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Just an update, the same guy is now paying me £22 to paint a 10 man tactical squad, guess I must be doing something right!

Make sure to note how much time you spend, and no "cheating". Figure out what you're making for the time spent.

ShadowPug wrote:
Just an update, the same guy is now paying me £22 to paint a 10 man tactical squad, guess I must be doing something right!

So now you are getting less per model, and you think this is a win?

 Peregrine wrote:

ShadowPug wrote:
Just an update, the same guy is now paying me £22 to paint a 10 man tactical squad, guess I must be doing something right!

So now you are getting less per model, and you think this is a win?

Well you wouldn't charge the same to pant an Ork Boy as an Imperial Knight.

ShadowPug wrote:
Well you wouldn't charge the same to pant an Ork Boy as an Imperial Knight.

No, because those two models are very different sizes. A tactical marine is roughly the same size as a terminator, and will take roughly the same amount of time. But now you're making much less per model, after accepting a pathetically low payment for the first one. At this point you'd be better off picking up some hours at your local fast food restaurant, you'd make considerably more money for your time.

If you charged him £35 then you are charging the RRP of the box. Which is a far more palatable prospect than getting only 22. You are being paid 2.20 per model, and you will probably be spending at least £1 per model in paint/undercoat/brush wear. Do you really think your time is worth £1.20?

Most people will charge the RRP plus 50%, so in this case about £50. £5 per model. Again assuming £1 per model in paint/undercoat/brush wear, you would be earning £4 per model. If you can knock out the full set of marines in about 5 hours of painting, you will earn about £8 per hour, close to minimum wage for your time.

I am not saying try to match up to Perigrines £35k a year that you absolutely must have, or the £440 per marine that he is quoting. But even if you are only doing this sort of thing in the evening to get some beer tokens then you at least want reasonable compensation.

You friend is paying you £22 for 10 models because it is stupidly cheap. As I have already shown to you in my calculations above, most other people will have charged him a lot lot more.

Garrior is right, that's an incredibly low return on your time and effort.

OP, it's clear you have an interest in commission painting. Treat this as an opportunity to learn and improve your skills. Talk to other commission painters, maybe thru DM and learn more about what's involved. You should be seeking a mentor willing to provide some encouragement.

You might not get that kind of advice through a public forum topic.

The thing is his painting/modeling skill isn’t there yet to yield a minimum wage return, if you don’t have much models to paint, what better way to get good at modeling/painting than working on someone else’s models.

 Big Mac wrote:
The thing is his painting/modeling skill isn’t there yet to yield a minimum wage return, if you don’t have much models to paint, what better way to get good at modeling/painting than working on someone else’s models.

I appreciate that mate. But even gaining experience, the equivalent of 1.20 per model is very low. Minimum wage is more likely for those with more time and more skill. But you shouldn't be taken for a ride either.

In a completely non devious, money grubbing manner way, the answer to your question is "As much as you can get away with."

Your market will largely depend on you, presentation of past works, and how wide sweeping it is. At that point, you establish your potential return and use that rate with every painting inquiry.

Basically, when you start out you have to try different kinds of fishing bait. Cast your line and see if you get any bites. Then apply the adage of 'If you have too much work, you're not charging enough' and dial in your effective price.

Eventually, you HAVE to charge enough to meet the point where you look forward to spending that time because its a solid earner, otherwise dont bother and commit to finding a revenue stream elsewhere and paint for fun (or beer, or whatever makes it rewarding to you)

Hey, if you're happy painting, and your friend is happy with the work, then I'd say this is great. This time around, I'd seriously measure out your time and cost in materials, and figure out whether your enjoyment + his pay = your investment. If not, then be honest with your friend about how much time it takes you, and ask for a bump.

I personally like painting, so I wouldn't view it as a money-making gambit. I'd view it as making a little extra cash doing something I like, that I can turn around and spend on my own stuff. If you want to make money off of it, then a lot of the other responses here are right - you're going to have to charge more to make it worth your while.

Maybe it is charging a bit low £22 for 10 models, which is about £0.73 and hour if I do it at a good pace, but I don't think I could get much more than that, i'm a teenager who legally can't get a real job yet, everyone I know are teenagers who can't get real jobs yet, and if I painted for someone over the internet they would probably hire a better/faster painter XD, and £22 is more than my monthly pocket money so it does feel like a lot to me, but I'm guessing that's just different live perspectives.
I know he knows some people who plays Warhammer and seemed super impressed by the first model I did for him, I could as him to suggest me if anyone he knows is wanting someone to paint their models? (Doubt that would give me any business, but it's better than nothing).
I doubt it costs £1 of supplies to paint a model, while brushes die faster than I would expect, I find my paint lasts a while, unless it's shade i've spilt or Mephiston Red just getting clumpy all the time, this will be even less now I have made a wet pallette.
Maybe I will eventually be more serious about commission painting, maybe I won't, i'll just see how it goes, i'll measure how much time it takes to do everything and compare it for some perspective, but thank you all so much for your comments! Very enlightening! I also love how friendly people on here are, very nice!

ShadowPug wrote:
Maybe it is charging a bit low £22 for 10 models, which is about £0.73 and hour if I do it at a good pace, but I don't think I could get much more than that, i'm a teenager who legally can't get a real job yet, everyone I know are teenagers who can't get real jobs yet, and if I painted for someone over the internet they would probably hire a better/faster painter XD, and £22 is more than my monthly pocket money so it does feel like a lot to me, but I'm guessing that's just different live perspectives.
I know he knows some people who plays Warhammer and seemed super impressed by the first model I did for him, I could as him to suggest me if anyone he knows is wanting someone to paint their models? (Doubt that would give me any business, but it's better than nothing).
I doubt it costs £1 of supplies to paint a model, while brushes die faster than I would expect, I find my paint lasts a while, unless it's shade i've spilt or Mephiston Red just getting clumpy all the time, this will be even less now I have made a wet pallette.
Maybe I will eventually be more serious about commission painting, maybe I won't, i'll just see how it goes, i'll measure how much time it takes to do everything and compare it for some perspective, but thank you all so much for your comments! Very enlightening! I also love how friendly people on here are, very nice!

This does put a different perspective on it. I assume that most of us commenting on this are adults with 'real' jobs, which is why we treat it as such. If I'm paid £X per hour going to work, then I wouldn't give away any of my valuable free time at a lower rate. I'd rather spend that time painting my own models, seeing friends or indulging other hobbies.

But as a young'un with presumably plenty of free time, and for whom this is a nice amount of money, then cool, go for it! In the grand scheme of things you don't spend a huge amount on painting supplies per model, but it is still a consideration, especially if you need to get some new paints which you don't have yet. Given the relatively low prices you're getting at the minute, a few new pots can quickly take chunks out of your profit, so I'd still recommend considering your supplies when agreeing a price. If I was you I'd see if you can speed up your painting to get better value for money out of it, either faster for the same standard, or a higher standard in the same time. If commission painting is something that you want to keep up as you get older, you'll certainly want to move towards making more profit out of it than you are at the moment. But then this might just be a side earner until you get a better source of income - just take it as it goes.

As for friendly people, I think this is one of the least argumentative subforums! (Preparing to be proved wrong in 3, 2, 1....)

 Bellerophon wrote:
It depends on your attitude to this. If you look at it from a hobby perspective of "I just want to paint minis and it's extra cool if somebody pays me for it", you'll come up with a different answer than if you treat it more like a business decision and want to be properly compensated for your time.

If it's the former, charge whatever you'd be happy to receive and you think the other party will pay.

For the latter, try to estimate how long any particular paintjob will take you and set yourself what you consider to be a fair hourly rate for your time. Calculate the charge by rate times hours, plus an allowance for overheads and consumables (i.e. brushes and paints). If you do it this way you may find the price looks quite high, higher than buying the models in the first place. But really it shouldn't be a surprise. After all, what should be cheaper, buying a mass-produced model kit that's churned out by the thousand, or paying somebody for several hours of their time?

You don't think £5 was worth it because you're purely looking at it from the perspective of the quality of the painting. The person you did it for might look at it the same way, or they might not be bothered about how good it looks. Perhaps they just wanted to pay £5 so that they didn't have to spend the time painting it themselves, in which case they could say they got a bargain.

I agree with this. Consider you have a lot to learn on painting mini and they are paying you to improve on your paintings without you having to buy expensive minis. I believe it is a winner/winner deal and you should be very content with it.

Well, as they always say, context is everything.

This thread probably would have been a lot shorter had you let us all know at the beginning that you were doing this for pocket money! As Ballerophon said, most of us are adults who have a life, family, costs etc etc. Whereas teenagers are basically parasitic lifeforms with spare time to paint lots of models!

I assume your client is also a teenager? In which case he might not have too much money to spare to pay you regardless. If you can eventually squeeze him up to paying the RRP for a box of mini's, it will keep you in models and paint yourself. If you can reach out through your friend to get more people interested in your painting, then so much so the better and it costs you nothing. Also, more experience is always a good thing.

Finally, dont underestimate how much it costs to paint a model. Ok, you dont have to take into account your electricity bills, food etc but paint quickly adds up, especially if you are painting a lot more than you normally would. Always have this in the back of your mind, and using a rough £1 per model of cost will give you an idea of how much you are making as profit.

This is the nicest forum by far. As people use it for advice and critiques, everything is done on the level. I might have a different idea for how something should be done to someone else, but there is no need to get nasty as what we are essentially discussing is art and artistic techniques, and there are always more ways to skin a cat (N.B Dont actually skin a cat or try to figure out how many ways there are. A) the cats dont like it and they have claws and B) the police dont like it either!)

To save anyone the hassle, there are 4 ways to skin a cat. From Least to Most preferential...

Undead Cat: Least desired, likely costs you your soul, most distressing to the children.

Live Cat: Like an undead cat, good chance this will cost you your soul. Lower chance of contracting disease, can be mastered without the dark arts. Messy, likely to result in claw-related injuries.

Dead Cat: Probably won't cost your soul, presuming death by natural causes. Best if performed on a fresh corpse. Very low chance of claw related injury.

Schroedinger's Cat: Place the Cat inside a box. The Cat may be considered both skinned and unskinned. Least amount of clean up. Least distressing to the children. Least amount of effort required. Does not require replacement cats.

For me its simple.."20 bucks a model if its a normal sized figure to the same or better standards as my armies are, and you supply any paint pots that i dont own or use up." Im casual though.. only paint for family, or people that sit at one of my gaming tables and all of which that have asked have looked through my figures before asking me.

For pay ive painted 40 necron warriors, 52 blood angels, 47 guardsmen, 20 dark angel tacticals and a couple dozen dnd/pathfinder/starwars figures...

If you are doing it for a friend and for fun I think your price is good. Just make sure you don't promise to paint a whole army. I did that when I was a teen for a friend because I loved to paint. Or so I thought. I loved to paint single miniatures and not squads with the same miniatures over and over again. I struggled to finish it but did it in the end.
I learned from then on to never paint for such a low amount of money again, it was even a lot lower then you got.

I still have painted figures as gifts but if I would batch paint for money again it better be for a lot more money because that aint fun to me lol.