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 Formosa wrote:

pm713 wrote:
That's not how it is at all. Magnus broke the Webway wards. Someone needs to be on the Throne to stop demons pouring out. The Throne itself is broken because nobody understands it and it's been maintained by people whose engineering knowledge is equal to mine for 10'000 years. The souls power the Astronomicon.

Ok master of mankind raises a few questions about this old fluff, when he enters the web way he has the throne powered to keep the portal open by psykers in much the same manner as he is fed psykers, so is it the current imperium THINKS it’s to save the emperor but it actually powers the throne that is keeping the portal open so the emp must keep it closed or is it that the psykers are actually keeping the emperor alive??

Also at the end of that book the gate was firmly closed, so are the Deamons slowly wearing down the protection and it needs to be “topped up” every now and then....


That stupid book really screwed with the fluff in a non sensical way!

I hoenstly wonder if it was done to add some confusion to the matter. we now have a very legit question of "is the emperor even actually ALIVE?"

You need to define alive for that discussion really. His body is just about alive for the time being and his soul is pretty much fine as far as I know.

 Orlanth wrote:
Dark elves had the same dynamics.

There were whole dynasties of Phoenix kings, yet the same Malekith who contested Bal Shanaar's scension was still around in the End Times.

Hellebron and Morathi were also of that age bracket give or take a few centuries.

Of the Asur only Alith Anar had any staying power. There must have been something in the water in Naggarythe, as the Naggarothi had lifespans several times that of other elves, who do grow old in their own way.

GW gives a longevity pass to its recurring villains. They outlive anyone.

All three of the dark elves listed are special cases with explanations. Malekith has to basically wear a life support suit to stay alive (as a result of the burns suffered during his self-immolation). Morathi uses the original Cauldron of Blood to maintain her youth. And Hellebron is using an inferior cauldron that only temporarily grants her youth. When the effect from the cauldron wears off, Hellebron rapidly ages. And the fluff notes that her youth is lasting for less and less time after each bath.

There are one or two other dark elves that have been around for a *long* time and don't have their apparent immortality explained (iirc, Hotek's been alive the entire time), but the means is likely something just as vile as the cauldron of blood.



On the Chaos Marines front...

There was a bit of fluff in one of the old Epic releases quite a while back about a Chaos Space Marine who'd fought during the Heresy, and lived so long that he had to periodically "edit" his memories by removing old memories that he no longer cared to remember. The implication was that he had to do that because he had lived so long that if he didn't, he'd have difficulty remembering more recent events. Removing the old memories allowed him to make room for new ones.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Abaddon and other Chaos Marines(Veterans if the Long War) have been fighting for thousands of years. Now there is some stuff with the Warp manipulating time, but considering how many times Abaddon or warbands have been terrorizing the Galaxy it doesn’t seem logical for their not to be Space Marine Long War vets.

The only ones who exist are in dreadnoughts. And some might say Space Marines are constantly at war so it would make sense for them to have died, but Chaos Space Marines do the same, don’t they?

Why are the heroes of the Horus Heresy mostly dead?

First of all they live in the eye of terror, so time has no concept, they aren't 10,000 years old, they can be 1 day past the scouring or a million years old. They also have mutation due to the eye and to boons from the gods, that can stave off aging. Take the case of the 13th company of space wolves, they entered the eye during the burning of Prospero and when Njal and Bjorn led a force to get them, for the 13th company they thought they had only been fighting in the eye for a week.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Abaddon and other Chaos Marines(Veterans if the Long War) have been fighting for thousands of years. Now there is some stuff with the Warp manipulating time, but considering how many times Abaddon or warbands have been terrorizing the Galaxy it doesn’t seem logical for their not to be Space Marine Long War vets.

The only ones who exist are in dreadnoughts. And some might say Space Marines are constantly at war so it would make sense for them to have died, but Chaos Space Marines do the same, don’t they?

Why are the heroes of the Horus Heresy mostly dead?

First of all they live in the eye of terror, so time has no concept, they aren't 10,000 years old, they can be 1 day past the scouring or a million years old. They also have mutation due to the eye and to boons from the gods, that can stave off aging. Take the case of the 13th company of space wolves, they entered the eye during the burning of Prospero and when Njal and Bjorn led a force to get them, for the 13th company they thought they had only been fighting in the eye for a week.

That's not canon anymore. Njal got a bunch of the 13th back from a weird mini webway on Prospero. Bjorn wasn't involved.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Abaddon and other Chaos Marines(Veterans if the Long War) have been fighting for thousands of years. Now there is some stuff with the Warp manipulating time, but considering how many times Abaddon or warbands have been terrorizing the Galaxy it doesn’t seem logical for their not to be Space Marine Long War vets.

The only ones who exist are in dreadnoughts. And some might say Space Marines are constantly at war so it would make sense for them to have died, but Chaos Space Marines do the same, don’t they?

Why are the heroes of the Horus Heresy mostly dead?

First of all they live in the eye of terror, so time has no concept, they aren't 10,000 years old, they can be 1 day past the scouring or a million years old. They also have mutation due to the eye and to boons from the gods, that can stave off aging. Take the case of the 13th company of space wolves, they entered the eye during the burning of Prospero and when Njal and Bjorn led a force to get them, for the 13th company they thought they had only been fighting in the eye for a week.

That's not canon anymore. Njal got a bunch of the 13th back from a weird mini webway on Prospero. Bjorn wasn't involved.

Its a book that was released a few months ago, its still cannon and Bjorn was involved, he initially said no to going but before they left he changed his mind. Yeah I said eye of terror so that people knew, it was a labyrinth but the time flux is still the same as the eye. There was no lore of Njal saving the 13th before this.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Abaddon and other Chaos Marines(Veterans if the Long War) have been fighting for thousands of years. Now there is some stuff with the Warp manipulating time, but considering how many times Abaddon or warbands have been terrorizing the Galaxy it doesn’t seem logical for their not to be Space Marine Long War vets.

The only ones who exist are in dreadnoughts. And some might say Space Marines are constantly at war so it would make sense for them to have died, but Chaos Space Marines do the same, don’t they?

Why are the heroes of the Horus Heresy mostly dead?

First of all they live in the eye of terror, so time has no concept, they aren't 10,000 years old, they can be 1 day past the scouring or a million years old. They also have mutation due to the eye and to boons from the gods, that can stave off aging. Take the case of the 13th company of space wolves, they entered the eye during the burning of Prospero and when Njal and Bjorn led a force to get them, for the 13th company they thought they had only been fighting in the eye for a week.

That's not canon anymore. Njal got a bunch of the 13th back from a weird mini webway on Prospero. Bjorn wasn't involved.

Its a book that was released a few months ago, its still cannon and Bjorn was involved, he initially said no to going but before they left he changed his mind. Yeah I said eye of terror so that people knew, it was a labyrinth but the time flux is still the same as the eye. There was no lore of Njal saving the 13th before this.

So I just remembered everything wrong then. Oh dear. Sorry about that.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Abaddon and other Chaos Marines(Veterans if the Long War) have been fighting for thousands of years. Now there is some stuff with the Warp manipulating time, but considering how many times Abaddon or warbands have been terrorizing the Galaxy it doesn’t seem logical for their not to be Space Marine Long War vets.

The only ones who exist are in dreadnoughts. And some might say Space Marines are constantly at war so it would make sense for them to have died, but Chaos Space Marines do the same, don’t they?

Why are the heroes of the Horus Heresy mostly dead?

First of all they live in the eye of terror, so time has no concept, they aren't 10,000 years old, they can be 1 day past the scouring or a million years old. They also have mutation due to the eye and to boons from the gods, that can stave off aging. Take the case of the 13th company of space wolves, they entered the eye during the burning of Prospero and when Njal and Bjorn led a force to get them, for the 13th company they thought they had only been fighting in the eye for a week.

That's not canon anymore. Njal got a bunch of the 13th back from a weird mini webway on Prospero. Bjorn wasn't involved.

Its a book that was released a few months ago, its still cannon and Bjorn was involved, he initially said no to going but before they left he changed his mind. Yeah I said eye of terror so that people knew, it was a labyrinth but the time flux is still the same as the eye. There was no lore of Njal saving the 13th before this.

So I just remembered everything wrong then. Oh dear. Sorry about that.

No problem.

There's also the lowering quality of geneseed and scientific understanding to factor in too. I think it's in the Fulgrim novel in the heresy series, there's a discussion that mentions astartes lifespan being unknown during the Great Crusade but that they believed themselves to be functionally immortal.

Obviously not hard fact but, like the references to gigantism of the face in astartes as a nod to the models, it's a potential excuse for those that want it.

Unslain wrote:
There's also the lowering quality of geneseed and scientific understanding to factor in too. I think it's in the Fulgrim novel in the heresy series, there's a discussion that mentions astartes lifespan being unknown during the Great Crusade but that they believed themselves to be functionally immortal.

Obviously not hard fact but, like the references to gigantism of the face in astartes as a nod to the models, it's a potential excuse for those that want it.

Well Dante is still going strong, though that's only 1000 years. The custodes however have a much longer shelf life, so I don't think Astartes are functionally immortal because if they were they'd just have the same life span as the custodes.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Unslain wrote:
There's also the lowering quality of geneseed and scientific understanding to factor in too. I think it's in the Fulgrim novel in the heresy series, there's a discussion that mentions astartes lifespan being unknown during the Great Crusade but that they believed themselves to be functionally immortal.

Obviously not hard fact but, like the references to gigantism of the face in astartes as a nod to the models, it's a potential excuse for those that want it.

Well Dante is still going strong, though that's only 1000 years. The custodes however have a much longer shelf life, so I don't think Astartes are functionally immortal because if they were they'd just have the same life span as the custodes.

I don't think in EAITHER custodes or Space marines cases a bilogical end of life has been detirmined. they tend to die in combat first. their jobs are kiiinda dangerous

Ok so space marines are not functionally immortal, we have had several examples now to show this.

Warsmith dantioch and the H’rud migration: if you read primarchs peturabo and see the effects that they have on the space marines, it’s quite clear that marines are not functionally immortal, through aging several astartes start to have organ failure amongst other things, dantioch estimates that the aging effect is roughly 2000 years.

Phosis tkar crimson king: phosis tkar is an expert on astartes anaotomy right down to the molecular level and knows that marines are not functionally immortal and states as much to himself.

Dante: Dante is not fine, he is slowing down, he admits this to himself.

Sigismund: again age slowed him down, he was roughly 1200 (estimate) by this point, abbadon comments that age has not made him weak, it’s just brought him down to his level.

Whilst I used to believe that they were functionally immortal, the more the concept has been fleshed out the clearer it has become that they are not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigismund: ref Black legion.

 Formosa wrote:
Ok so space marines are not functionally immortal, we have had several examples now to show this.

Warsmith dantioch and the H’rud migration: if you read primarchs peturabo and see the effects that they have on the space marines, it’s quite clear that marines are not functionally immortal, through aging several astartes start to have organ failure amongst other things, dantioch estimates that the aging effect is roughly 2000 years.

Phosis tkar crimson king: phosis tkar is an expert on astartes anaotomy right down to the molecular level and knows that marines are not functionally immortal and states as much to himself.

Dante: Dante is not fine, he is slowing down, he admits this to himself.

Sigismund: again age slowed him down, he was roughly 1200 (estimate) by this point, abbadon comments that age has not made him weak, it’s just brought him down to his level.

Whilst I used to believe that they were functionally immortal, the more the concept has been fleshed out the clearer it has become that they are not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigismund: ref Black legion.

yeah, it's clear they cna and do age, my point is we don't know eneugh to say what their lifespan is.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Ok so space marines are not functionally immortal, we have had several examples now to show this.

Warsmith dantioch and the H’rud migration: if you read primarchs peturabo and see the effects that they have on the space marines, it’s quite clear that marines are not functionally immortal, through aging several astartes start to have organ failure amongst other things, dantioch estimates that the aging effect is roughly 2000 years.

Phosis tkar crimson king: phosis tkar is an expert on astartes anaotomy right down to the molecular level and knows that marines are not functionally immortal and states as much to himself.

Dante: Dante is not fine, he is slowing down, he admits this to himself.

Sigismund: again age slowed him down, he was roughly 1200 (estimate) by this point, abbadon comments that age has not made him weak, it’s just brought him down to his level.

Whilst I used to believe that they were functionally immortal, the more the concept has been fleshed out the clearer it has become that they are not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigismund: ref Black legion.

yeah, it's clear they cna and do age, my point is we don't know eneugh to say what their lifespan is.

Yep I agree Brian, my best guesstimate is it’s likely around 2-3000 years with All the usual variation that standard humans have, so some longer, some shorter depending on usual human genetics and lifespan.

 Formosa wrote:


Sigismund: again age slowed him down, he was roughly 1200 (estimate) by this point, abbadon comments that age has not made him weak, it’s just brought him down to his level. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigismund: ref Black legion.

Nearly shat myself when I read that fight. Some of the best material BL has put out about Chaos Marines in a while, HH included.

No citations, but the Custodes Codex refers to SM longevity as well, and Arihman series when he recalls his time in hiding -- as a line legionary no less. I wonder how many "heros" of the HH had to go into hiding as well to survive the infighting and such.

Can someone share where the golden throne stuff came from, bookwise? I've been reading the recent HH novels off and on, but skipped most of the short stories and anthologies, not paying for 90% content I've already purchased and all.

Heybiff