40k film?

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**BrianDavion**

HH is a lousy p[lace to start 40k IMHO. you're better off focusing on present day 40k, and introducing the setting and key elements first.

**Bobthehero**

Yeah, its Warhammer 40k, not 30k

**BrianDavion**

Bobthehero wrote:
Yeah, its Warhammer 40k, not 30k

more to the point the heresy is a huuge interlocking story, you want your first movie to be stand alone so that if a sequal never gets made it's at least a solid cult classic.

**Banville**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Banville wrote:
My point is, people who play 40k will obviously be okay with a space marine or even an Eldar protagonist. For a movie or series to be commissioned or optioned you'd need to aim for a wider demographic and make it accessible to the general non-gaming public.

When you boil it down, Astartes are genocidal killing machines. With the noted exception of the Salamanders, who believe burning people to death is still, somehow, okay. They also, and this is important, see the world differently to us. They ignore most wounds. THEY KNOW NO FEAR. They're hard to connect with from a movie audience perspective. You can't afford to get into the amount of exposition you can get away with in print when working with film.

So, you'll end up softening and humanising our hypothetical Astartes protagonist and having fans of the game disowning the whole project for removing the grimdark.

Now, a series based on Caiaphus Cain, arch, self-aware and cynical, that might work.

I don't agree, when film companies make re-makes of things, they always fail unless they stay true to the actual original. Its like with superhero films or anime films like ghost in the shell, they are always terrible because instead of staying true to what works and what people already love, production companies instead alter the original thing that worked to try and appease a wider demographic. I mean the fans alone would would bring in a return on the project. So if you are doing an Imperium faction focus it would be silly to miss out SM on that basis. I mean in GW space marines sell, they always get the most focus and push.

except that 40k fans alone are not eneugh to sell a 40k movie, a 40k movie would (especially if it invovled space marines) by necessity need to have a HUUUGE bugdet for special effects. This BTW is why I proposed a Eisenhorn based netflix series. they could mostly keep it down low, but the finalle of the first season would be the end of Xenos, a reasonably big conflict that would have space Marines.

I think we'd all be surprised, our fanbase is enough to keep GW it going. Its safe to say every fan will see it. GW make 100 million in sales in 6 months. Just the GW fan-base, say there are 1million of us buying a ticket for the cinema is 10 million in cinema tickets, DVD's would sell more than that, that's 20 millions there and that's being conservative, plus technology has come leaps and bounds, look at the Inquisitor film and that is just a fan made film. They could do a budget for 20 million as a minumum, which they could do but even at 50 million I think they'd make a fantastic return, then there would be all the sci-fi and geek fans, they'll run to see it and then you'll have regular public. If they made the film amazing, I think they'd do very well. I mean netflix could even do it. I mean we can't know what it'll sell bit we do know there are guaranteed sales and production companies now salavate when they here that, WOW, superhero films, anime etc. They are even making a battle angel alita film and that is an obscure manga in the west. Now with the profits GW rake in I wouldn't be surprised if a production company stuck its nose into 40k, plus the Ultramarine film was a failure not because of the fan base, it was a failure as it was terribly made. I just wish peter jackson would get off his fat ass and make a series of 40k or HH films, he is a fan.

Sorry, dude. I've some experience in writing stuff. You're talking 150 million US Dollars for anything that looks in any way epic plus, and I reiterate, plus, another at least 100 million in marketing. And that's at the lower scale of epic Sci fi.

**BrianDavion**

Banville wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Banville wrote:
My point is, people who play 40k will obviously be okay with a space marine or even an Eldar protagonist. For a movie or series to be commissioned or optioned you'd need to aim for a wider demographic and make it accessible to the general non-gaming public.

When you boil it down, Astartes are genocidal killing machines. With the noted exception of the Salamanders, who believe burning people to death is still, somehow, okay. They also, and this is important, see the world differently to us. They ignore most wounds. THEY KNOW NO FEAR. They're hard to connect with from a movie audience perspective. You can't afford to get into the amount of exposition you can get away with in print when working with film.

So, you'll end up softening and humanising our hypothetical Astartes protagonist and having fans of the game disowning the whole project for removing the grimdark.

Now, a series based on Caiaphus Cain, arch, self-aware and cynical, that might work.

I don't agree, when film companies make re-makes of things, they always fail unless they stay true to the actual original. Its like with superhero films or anime films like ghost in the shell, they are always terrible because instead of staying true to what works and what people already love, production companies instead alter the original thing that worked to try and appease a wider demographic. I mean the fans alone would would bring in a return on the project. So if you are doing an Imperium faction focus it would be silly to miss out SM on that basis. I mean in GW space marines sell, they always get the most focus and push.

except that 40k fans alone are not eneugh to sell a 40k movie, a 40k movie would (especially if it invovled space marines) by necessity need to have a HUUUGE bugdet for special effects. This BTW is why I proposed a Eisenhorn based netflix series. they could mostly keep it down low, but the finalle of the first season would be the end of Xenos, a reasonably big conflict that would have space Marines.

I think we'd all be surprised, our fanbase is enough to keep GW it going. Its safe to say every fan will see it. GW make 100 million in sales in 6 months. Just the GW fan-base, say there are 1million of us buying a ticket for the cinema is 10 million in cinema tickets, DVD's would sell more than that, that's 20 millions there and that's being conservative, plus technology has come leaps and bounds, look at the Inquisitor film and that is just a fan made film. They could do a budget for 20 million as a minumum, which they could do but even at 50 million I think they'd make a fantastic return, then there would be all the sci-fi and geek fans, they'll run to see it and then you'll have regular public. If they made the film amazing, I think they'd do very well. I mean netflix could even do it. I mean we can't know what it'll sell bit we do know there are guaranteed sales and production companies now salavate when they here that, WOW, superhero films, anime etc. They are even making a battle angel alita film and that is an obscure manga in the west. Now with the profits GW rake in I wouldn't be surprised if a production company stuck its nose into 40k, plus the Ultramarine film was a failure not because of the fan base, it was a failure as it was terribly made. I just wish peter jackson would get off his fat ass and make a series of 40k or HH films, he is a fan.

Sorry, dude. I've some experience in writing stuff. You're talking 150 million US Dollars for anything that looks in any way epic plus, and I reiterate, plus, another at least 100 million in marketing. And that's at the lower scale of epic Sci fi.

yeah 20 million is "cheap budget slasher flick" territory.

**Grimtuff**

And my prophecy has nearly been fulfilled already....

Only 2 or 3 more squares to go on this thread's bingo card Dakka. Still gotta hit the "GW will never give up merchandising rights" and "Hollywood will insist on a female love interest" to get there.

This is such a well-trodden path.

**Hollow**

You would need at least $400 MILLION dollars in commitment for a 3 film deal, which would be filmed together, in order to get as much bang for your buck as possible.

The HH has been built up into such a huge story that a 3 film deal, to paint the broad stokes of what happened, would be a great way to launch the 40k IP. It would then set the viewer up to explore the 40k millenium though the game.

I think that GW would need to approach it with a good decade long plan similar to what Marvel has done.

Year 1 - Horus Heresy Part 1
Year 2 - Horus Heresy Part 2
Year 3 - Horus Heresy Part 3

With 2 faction specific films each year thereafter. You could launch further trilogies with Necromunda, Space Hulk. With large tent-pole pictures focusing on significant events like the 13th Black crusade, Battle for Macragge, etc with smaller more intimate stories based on rogue trader etc.

While the setting is there I do think it struggles with compelling, likeable characters.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Banville wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Banville wrote:
My point is, people who play 40k will obviously be okay with a space marine or even an Eldar protagonist. For a movie or series to be commissioned or optioned you'd need to aim for a wider demographic and make it accessible to the general non-gaming public.

When you boil it down, Astartes are genocidal killing machines. With the noted exception of the Salamanders, who believe burning people to death is still, somehow, okay. They also, and this is important, see the world differently to us. They ignore most wounds. THEY KNOW NO FEAR. They're hard to connect with from a movie audience perspective. You can't afford to get into the amount of exposition you can get away with in print when working with film.

So, you'll end up softening and humanising our hypothetical Astartes protagonist and having fans of the game disowning the whole project for removing the grimdark.

Now, a series based on Caiaphus Cain, arch, self-aware and cynical, that might work.

I don't agree, when film companies make re-makes of things, they always fail unless they stay true to the actual original. Its like with superhero films or anime films like ghost in the shell, they are always terrible because instead of staying true to what works and what people already love, production companies instead alter the original thing that worked to try and appease a wider demographic. I mean the fans alone would would bring in a return on the project. So if you are doing an Imperium faction focus it would be silly to miss out SM on that basis. I mean in GW space marines sell, they always get the most focus and push.

except that 40k fans alone are not eneugh to sell a 40k movie, a 40k movie would (especially if it invovled space marines) by necessity need to have a HUUUGE bugdet for special effects. This BTW is why I proposed a Eisenhorn based netflix series. they could mostly keep it down low, but the finalle of the first season would be the end of Xenos, a reasonably big conflict that would have space Marines.

I think we'd all be surprised, our fanbase is enough to keep GW it going. Its safe to say every fan will see it. GW make 100 million in sales in 6 months. Just the GW fan-base, say there are 1million of us buying a ticket for the cinema is 10 million in cinema tickets, DVD's would sell more than that, that's 20 millions there and that's being conservative, plus technology has come leaps and bounds, look at the Inquisitor film and that is just a fan made film. They could do a budget for 20 million as a minumum, which they could do but even at 50 million I think they'd make a fantastic return, then there would be all the sci-fi and geek fans, they'll run to see it and then you'll have regular public. If they made the film amazing, I think they'd do very well. I mean netflix could even do it. I mean we can't know what it'll sell bit we do know there are guaranteed sales and production companies now salavate when they here that, WOW, superhero films, anime etc. They are even making a battle angel alita film and that is an obscure manga in the west. Now with the profits GW rake in I wouldn't be surprised if a production company stuck its nose into 40k, plus the Ultramarine film was a failure not because of the fan base, it was a failure as it was terribly made. I just wish peter jackson would get off his fat ass and make a series of 40k or HH films, he is a fan.

Sorry, dude. I've some experience in writing stuff. You're talking 150 million US Dollars for anything that looks in any way epic plus, and I reiterate, plus, another at least 100 million in marketing. And that's at the lower scale of epic Sci fi.

That's ridiculous, 250 million dollars, yeah for a titanic type blockbuster. You wouldn't need anything at that scale. I mean look at the budgets that netflix work with. and look at the quality a simple fan made film can produce in the inquisitor film. Imagine what that guy could do with 20-50 million.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimtuff wrote:
And my prophecy has nearly been fulfilled already....

Only 2 or 3 more squares to go on this thread's bingo card Dakka. Still gotta hit the "GW will never give up merchandising rights" and "Hollywood will insist on a female love interest" to get there.

This is such a well-trodden path.

Do you feel proud. Its just sad that jaded cop routine, no one cares.

**Hollow**

I don't think you have a grasp on how much this stuff costs. You would need AT LEAST that amount if you take into consideration marketing costs.

Just recently... Valerian cost near $200 million dollars with no large names attached.

1 Episode of Game of Thrones costs in excess of 10 million.

**Banville**

Grimtuff wrote:
And my prophecy has nearly been fulfilled already....

Only 2 or 3 more squares to go on this thread's bingo card Dakka. Still gotta hit the "GW will never give up merchandising rights" and "Hollywood will insist on a female love interest" to get there.

This is such a well-trodden path.

Yep. Investors want their money back, hence soooooo many movies sticking to a formula, especially, and I can't stress this enough, big budget action ones.

Therefore, to make it both practicable and in keeping with the integrity of the setting etc, you're looking at doing a more intimate movie. If you want to do space opera it'll cost lots of spondulicks and your soul. If you keep true to the source material you have to sacrifice scope. And that's it. Unless you get an investor who's willing to take a giant punt on the US film market (very conservative and notoriously needing to be spoon fed exposition) really taking to inhuman, gene modified killing machines killing lots of other random dudes for some vague purpose with roots in a mythical past which nobody even remembers anymore cos it was 10,000 years ago. Or because they hate anyone who isn't human. Because the human race is inherently superior. What's that Mr Producer? Why, yes. They do sound a lot like the SS in space.

Sooooo...a narrow focus Netflix series or mid-budget quirky war movie is realistically what we're looking at. Both could be done really well, by the way.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Hollow wrote:
I don't think you have a grasp on how much this stuff costs. You would need AT LEAST that amount if you take into consideration marketing costs.

Just recently... Valerian cost near $200 million dollars with no large names attached.

Again for a blockbuster, sure but not these days the market has changed, you can do a lot more with a lot less. there have been plenty of 10-20 million budgets that have grossed hundreds of millions of dollars. Plus if they spent 200 million on a GW film and they had the right script directer cast etc. It would do well as the more money they spend on it the more average people will go see it, that is if it is a good film though.

**Hollow**

Perhaps... Although think of the MASSIVE risk that was taken with LOTR.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Hollow wrote:
Perhaps... Although think of the MASSIVE risk that was taken with LOTR.

Yeah that's why I mention peter jackson, a fan would take that risk. But I think in the future they'll probably be a 40k film. probably not a trilogy though, but it'd be amazing.

**Banville**

P. S. I think Pacific Rim cost about 185 million in production plus another 125 million in marketing. Again without any A list celebs involved.

**Hollow**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
It would do well as the more money they spend on it the more average people will go see it, that is if it is a good film though.

Look at transformers etc to see that this isn't the case. A film can be objectively terrible and the mouth breathing masses will flock to it like flies to gak. I don't know what people see in their minds eye when they imagine the 40k universe. I just think that to bring the various artwork to life, the scale and scope of the setting coupled with the huge amount of SFX that would be needed you are talking $200 Million as a starter.

**Banville**

And LOTR is one of the most popular novels ever written. It had a worldwide market of the entire English speaking world. There really was no risk involved as long as the director was decent and their vision was clear.

**CapRichard**

Everyone. I just want a massive bolter porn made with the money of an Avenger Movie.

**Banville**

Anyway, what I'm seeing is Netflix Cain. Humour is good and because he's dealing with morons a lot of the time you have inbuilt exposition to help the audience out. Marines can stay in the background as this barely hinted at coming apocalypse. Like the White Walkers. You could have a shot of a battle barge slipping through space, inexorable and silent. And ominous.

Or Gaunts Ghosts. That's also work.

**Hollow**

Wrong. Fantasy cinema was seen as a money pit at the time and had been shackled with poorly performing projects throughout the 80's and 90's. This was far from a certain hit. The idea of filming all of them together was something that had never been tried before and the fact that the studio allowed for not 2 (As was Jackson's original pitch) but 3 films to be made for an original budget north of 250 MILLION dollars, to a little known director who up until that point hadn't helmed any significant projects.

The LOTR trilogy was a MASSIVE risk which could have sunk New line cinema if the first film had flopped.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Banville wrote:
P. S. I think Pacific Rim cost about 185 million in production plus another 125 million in marketing. Again without any A list celebs involved.

It doesn't matter if they don't have an A-list cast, some projects will purposefully not use A-listers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollow wrote:
Wrong. Fantasy cinema was seen as a money pit at the time and had been shackled with poorly performing projects throughout the 80's and 90's. This was far from a certain hit. The idea of filming all of them together was something that had never been tried before and the fact that the studio allowed for not 2 (As was Jackson's original pitch) but 3 films to be made for an original budget north of 250 MILLION dollars, to a little known director who up until that point hadn't helmed any significant projects.

The LOTR trilogy was a MASSIVE risk which could have sunk New line cinema if the first film had flopped.

However he set the standard, it may be a risk but its been done successfully before. Its just a matter of a coin toss of them actually taking the risk.

**Hollow**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
It doesn't matter if they don't have an A-list cast, some projects will purposefully not use A-listers.

Well it does matter. A LOT. The point is that you don't have A list names sucking up massive chunks of your budget like Robert Downey Jr taking $40 Million for Avengers. Or Depp for the 4th Pirates movie (Which cost over $400 Million Dollars) That was the point that was being made (which went completely over your head)

**Banville**

Hollow wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
It doesn't matter if they don't have an A-list cast, some projects will purposefully not use A-listers.

Well it does matter. A LOT. The point is that you don't have A list names sucking up massive chunks of your budget like Robert Downey Jr taking $40 Million for Avengers. Or Depp for the 4th Pirates movie (Which cost over $400 Million Dollars) That was the point that was being made (which went completely over your head)

That was my point, yes. I still don't think LOTR was that much of a risk, though. But this is all hypothetical.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, what we're trying to decide is what would the movie look like? I'd love a 250 million epic, by the way.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Hollow wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
It doesn't matter if they don't have an A-list cast, some projects will purposefully not use A-listers.

Well it does matter. A LOT. The point is that you don't have A list names sucking up massive chunks of your budget like Robert Downey Jr taking $40 Million for Avengers. Or Depp for the 4th Pirates movie (Which cost over $400 Million Dollars) That was the point that was being made (which went completely over your head)

Yeah but they can make hundreds of millions on films without A-list celebrities, adding A-list celebrities isn't going to always up the price of a film, lots of times production companies will spend small budgets the film, spend more on an A-list cast and get results. Or if they chose not to get an A-list cast they can spend the majority on the actual production. or they can go all out with an A-list cast and and A-list production. Having an A-list cast doesn't mean it has to be a massive budget. Saying "that's 100 mil without an A-list budget" doesn't mean that your average budget without an A-list cast is always 100 mil.

**Hollow**

If only there was a way of finding out about how these numbers work, what does a budget actually mean and how it is distributed..... if only.

Like if there was a website you could type 'Film budgets' into and it would give you a selection of other sites detailing all of this information and giving you a rundown of what the average cost of bringing a MID-LEVEL movie to market is (Spoiler alert! its $100 Million plus+ because this does exist, its called google you should try it sometime)

**Delvarus Centurion**

Hollow wrote:
If only there was a way of finding out about how these numbers work, what does a budget actually mean and how it is distributed..... if only.

Like if there was a website you could type 'Film budgets' into and it would give you a selection of other sites detailing all of this information and giving you a rundown of what the average cost of bringing a MID-LEVEL movie to market is (Spoiler alert! its $100 Million plus+ because this does exist, its called google you should try it sometime)

Be an donkey-cave all you want. Even if the average is 100 million that isn't because there are no A-listers in all those movies.

**SkavenLord**

Banville wrote:
Anyway, what I'm seeing is Netflix Cain. Humour is good and because he's dealing with morons a lot of the time you have inbuilt exposition to help the audience out. Marines can stay in the background as this barely hinted at coming apocalypse. Like the White Walkers. You could have a shot of a battle barge slipping through space, inexorable and silent. And ominous.

Or Gaunts Ghosts. That's also work.

I’d agree with Ciphas Cain. Not sure if it’s the best entry to 40k if you want to sell the grimdark, but the humour can give the people who aren’t 40k fans something to enjoy. From what I’ve heard, the books themselves are relatively self-contained as well. The idea of a Netflix series is an interesting one, though I’m curious to see how it would be adapted while still keeping its pacing.

An IG movie itself would be interesting. When you consider that the guardsmen are just humans, it can make them more relatable than astartes. You can even sell viewers on more tense moments, since these vulnerable humans are standing down beings who are individually much more powerful than they are. Maybe a Band of Brothers sort of deal where you follow one squad?

**Bobthehero**

The BoB, but Guardsmen, is/was a popular suggestion in the past, could be nice, but at that point you may as well call them the Gaunt's Ghost

**Enigma of the Absolute**

A movie which tries to cover the major plotlines of the 40k universe is just a terrible, terrible idea on so many levels. Just no.

A much better idea is to use the setting for stories which are smaller in scope. My preference would be for a series of shorter character focused storylines in a comic book style. These individual storylines would be contained within a single overarching narrative.

Example:

Story A follows a Culexus assassin who has been sent to assassinate the planetary governor who has been corrupted by Chaos. Ends in failure.

Story B follows a Space Marine captain on the same planet a few months later as a full blown civil war has broken out. Ends with the opening of a warp rift and the onset of a daemonic incursion.

Story C follows an Inquisitor trying to recover an important artefact from the surface of the planet before implementing an exterminatus order.

(The above is just an example)

**bullyboy**

Just do Storm of Iron, inflate the role of the one female guardswoman who survives the assault. Hawke can be made an even bigger role. Just need more intro to flesh it out,,but battle scenes are good to go.

**BrianDavion**

bullyboy wrote:
Just do Storm of Iron, inflate the role of the one female guardswoman who survives the assault. Hawke can be made an even bigger role. Just need more intro to flesh it out,,but battle scenes are good to go.

heck would the story be ANY differant if Hawke was a woman?