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How on earth are you getting that close? I guess telepotarium now. But that means no wotda.

HB have effective range 36”.

But single shots won't cut it vs a shadow sword. Even 10 of them. You need double tap range vs hard targets.

As mentioned - works best in dark angels with azreal - just walk them right up the table and get into rapid fire range ASAP.

In my full primaris army I run with Guilliman - these guys really do a lot of damage - but people don't let them live for long and they drop like flies with practically every weapon doing multiple damage these days.

use Tigarus to make them -1 to hit and Use relic banner to shot back on a 3+ and reroll hits and wounds and when you are dead you don't care about the overcharge anyways. It's the closest thing to synergy the space marine codex has. It is really reliant on your opponent having a bad army though as dropping primaris marines is laughable easy.

For SNG's I run 20 hellbalsters in 2 repulsors with guilliman and some intercessors running up the table. If they are a gun line you lose - if they want to get close to you - you will win with relative ease.

That’s why you deploy out of line of sight. I beat an IG army with three Shadowswords. They aren’t doing anything if they can’t shoot you.

Okay, I'll take that at face value. What do you do vs triple basilisk/triple manticore?

Hellblasters are a fantastic concept, imo. They just really lack the crunch to back it up.

Indirect ordnance/artillery is not popular in my local meta because there are other armies that can easily take them out. TBH I don't think AM is that competitive right now in general other than being taken as allied CP farm.

They aren't only because time limits. Withno time limits, IG are brutal.

Slow play is pretty much frowned upon and has been for a long time.

I don't know if its slow play as much as 3 hrs just isn't enough time for the ig to grind up opponents sufficiently. It's a real downside for ig that they roll tons of dice in this format.


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Also, asshats like drukhari having invuln everywhere hurts these guys, too. They are better anti-imperial than anti-xeno.

A lot of times an armor save is better than a craptastic invulnerable save plus there are things like Death Hex which just kills them dead.

I'm not sure how cost effective death hex is vs an 80 pt raider. Death hex is great vs deathstars, not as much vs cheap invuln spam. At least these guys work well vs quantum shields.

I've ran these guys with the fnp banner for ba, and corbulo, but they never quite cause enough damage.

It’s great versus the Dark Eldar Tantalus.

None of my opponents have one. They just spam cheap stuff.

It’s very competitive - I understand.

Everything in that book is competitive.

Maybe you should play DE.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't know if its slow play as much as 3 hrs just isn't enough time for the ig to grind up opponents sufficiently. It's a real downside for ig that they roll tons of dice in this format.


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Also, asshats like drukhari having invuln everywhere hurts these guys, too. They are better anti-imperial than anti-xeno.

Just inv save itself is not scary, assault or RF hellblastets "have" the number of shots that can ensure eventually goes through. It is the inv save plus 8th edition version invisibility, i.e. the cumulative -1 to hit that makes thing sick. This feature is army wide for Dark Eldar and Harlequins.

Martel732 wrote:
How on earth are you getting that close? I guess telepotarium now. But that means no wotda.

My Dark Angels Hellblasters have certainly taken down Shadowswords etc in single rounds of shooting. I run full units of ten with Azrael. It helps to roll well with the 4++ saves if I don't get the first shot, but it's happened multiple times in tourney settings.

It's targets with invuls and negative to hit modifiers that make my Hellblasters sad...

Don't forget that Dark Angels can further increase the survivability of Hellblasters by taking a Ravenwing Darkshroud for a -1 to hit. At the very least, your opponents will be forced to deal with the Darkshroud first, which takes some of the heat off your Hellblasters.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Bravo, now you kill yourself on 1 2 and 3s to hit!!!!!

That's not how it works.

"On a hit roll of 1 the bearer is slain..."

Plasma/Tau overcharging isn't like tesla/taser weapons, which work on a 6+. If they were, they would be worded "On a hit roll of 1 or less the bearer is slain..."

Wait, what?

I've always understood that if the target has a -1 to hit modifier your overcharged plasma explodes on rolls of 1 AND 2.

Where does it state that does plasma negates the fact that to hit modifiers apply doesn't after the roll?

Also I've played that if you can reroll all misses I can't reroll a hit roll of 3 with BS3 when the target has a -1 to hit modifier?

Have I've been playing it all wrong?

Xirax wrote:
Wait, what?

I've always understood that if the target has a -1 to hit modifier your overcharged plasma explodes on rolls of 1 AND 2.

Where does it state that does plasma negates the fact that to hit modifiers apply doesn't after the roll?

Also I've played that if you can reroll all misses I can't reroll a hit roll of 3 with BS3 when the target has a -1 to hit modifier?

Have I've been playing it all wrong?

IIRC thats how it works, the other guys wrong. but I might eb misremembering IIRC GW clarified this awhile back.

course if you have a -2 to your to hits just don't over charge unless it's worth the risk.

Modified 1's kill you to. This was clarified in some faq or something.

If you are really worried about negative modifiers then plasma Inceptors are really good each one firing 2d3 shots. I run a five man squad - they are vicious and can pump out enough shots it is not always necessary to super charge.

Non-overcharged plasma is primarily effective vs elite infantry with one wound. Against most other targets, overcharge is absolutely necessary.

Martel732 wrote:
Non-overcharged plasma is primarily effective vs elite infantry with one wound. Against most other targets, overcharge is absolutely necessary.

depends what you need it to do, sometimes it's too risky to over charge but the plasma is still handy.

It should be only modified 1s that explode.

With a -1 to hit, a roll of 2 explodes because it is now 1. A roll of 1 should not explode because it is a 0, and it doesn't say 1- nor "1 or less". The precedent of + hit rolls and Tesla or Taser attacks in Necrons and Ad Mech follow this logic, as they say they generate extra hits on 6+.

It also makes zero sense that shooting at night or at someone hard to see causes your weapon to malfunction more often.

By the plain text rule itself and by precedent, that is how it should work.

If there is a FAQ that says otherwise, I haven't seen it but it could exist.

Skhmt wrote:
It should be only modified 1s that explode.

With a -1 to hit, a roll of 2 explodes because it is now 1. A roll of 1 should not explode because it is a 0, and it doesn't say 1- nor "1 or less". The precedent of + hit rolls and Tesla or Taser attacks in Necrons and Ad Mech follow this logic, as they say they generate extra hits on 6+.

It also makes zero sense that shooting at night or at someone hard to see causes your weapon to malfunction more often.

By the plain text rule itself and by precedent, that is how it should work.

If there is a FAQ that says otherwise, I haven't seen it but it could exist.

You are so wrong. A Hit roll can never be less than 1. Even if it's 0 or -1 with modifiers it still counts as a 1. This is in the designers commentary or stepping into a new edition. This was released a long time ago. Read the FAQs.
It makes no sense that plasma explodes more often at night, but that's how it is.

Can you quote the relevant errata please?