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Lots of other people have done it, some are even doing it to orks, sisters etc who haven't made the change.
As I said I've done it with plastics I've also done it with the old slotabase metals.
Machining the resin for them was a pain as they are now custom based on resin with the base tabs intact but I didn't trust superglue to hold.
I have old 25mm terminators but so what I dont use them anymore as they were replaced, using the same argument I could play them as they are GW models on the supplied with the model bases.

I have an old 25mm Terminator and was told that it was too small to use in 40K anymore.

Ice_can wrote:
Lots of other people have done it, some are even doing it to orks, sisters etc who haven't made the change.
As I said I've done it with plastics I've also done it with the old slotabase metals.
Machining the resin for them was a pain as they are now custom based on resin with the base tabs intact but I didn't trust superglue to hold.

Sure, you can do it. I would. But that is up to each person, and it is totally a TFG move to demand people to rebase their models.

I have old 25mm terminators but so what I dont use them anymore as they were replaced, using the same argument I could play them as they are GW models on the supplied with the model bases.

Of course you could use them.

We have a player that uses the old metal GUO with the new Codex rules.


Now i have to disagree with this. The Index GUOprofile deals with the smaller model (with its 12 wounds). The new profile was made with the much bigger model in mind.

I agree the old model would look ridiculous on the bigger base... but base size SHOULD be the latest size applied to the model in question.

I have the old Abaddon (the only abaddon i guess) and the old metal Terminators on 40mm. Theyre small, but on appropriate base sizes. I use the old Gorkamorka Trukks, but kit-bashed 2 trukks together to create the same size sillouete of the new plastic ork trukk kit.

I suppose my real grief stems that I converted my own metal GUO into a Daemon Prince (thank goodness Corruption is a sword relic available to them), so to see the exact same model played as a GUO proper makes my skin crawl (in a very nurgly way).

Context matters.

Your buddy using an old model because the new one just came out and he doesn't want to buy the same model again isn't him trying to cheat, it's him being a reasonable guy.

Someone who's converted a beautiful assassin model on a scenic base isn't trying to cheat. They're probably not even really interested in the game nearly as much as they are in the hobby aspect of 40k.

Somebody at a tournament basing all their melee units on smaller bases so they can pile in easier, or putting all their characters on 60mm bases so they have larger auras, is doing something else entirely.

 meleti wrote:
Context matters.

Your buddy using an old model because the new one just came out and he doesn't want to buy the same model again isn't him trying to cheat, it's him being a reasonable guy.

Someone who's converted a beautiful assassin model on a scenic base isn't trying to cheat. They're probably not even really interested in the game nearly as much as they are in the hobby aspect of 40k.

Somebody at a tournament basing all their melee units on smaller bases so they can pile in easier, or putting all their characters on 60mm bases so they have larger auras, is doing something else entirely.

Totally agree, I haven't rebased or replaced my old Blood Angels because I have over 100 of them... And they are ALL metal, including the Dreads. I have based them with 25mm round lipped bases because I like the way they look. I am more concerned with my enjoyment of my dream army and the way it looks versus the game itself.

Base extenders fit on scenic bases, are cheap, easy to apply and look good.

Not getting into arguments with your opponents : priceless.

Ice_can wrote:
Lots of other people have done it, some are even doing it to orks, sisters etc who haven't made the change.
As I said I've done it with plastics I've also done it with the old slotabase metals.
Machining the resin for them was a pain as they are now custom based on resin with the base tabs intact but I didn't trust superglue to hold.
I have old 25mm terminators but so what I dont use them anymore as they were replaced, using the same argument I could play them as they are GW models on the supplied with the model bases.

Yes you have done it. Was your base particularly complex? Howabout costing 0.5£ per model plus need to paint complex base?

It's just extra trouble for what can hurt or give you advantage so it's incorrect to say you are gaining advantage automatically.

It's quite a TFG to demand others to do that to THEIR models. So again: If it bothers you then you do it, pay the fees and if you damage the model compensate for the damage. THAT is fair. Otherwise you are being TFG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Base extenders fit on scenic bases, are cheap, easy to apply and look good.

Not getting into arguments with your opponents : priceless.

Base extenders don't have matching top to say resin pieces. Or show me base extender that magically transforms itself to be 1=1 match to existing base. All I have seen are flat surface on top.

If opponent is such a TFG that he makes fuss and refuses to do the work then he or she is TFG I have 0 interest in playing. I don't have to play against TFG's and waste my time. No game is then better than game.

we really do not need the name calling.

Crimson wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Lots of other people have done it, some are even doing it to orks, sisters etc who haven't made the change.
As I said I've done it with plastics I've also done it with the old slotabase metals.
Machining the resin for them was a pain as they are now custom based on resin with the base tabs intact but I didn't trust superglue to hold.

Sure, you can do it. I would. But that is up to each person, and it is totally a TFG move to demand people to rebase their models.

I love how I have become TFG just because I said I've done it real mature attitude.

I have old 25mm terminators but so what I dont use them anymore as they were replaced, using the same argument I could play them as they are GW models on the supplied with the model bases.

Of course you could use them.

You can't see the insane level of advantage that would give someone in gaining cover and being able to manage CC.
The rules have always been written around the current models, i love old models and they are nice nostalgia pieces, but they need to be kept current if you want to use them competitively.

tneva82 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
Lots of other people have done it, some are even doing it to orks, sisters etc who haven't made the change.
As I said I've done it with plastics I've also done it with the old slotabase metals.
Machining the resin for them was a pain as they are now custom based on resin with the base tabs intact but I didn't trust superglue to hold.
I have old 25mm terminators but so what I dont use them anymore as they were replaced, using the same argument I could play them as they are GW models on the supplied with the model bases.

Yes you have done it. Was your base particularly complex? Howabout costing 0.5£ per model plus need to paint complex base?

It's just extra trouble for what can hurt or give you advantage so it's incorrect to say you are gaining advantage automatically.

It's quite a TFG to demand others to do that to THEIR models. So again: If it bothers you then you do it, pay the fees and if you damage the model compensate for the damage. THAT is fair. Otherwise you are being TFG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Base extenders fit on scenic bases, are cheap, easy to apply and look good.

Not getting into arguments with your opponents : priceless.

Base extenders don't have matching top to say resin pieces. Or show me base extender that magically transforms itself to be 1=1 match to existing base. All I have seen are flat surface on top.

If opponent is such a TFG that he makes fuss and refuses to do the work then he or she is TFG I have 0 interest in playing. I don't have to play against TFG's and waste my time. No game is then better than game.

Lets see new bases are all GW or other brand scenic bases or custom made cost haven't got a clue it's not relevant.

Smaller bases will rarely hurt you, but aside from the direct gameplay benifits I was pointing out the real world benifit of larger bases making older metal and part metal mini's less prone to wobbly model and damage.

If you geniunely believe that basing models inline with the current models is a TFG move god help you when you meet a TFG for real.

Now that I think about it... I haven't seen anything indicating that you can use non-GW bases. Even for all the tournament rules and regulations I've read over the years, everyone will specify a policy on GW model composition, but no one has stated that non-GW bases are ever acceptable.

Think about that a while, cheaters.

But have they ever said they aren't allowed? I know GW can get very pick about what is/isn't allowed at WHW, but anywhere else?
Also I would bet most people probably couldn't tell a third party base from a gw plastic base with sculpting.

Ice_can wrote:
But have they ever said they aren't allowed? I know GW can get very pick about what is/isn't allowed at WHW, but anywhere else?
Also I would bet most people probably couldn't tell a third party base from a gw plastic base with sculpting.

It's a permissive ruleset though. You aren't denied permission. You have to be granted permission.

 daedalus wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
But have they ever said they aren't allowed? I know GW can get very pick about what is/isn't allowed at WHW, but anywhere else?
Also I would bet most people probably couldn't tell a third party base from a gw plastic base with sculpting.

It's a permissive ruleset though. You aren't denied permission. You have to be granted permission.

In that same vein, the rules do not permit you to assemble or paint your models...

Ok, can someone please explain to me what TFG stands for?

Dwro1234 wrote:
Ok, can someone please explain to me what TFG stands for?

Temple Flame Guard, I think.

Dwro1234 wrote:
Ok, can someone please explain to me what TFG stands for?

That Fething Guy. The guy who is a sore loser and an all-round jerk.

Contrary to popular belief, wanting to follow the rules doesn't make you TFG.

Hot take: It's 100% the rules writers' responsibility to establish base sizes for models. If they don't then it's the TOs responsibility. If neither does, then the smartest option is to not play the game unless such a rule is established, either by the company, or if the company doesn't, then the TO. In non-tournament environments, it's obviously up to the players to decide who and what they will and won't play with/against.

Incidentally, this is why I never, ever play/played any GW game in a tournament setting.

It is much easier for players to adjust, adapt, or ignore rules to suit their taste, than it is to craft rules from nothing to make up for the designers' oversight.

I'm just wondering when 40k got so serious. Maybe I'm misremembering but it doesn't seem so long ago that rule of cool was the go to, WYSIWYG was nice but looking cool was nicer, and only TFG was gonna get his knickers in a knot about your old models being on old bases...

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, wanting to follow the rules doesn't make you TFG.

It doesn't? phew, I was worried.

OT, I used to be a fixture at a tournament that was a monthly occurrence about an hour from me but what killed my attendance was a guy that showed up at the tournament with a 'counts as' list that was incomplete and had to borrow models from the TO to play. It wouldn't have been too bad if they had been the actual models, and only from a single person, but when the TO went around asking the attendees for spare models for the kid to use, infuriated me. This devilfish was a rhino, that carnifex was a dreadknight, etc.
My issue was, I limited my army selection to the models that I had, and if I didn't have the models, I didn't use that selection from the codex. I didn't consider it to be out of bounds to hold myself to such a standard, but it stuck in my craw that someone else wouldn't hold themselves to such a standard, and the TO enabled such a thing when the thing was supposed to be wysiwyg? AND USING OTHER PEOPLES' models??? that he didn't even respect?

 Brunius wrote:
I'm just wondering when 40k got so serious. Maybe I'm misremembering but it doesn't seem so long ago that rule of cool was the go to, WYSIWYG was nice but looking cool was nicer, and only TFG was gonna get his knickers in a knot about your old models being on old bases...

And they couldn't even get upset then because the rules for those editions said that you use the bases that your model came supplied with, though you can use a different base if it looks cool. Those rules made the old metal termies on 25mm bases legal as long as they came with those bases.

I feel there are three arguments going on about 32mm bases.

"Using 25 mm is modelling for advantage"
"They look better"
"It is easier to ballance a modell on 32mm bases"



So..
My counter to these
"Using 25 mm is modelling for advantage"

This really depends on how you play.
These scenarios where you can get a few more models in, fighting in 4 rows etc. They are interesting theories, but never really happen in actual games.
It would demend on very exact positioning etc.
On the other hand it could be argued that 32 mm bases allow a squadron to spread out more, for example to hold more obectives or stayoing within range of aura abilities.

Also: If we measure bases then we should also measure the dimensions of the figure.
Putting minis on any sort of elevated bases or even raising their arms might affect line of sight.
The same goes for models kneeling down etc.
It would also be relevant for use with older models that are smaller or e.g. looted tanks for orks.

*****************************************

"They look better"

Firstly....this is a statement of personal taste, not facts...howewver:

This may be true if you look at an individual model outside the battlefield.
But on the battlefeild thay stand in groups.
I personally prefer the look of a tghtly packed horde of ork rather than a spread out group of individuals.
-It is more similar to just about every illustration of them (or genstelers etc).

Also
More often than not, your bases will not match the battlefield you play on.
- I usually paint mine in a gray city-fight style, that will not match green grass, jungle etc.
Larger bases will make this disruption more visible.


*****************************************************************

"It is easier to ballance a modell on 32mm bases"

Yes...if you play on a flat board. With any elevated terrain, it becomes less and less easy, especially when it comes to stair-steps and similar.



******************************************************************

Appart from all of this I would also like to point out:

Effectivenses
A 25 mm base is -about- 1" (not exactly)
It can spped up the game to use bases for a range-reference, for aura-abilities.

Our proud history
Part of the culture around the game is it's history, uniting generations where people bring their old collections.
Dont force people to tear their collectibles appart for som sort of -percieved- advantage.

The economics argument
Minitaures are expencive. We all know this. However it has allways been stated that a 40k-army is a good investment, because once you have it...you can play as many gamaes as you like.


In the end we must accept that this hobby is fairy artistical. We shold allow for a lot of creative freedom when it comes to the looks of the minitures, rather than being "those" nerds, measuring milimiters.

Locked due to thread necromancy