhooks on GS since nobody ever uses them.

Codex Tyranid genestealers are 10 base and 2 for claws. You’re thinking of GSC stealers, they cost more for some reason.

 Lance845 wrote:


12 ppm base plus 2ppm for rending claws. Each GS costs 14points.

GS have no option to deepstrike.

GS do not have a 3+ save.

GS have no access to ranged weapons.

GS have no access to options like plasma.

One in every 5 marines can have a str 8 ap -4 d3 dmg melee weapon.

GS are 10 base plus 2 for rending claws. Assault marines cant deepstrike either. GS dont need to deepstrike. When they pop out from a node they are setup within 6" of the node. If the swarmlord is nearby they can move 8", advance 3D6, using the highest roll in the shooting and and charge 2D6 in the charge phase. Thats an average threat range of 6+8+4+7=25". Maximum is 32", with a stratagem 38". No SM unit can be set up on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase and move in the shooting phase up to 38", with charge. GS have access to ranged weapons, flesh hooks. The eviscerator is 22 pts. and -1 to hit, which is insane.

Ok. Just pulled out my books to verify all the stuff.

You are correct. Genestealers have been dropped to 10 PPM. GSCs are 15 base (down from 18 base in index).

Yeah all you have to do is dump 300 points into the Swarmlord, be Kraken, and keep him next to your infestation nodes, which you've protected from automatically dying to throwaway deepstrikers like Scions.

The funny part is you have to screen your nodes, and genetsealers can't move through other units because they don't fly. So you have to find a way to protect your nodes while also being able to get out of the GS way. It's just doesn't work out like you are claiming it does, unless you're playing really clueless players.

27% of your list has to be devoted to this combo. That's more of an investment than a Fire Raptor... with reroll auras.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
Ok. Just pulled out my books to verify all the stuff.

You are correct. Genestealers have been dropped to 10 PPM. GSCs are 15 base (down from 18 base in index).

Genestealers were kept at the same price from index->codex->CA. You've been making it harder on yourself it appears, hehe.

 p5freak wrote:


GS are 10 base plus 2 for rending claws. Assault marines cant deepstrike either. GS dont need to deepstrike. When they pop out from a node they are setup within 6" of the node. If the swarmlord is nearby they can move 8", advance 3D6, using the highest roll in the shooting and and charge 2D6 in the charge phase. Thats an average threat range of 6+8+4+7=25". Maximum is 32", with a stratagem 38". No SM unit can be set up on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase and move in the shooting phase up to 38", with charge. GS have access to ranged weapons, flesh hooks. The eviscerator is 22 pts. and -1 to hit, which is insane.

-Assault Marines CAN deepstrike. They have the option to take it.
-GS do have an option for nodes which can be destroyed by deepstrikers. pretty easily just by getting near them.
-They don't just get to advance 3d6. That is a specific to Kraken's hive fleet adaptation.
-The swarmlord costs 300 points and goes down like a sack of rocks within 2 turns MAX. You cannot argue specific synergies in specific lists when calculating a single units cost.
-Gee, only a 50% chance to hit on the marines? You sure there is no synergy with some character giving rerolls or +1s that you couldn't pack in next to it? Why are you calculating Assault marines naked in a vacuum but GS get calculated based on hive fleet adaptations and one of the most expensive HQs out there?

It can't be used on the Tfex. It's simple to remember. Shoot twice = infantry only. +1 dmg per shot = Monsters only.

Otherwise I would fill my list with exocrines and use shoot twice to shoot 4 times all the time,

I meant the T-fex shooting twice because of no moving. So 40 fleshborer hive shots and still the benefit of the stratagem for +1 damage is marginal.

Tyrannofex have to move to hit stuff. Odds are you're not getting those 40 shots. Also they don't double shoot in overwatch... which is kind of important considering the Hive & Spray monsters need to move up a bit to hit stuff.

The Swarmlord is crap. For less than 90 points more you can have Roboute Guilliman giving your marines reroll EVERYTHING and an extra 3CP, also getting CP back on 5s and 6s. And despite having no guns and offering nothing other than replacing a shooting phase with a movement phase, the Swarmlord gets PUNKED by Guilliman in melee.

Flyrants, Rippers, Genestealers, Hive Guard are probably our best overall units that can fit into almost any list. I would expect to see at least 2 of these units in any tournament level list.

Hormagaunts, Exocrines, Neurothropes, Malanthrope, termagants, Trygons, Swarmlord, Tyrannofex, Carnifex, Biovores, Mucolid Spores are all very good units, and several from this list will likely appear in most lists. Some are a bit more specialized and are unlikely to appear in certain styles of lists. You can easily build a competitive list using many of these units.

Gargoyles, Dimacheron, Venomthrope, Toxicrene, Pyrovore, Warriors, Old One Eye, Sporocysts, Spore Mines, Tyrant Guard, Walking Tyrants, Broodlords, Raveners, Red Terror, Mawloc, Tyrannocyte are all completely usable units. They are not exceptional statistically, and may be overshadowed by other units for their role. However, they may perform some specific function that cannot be fulfilled elsewhere, or there may be specific playstyle builds that revolve around them. Sporocysts, for example, are something I would never recommend to a new player to randomly include, but smart play with a list built around them has a lot of possibilities. Playing at a casual level, units from this list should not leave you feeling as if you're fighting uphill, except in bad matchups.

Zoanthropes, Haruspex, Lictors, Crone, Harpy, Tervigon, Malceptor, Deathleaper are objectively weak units. They statistically lack durability/damage for their cost, while also failing to provide specialized abilities that cannot be found elsewhere. Luckily for us, even our weakest tier of units are still actually objectively ~decent~, so you can include these units in casual play if you really like them. So long as they're not the majority of your army, you shouldn't feel handicapped. Just don't expect them to do much. Some of these units may be used for gimmicks (Zoanthrope bombs, tervigons in low point games, etc.), but in general, their roles can be filled elsewhere more effectively.

 Badablack wrote:
Codex Tyranid genestealers are 10 base and 2 for claws. You’re thinking of GSC stealers, they cost more for some reason.

They pay a "tax" for Ambush. If Nids could pay more to do the same I surely would.