The Emperor talking to Perpetual Oll Persson outside of Nineveh

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**evil_kiwi_60**

This is hardly the first time the story got changed. It went from a guardsman, to a terminator, to a custode. Now its a perpetual. Personally the guardsman always smacked of propaganda. The Vengeful Spirit was attacked by a teleport strike. How did any guardsman get selected for teleportation, much less actually survive on the flagship of the Sons of Horus?

In a way Ollanius's death does mean more. Every other option will stand in the way of Horus because it is there duty to do so. It is a soldier's or warrior's duty to stand in the line for their cause. They have no moral choice in the matter. Ollanius could step aside and live an anonymous life at any point. Instead he chooses to be there and gives up any chance of that.

**Onething123456**

evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
This is hardly the first time the story got changed. It went from a guardsman, to a terminator, to a custode. Now its a perpetual. Personally the guardsman always smacked of propaganda. The Vengeful Spirit was attacked by a teleport strike. How did any guardsman get selected for teleportation, much less actually survive on the flagship of the Sons of Horus?

In a way Ollanius's death does mean more. Every other option will stand in the way of Horus because it is there duty to do so. It is a soldier's or warrior's duty to stand in the line for their cause. They have no moral choice in the matter. Ollanius could step aside and live an anonymous life at any point. Instead he chooses to be there and gives up any chance of that.

Thank you for thoughts on Perpetual Oll Persson. And Voltstagge gave his thoughts as well.

**pm713**

If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

**Onething123456**

pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

Alright. And the Emperor clearly forced the Word Bearers to kneel in this part.

+Kneel+ it whispered with the power of a hammer to the forehead. There was no resisting. Muscles acted instantly, no matter that many hearts fought not to obey. Argel Tal was one of them. This was not fealty, nor worship, nor service. This was slavery, and his instincts rebelled at the enforced devotion even as he obeyed it.

**evil_kiwi_60**

pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

Why not grab another space marine then? There's going to be limited spots on the teleportation pad/room already. And in CQB like a boarding more bodies does not always help. There is also a massive difference between stumbling your way through a maze and actively fighting through tight confines.

Duty is not a choice. It is an obligation. Any of those actions would be a disgrace on their service.

**pm713**

evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

Why not grab another space marine then? There's going to be limited spots on the teleportation pad/room already. And in CQB like a boarding more bodies does not always help. There is also a massive difference between stumbling your way through a maze and actively fighting through tight confines.

Duty is not a choice. It is an obligation. Any of those actions would be a disgrace on their service.

Obligation or not you can choose to go along with that obligation. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a Guardsmen sneaking away in a fight. They might disgrace themselves but what stops them doing it?

There is but in a battle between Chaos Marines and Custodes, multiple Primarchs and Space Marines whose going to pay that much attention to a Guardsmen?

Presumably they ran out of Marines to put on the telepad. Those kinds of questions (while reasonable) just poke holes in all of 40k.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Onething123456 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

-snip-

Okay. So?

**Onething123456**

So DarknessEternal was trolling. And the Emperor's voice sent the Word Bearers flying, as I have quoted in the other thread about the quote from The First Heretic. But thats off topic here. I think Perpetual Oll Persson works.

**Onething123456**

pm713 wrote:
The quote only showed the Mechanicum THINKS he did that. The Mechanicum take HUNDREDS of years to approve swapping the sponson weapons of a Predator.

Forcing all humanity to serve him, exterminating aliens he encountered regardless of their culture and historical interaction with humans and wrecking any decent ecosystem are pretty awful.

The Horus Heresy books focus on the warfare so they're hardly going to talk about the brutal genocide of peaceloving race 12. Even without that you have things like Interex and Diasporex who could easily have been talked to but just got shot instead.

Imperium in any state is a gakky place to live if you aren't indoctrinated in it. Children being taken to be turned into inhuman soldiers, forced massive industrialisation of your world/conversion to whatever the Imperium wants, no right to self rule and any chance of friendly relations with aliens being ruined forever are pretty bad.

30k Imperium isn't as bad as 40k Imperium but that's like saying losing a finger is better than losing a hand.

I know this a late reply. buy you don;t know what you are talking about. No one in the Mechanicum even knows about the Void Dragon, so no. And you do realize Semyon has the Emperor's power and knowledge, sees what he does and knows what he is talking about? He knows from having the Emperor's power, and from the Emperor telling him.

He does not think, he KNOWS. You are wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:
evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

Why not grab another space marine then? There's going to be limited spots on the teleportation pad/room already. And in CQB like a boarding more bodies does not always help. There is also a massive difference between stumbling your way through a maze and actively fighting through tight confines.

Duty is not a choice. It is an obligation. Any of those actions would be a disgrace on their service.

Obligation or not you can choose to go along with that obligation. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a Guardsmen sneaking away in a fight. They might disgrace themselves but what stops them doing it?

There is but in a battle between Chaos Marines and Custodes, multiple Primarchs and Space Marines whose going to pay that much attention to a Guardsmen?

Presumably they ran out of Marines to put on the telepad. Those kinds of questions (while reasonable) just poke holes in all of 40k.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Onething123456 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
If you're fighting a battle that literally everything hinges on then you take everyone you can. Even the Guardsmen seeing as every bolt they take is a bolt that isn't hitting a Custodes.
As for original Ollanius reaching Horus then that's a numbers game. If I release a hundred rats into a maze then eventually one will make it.

I think a Guardsmen has a lot of choice in it. He could run and hide, turn on his allies or do something else. But instead he chose to do his duty.

-snip-

Okay. So?

And why would a Guardsman sneak in? Let alone know where Horus' ship is?

I, and many Redditers think, that Perpetual Oll Persson craps on the old fluff.

And Perpetual Oll Persson dying does have meaning because Perpetuals are dead for good if they are slain by Chaos.

**Andykp**

The story has shifted about a bit. At one point they fought on the palace walls and things.

**insaniak**

Whatever point this thread had seems to have been lost somewhere along the line.