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Come on folks, we need a few more votes to ensure that "Matt Ward is my dad" moves into second place here.

 meleti wrote:
Come on folks, we need a few more votes to ensure that "Matt Ward is my dad" moves into second place here.

Alright, I wanted to vote that anyways, but since you twisted my arm, I will actually vote that now.

Not particularly.

Games Workshop's idea of 'balance' has always been horrendous, it's just they're getting the chance to show how incompetent they are with more frequency.

At least they're (barely) trying I suppose, bless their cotton socks...

 Marmatag wrote:
I would say the game is still improving. This beta change is a step back. But only because of AM's existence. Once GW figures out how to balance AM this game will be in fantastic shape.

*Soup lists.

The thing to remember with GW is that they are a model company FIRST. Publishing rules sets is a FAR AWAY second priority.

Now consider that thee "typical" GW customer gets into the hobby and remains in it for only around 18 months. Over those 18 months they spend around $800.

GWs goal, it's ONLY goal, is how to get that hobbyist who is at the end of his 18 months to stick around for another 9 months and spend another $400 before they finally get sick and toss all their models in the bin.

GW has to ask themselves "What is more likely, that someone with 1500 points of one faction will plop down their cash for more of the SAME faction, or are they more likely to start a second faction?"

The answer is the hobbyist is more likely to stick around and start a second faction PROVIDED he can play his new models and his old models TOGETHER.

This is what has lead to the "soup" army lists and the "super friends" army lists that we see today.

GW isn't changing this ANY TIME SOON because this is what is padding their bottom line.

40K jumped the shark back somewhere in 5th, when big models and fliers started coming out in droves.

Though I love those sort of models, the game has been speeding downhill since then. Thought 8th would be a swing back uphill, but it didn't last long (enough). With the recent FAQ's, it looks like we've just hit a patch of gravel.

It'll shake some folks loose and they'll abandon the game, but the cart will keep rolling on.

Fliers came in 6th and things like baneblades were apocc only in 5th.

While 5th wasn't perfect it was more fun than the last three editions.

What does jumping the shark mean?

 corpuschain wrote:
What does jumping the shark mean?

Completly loosing the plot.

And no, 40K hasn't, though I think some of it's "fans" have.

 corpuschain wrote:
What does jumping the shark mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

Wow, everyone asked for GW to respond to the customers, introduce faq's and erratas, etc. Then when they do...THE SKY IS FALLING!!! Do we really need a dozen threads like this?

 corpuschain wrote:
What does jumping the shark mean?

There was a famous American TV show called "Happy Days" which had a character called The Fonz or Fonzie or Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli if you're not into that whole brevity thing.

Anyway after five years of this show about kids and families in wholesome 50s America, they had this cool character (who was somewhat of an idealized version of "the cool kid") jump over a shark on waterskis. While wearing a leather jacket.

It was so out of character and outside what Happy Days was all about, it was seen as the turning point when something previously good became bad.

Another use might be "I'm sure Pancakey has contributed useful content before, but with this thread he has really jumped the shark"

HTH

"Jumping the Shark" is also synonymous with "Nuking the Fridge," after the infamous scene that supposedly happened in some movie claiming to be the fourth Indiana Jones movie. Such a movie thankfully does not exist.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Wow, everyone asked for GW to respond to the customers, introduce faq's and erratas, etc. Then when they do...THE SKY IS FALLING!!! Do we really need a dozen threads like this?

Nah look at the poll, most of us here think things are fine. It's just the vocal minority that are making most of the posts, the rest of us CBF arguing and are happy with the state of things (clicking on a poll is easy).

 Silentz wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:
What does jumping the shark mean?

There was a famous American TV show called "Happy Days" which had a character called The Fonz or Fonzie or Arthur Herbert Fonzarelli if you're not into that whole brevity thing.

Anyway after five years of this show about kids and families in wholesome 50s America, they had this cool character (who was somewhat of an idealized version of "the cool kid") jump over a shark on waterskis. While wearing a leather jacket.

It was so out of character and outside what Happy Days was all about, it was seen as the turning point when something previously good became bad.

Another use might be "I'm sure Pancakey has contributed useful content before, but with this thread he has really jumped the shark"

HTH

Thank you!


In response to the thread, I can see why GW might be viewed as having jumped the shark. However, if you're worried, I suggest a trip to Warhammer World (or the US café thingy when it opens). That always calms me down and reassures me. it reminds me of what this hobby is all about - COOL MINIATURES!

 MagicJuggler wrote:
"Jumping the Shark" is also synonymous with "Nuking the Fridge," after the infamous scene that supposedly happened in some movie claiming to be the fourth Indiana Jones movie. Such a movie thankfully does not exist.

A brief definition I've used before: "The moment when you realize that something you like has become something you don't".

I said somewhat because it's only beta rules, noting is official yet. I'm increasingly hoping they take a few months to just sit back, really think and release a 8.1ed.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I said somewhat because it's only beta rules, noting is official yet. I'm increasingly hoping they take a few months to just sit back, really think and release a 8.1ed.

Great idea. Let’s call it... Chapter Approved 2018?

 Silentz wrote:
Great idea. Let’s call it... Chapter Approved 2018?

Yes, but I'd like them to call it BRB.2 and it invalidates all that comes before it by collecting all the faq and errata in one place.
And I shouldn't be so salty, I play PL, this doesn't have to affect me. But I did want to start using points, and now I'm put off.

If there was a 'Jumping the Shark' moment, then certainly that was Guilliman returning?

phydaux wrote:
The thing to remember with GW is that they are a model company FIRST. Publishing rules sets is a FAR AWAY second priority.

If that's the case, why so few new models in this edition, with a number of books unaccompanied by anything new at all?

Couple with the asinine "No model, no rules" ethos (see: Deathwatch, variety of characters that can be kit-bashed, etc), they're making things harder for themselves as a model company...

phydaux wrote:
Now consider that thee "typical" GW customer gets into the hobby and remains in it for only around 18 months. Over those 18 months they spend around $800.

GWs goal, it's ONLY goal, is how to get that hobbyist who is at the end of his 18 months to stick around for another 9 months and spend another $400 before they finally get sick and toss all their models in the bin.

This is utter lunacy in a game with zero marketing that depends entirely on veteran players selling the game to their friends. If GW's "typical" customer was their only customer they'd be bankrupt in a year or three.

I voted no - they do need to sort out FAQ bloat but in general 8th Edition is great..

GW's business model is about miniatures first:

We have a simple strategy at Games Workshop. We make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever.

But the games are also important to them:

The games are a key part of both our Hobby and our business model. The more fun and enjoyable we make our games, the more customers we attract and retain, and the more miniatures our customers want to buy. This in turn allows us to reinvest in making more and more exciting miniatures and games, which creates a virtuous circle for all.

https://investor.games-workshop.com/our-business-model/

I feel they have in a way, but not in others. I think they are focusing on chasing the tail of big tournaments and letting ITC/Tournament Organizers drive too much of the direction of the game, while not considering how those choices affect everything else because, while yes balancing for competitive play should help balance everything else, it often does not.

It has been a lot of big steps in the right direction with some small steps back. Things getting overlooked like poor Grey Knights is unfortunate, but overall things keep making positive progress. GW has never been this responsive and that alone has been fantastic. GW making mistakes matters a lot less since they keep fixing things on a faster timeline. Beta rules actually work for solving problems before the official rules come into play and I wish they would do it more with things like the limit of 3. Functionally they might as well be official in most cases, but the option to change drastic problems like TS or GK smite being overnerfed is available and usually arrives in 6 months or less if its needed.

EDIT: Post deleted.

 Crimson wrote:
If there was a 'Jumping the Shark' moment, then certainly that was Guilliman returning?

Nah, players wanted him and they moved the story a bit, its normal progress.

They jumped the shark back at the end of 5th when they introduced flyers (terrible end to a perfectly good edition). The AoS General's Handbook and 8th Edition 40k have been GW slowly climbing their way out of that pit. Unfortunately, the climb is uncomfortable, awkward, and filled with a bunch of poor decisions. They're getting better, and they'll get there hopefully, but it's going to have some undesirable moments. 40k has basically entered puberty.

I'm happy that GW is taking an active stance to balancing the game, but kicking everything that relies on deepstriking in the nuts while it was only several outliers that needed adjustments feels really bad.

They did not even manage to jump the shark, it ate them and then that shark jumped another shark.

Then it swam across to AoS to join the fishman army over there as a mount, who says GW don't do irony.

 Peregrine wrote:

phydaux wrote:
Now consider that thee "typical" GW customer gets into the hobby and remains in it for only around 18 months. Over those 18 months they spend around $800.

GWs goal, it's ONLY goal, is how to get that hobbyist who is at the end of his 18 months to stick around for another 9 months and spend another $400 before they finally get sick and toss all their models in the bin.

This is utter lunacy in a game with zero marketing that depends entirely on veteran players selling the game to their friends. If GW's "typical" customer was their only customer they'd be bankrupt in a year or three.

For every long term hobbyist there are five casuals who play for a few months and then give up.

And a "long term hobbyist" if often the kid who picks GW up in middle school, plays through high school, and drops it like a hot rock when he finds out how easy collage girls are.