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The Newman wrote:Kill Team sounds like a good suggesting, but I'd caution against trusting it to help you pick a faction. Some armies that feel strong at those extremely low point values stop working when the options open up.

So you're saying Tyranids and, now due to Elites, Grey Knights aren't some of the best Factions in 40k? Yeah, Kill Team definitely has a different meta to full 40k at the faction level. If a powerful army isn't the end goal Kill Team works pretty good to test the waters if a player wants to know if they will like the GW tabletop, the hhhobby. I suppose Kill Team would also work okay if a new player was particularly interested a faction and wanted to start small moving to a full army. I have a couple of factions (Orks and Primaris) I would like to expand into small armies simply because I enjoyed paint the models of that faction. Kill Team has also shown me there are factions I absolutely would dislike expanding into full 40k armies (Tyranids and Necrons). I just didn't enjoy painting them. I couldn't even really tell you why.

About what Elbows said:
I pretty much agree. I have encounteed a couple players than don't mind their gray armies and show up week after week for years, but I don't know if that is typical. I certainly don't understand it.

Painting pretty much always takes more time and effort than you think. I have been painting for years and probably few thousand minis, and I still sometimes forget how much effort/focus miniatures painting can take. Oh the hubris. I think Elbows suggestion of getting a unit and painting it before getting the next one is pretty good. To save money, I often get the boxed sets and that is almost always overwhelming in the number of models I have to paint in front of me all at once. But I can knock out a 5-10 man over the course of a week (or weekend if I have more free time and gumption) much easier since I don't have a mob of primed dudes looking at me waiting for their turn.

I definitely agree about the strength of your army. One, it is going to probably take a fair amount of time to build and paint your army. Two, even if it doesn't, it is going to take a while to learn the ins and outs of 40k at a competitive level. I can't say 40k is highly strategic nor tactical, but it does require the player to know a lot of information. Like a lot, a lot of information. You basically need to know all the rules for your faction and then every other faction and then, then how all these factions can ally or otherwise synergize to maximize their power. That is not going to happen for a while. The 8th edition meta moves very quickly, so by the time you get your first army built and learn basics of min/maxing the rules that army overpowered day in the sun may be past. Like I said, 40k isn't exactly strategic or tactical, so playing at highly competitive level means chasing the meta dragon which has only gotten faster with constant FAQs/Chapter Approveds.

Finding the right group it very important. I completely agree with Elbows again that playing against an opponent that absolutely crushes you won't really make you a better player the same way playing against an opponent in sports or video games won't really make you better. Or if it does, it will probably be at a slower rate than playing against opponents more inline with your current skill level. A player can probably correct a handful of errors after a game, but they should have at least have some ideas of things that worked too even if they won't work at a higher skill level. It is at least a frame work to evolve off of. If you play a game and nothing seemed to work, what do you build on? Some of things you did may have worked in another situation but were completely shut down like things that wouldn't really work in any situation.

If you want to be competitive, you do need to fully study the rules. I think a good chunk of what separates good competitive 40k players from bad competitive players is their knowledge of the rules. This isn't even about how to manipulate those rules. It is simply the player that knows the rules better is less likely to put themselves in a bad situation when the rules are forgotten or unclear. Even at the highest levels of competitive play, 40k players make incorrect interpretations of the rules. There isn't a computer making sure the rules are being followed. Just two humans with possibly a third judging it. This isn't about cheating either, just making mistakes and not catching them. If you get what I mean. I don't think I am being clear here.

Welcome!

I ditto what Elbows said. (He apparently has his moments... )

I would just add, as its been pointed out its a great long term time commitment at the end of the day if you are planning on having an army. Therefore, pick something you like the feel of and resonates with your inner barbarian and which will give you enjoyment in modeling, converting and painting.

Hope to see your army take shape over the coming years.

To those who say "You have to paint your models!" you really don't.

I love this hobby, the building and the gaming, but I'm not a painting fan. If you like to paint, then paint! If you don't, don't. I'd heartily recommend TRYING painting, but don't feel you have to.

I'll disagree with JNA heavily here, but that's for another thread.

 Elbows wrote:
I'll disagree with JNA heavily here, but that's for another thread.

It's fine to disagree with me-if painting is central to how you enjoy the hobby, great. Just don't assume everyone has the same views you do, and don't FORCE your views on anyone else.

I actually think it'd be good if the OP does love painting, because painted models are cool. But if they don't... Then it's their hobby, and that's fine.

Another thread. If you're insisting I don't push an opinion - don't push one of yours.

 Elbows wrote:
Another thread. If you're insisting I don't push an opinion - don't push one of yours.

Good thing I didn't? Hell, I even said:

I'd heartily recommend TRYING painting, but don't feel you have to.

So... I'm confused as to what you think I'm pushing.

 JNAProductions wrote:
To those who say "You have to paint your models!" you really don't.

You technically don't, but just keep in mind that many of us are going to look down on you for playing with unpainted models, many tournaments (and narrative events, etc) will not allow you to play, and you may have a hard time finding anyone willing to play pickup games if there are other players with painted armies. And TBH if you don't enjoy the painting aspect of the hobby you really should find a different game. 40k's rules are a raging dumpster fire of bad game design and the primary redeeming factor is the spectacle of the painted models. If you don't care about the models then why not play a cardboard token wargame? You'll have better rules and spend $50 instead of $500+.

I’ve never had an issue getting a Pick Up Game at my local GW due to a lack of painting. And looking down on someone for enjoying a hobby differently is a jerk move.

If you do intend for tournaments, though, you do painted models. That much is true.

I strongly disagree with JNAProductions. And agree with Peregrine 100% and i think painting is basically necessary if you don't want to look like you are watering down the hobby. But i wont go on because i have already spoken about this loudly on dakka.

 JNAProductions wrote:
To those who say "You have to paint your models!" you really don't.

I love this hobby, the building and the gaming, but I'm not a painting fan. If you like to paint, then paint! If you don't, don't. I'd heartily recommend TRYING painting, but don't feel you have to.

You can do with your models whatever you like. It´s your property. Do a sea of grey plastic look good? Nope. Painting the stuff is a large aspect of the hobby. It would be the same, if you buy a movie and turn off the sound while watching it.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
To those who say "You have to paint your models!" you really don't.

I love this hobby, the building and the gaming, but I'm not a painting fan. If you like to paint, then paint! If you don't, don't. I'd heartily recommend TRYING painting, but don't feel you have to.

You can do with your models whatever you like. It´s your property. Do a sea of grey plastic look good? Nope. Painting the stuff is a large aspect of the hobby. It would be the same, if you buy a movie and turn off the sound while watching it.

It's an aspect not everyone enjoys. I'll agree that painted models (if painted well, at least) look better than gray models, but painting is not important to everyone who builds or plays.

If the OP enjoys painting and wants to paint their models, that's great. If they don't, then they don't have to.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

The Newman wrote:Kill Team sounds like a good suggesting, but I'd caution against trusting it to help you pick a faction. Some armies that feel strong at those extremely low point values stop working when the options open up.

So you're saying Tyranids and, now due to Elites, Grey Knights aren't some of the best Factions in 40k? Yeah, Kill Team definitely has a different meta to full 40k at the faction level.

Oh I'm not talking about meta, I'm talking about how things scale up. At the Kill Team level an individual Marine can seem pretty tough while Guard seem to have issues with Morale. Scale up to 1000 points and Marine survivability evaporates under all the anti-tank weapons while Guard morale issues cease to be relevant.

It's just meant to be cautionary. The way a given army feels in KT isn't necessarily going to translate up into 40k, which is worth bearing in mind if that matters to the OP.

Elbows wrote:Disclaimer: Debbie Downer post inbound!

First off, welcome. Second off...ignore 80% of what you're reading on the internet. Warhammer 40K, 8th edition is a hugely popular game...and with that comes a load of cliques and groups of players who will send you in a million directions and make your head spin. They'll call units garbage, or must-haves, and they'll try to steer you in the direction of how they play or what they play. All I have for you is blunt common-sense advice:

1) Start with the two week rule. Even when you think you've made a decision on an army...don't buy it. Wait two or three weeks and see if you're still interested.

2) Don't build a grey plastic army, particulalry if you're new. Loads, and I mean LOADS of new players quit 40K within six months of starting, having blown a wad of cash and then eBaying or throwing out their models never to touch them again. Tabletop wargaming as a whole is a time-intensive hobby and it isn't for everyone. Seeing armies on YouTube or at a local club is one thing....collecting, painting, and playing an army is another thing. See the following points:

3) Build, then paint. Don't buy $500 worth of stuff, and assemble it...only to realize you don't really like the army or the game. If you have friends who play, try playing with a loaner army or in some team games and see what armies you like - and indeed if you even like 40K. Sometimes the shiny syndrome wears off quickly and you realize you're not really stoked about the concept of building and painting minis etc. So if you start a collection, start small and build one unit at a time, painting it if you can. That way if you say "feth this" in a few months you've invested less money and you can make money back on stuff that's still in the box. Opened/assembled/painted minis go for far less money if you're trying to recover costs.

4) Do not consider strength and "game power" for your first army. 40K isn't terribly expensive (unless you're still in school sometimes), but it is time intensive. You're going to spend a 4:1 ratio (minimum) of time building/painting vs. actually playing. This is why it's paramount for you to actually really like what you're collecting/painting. I see people flit from army to army based on game performance or wanting something new...and then I make money selling off their half-completed armies on eBay for them. While the game is not expensive you can lose a gak ton of money by going in big...only to sell off something you no longer like in a few weeks.

5) Find someone suitable to play against. You have some people who will just mercilessly beat the gak out of you because they're competitive donkey-caves...and you'll quit the game in a week. Find someone who is either new, or a friendly gamer who's willing to teach you how to play. Contrary to a few loud-mouth donkey-caves, there's no point in beating a new player to death so they can learn from their mistakes. That won't encourage you to actually come back. I've seen players quit after losing 4-5 games in a row. Find someone who will match your challenge and take the time to teach you the fundamental concepts. When you get confident, then step up the quality of the lists and the competitive level.

6) Study the rules and watch good battle reports. It's more or less impossible to learn the game without playing it or watching it a ton. Even reading the rules thoroughly (which you should do) won't make you understand all of the intricacies of the game.

7) In short...invest small, and make sure you're into it before you blow a ton of money on something you'll ditch in three months. I'd heavily suggest finding a local group and asking to partake in some games before you even consider buying something. Most players will gladly let you hop in a team game, or will provide an army for you.

Thank you for the comprehensive advice. My current FLGS is mostly a comic book shop with some tabletop games thrown in, so I'll need to find a store that's very dedicated to wargames within the confines of my local area. One other question, would Kill Team be a good way to start off small?

Not Online!!! wrote:Elbows got it right.
That should be the way you go about the hobby.

He's/She's certainly very thorough in their advice, that's for sure.

 K9ofChaos wrote:

Elbows wrote:Disclaimer: Debbie Downer post inbound!

First off, welcome. Second off...ignore 80% of what you're reading on the internet. Warhammer 40K, 8th edition is a hugely popular game...and with that comes a load of cliques and groups of players who will send you in a million directions and make your head spin. They'll call units garbage, or must-haves, and they'll try to steer you in the direction of how they play or what they play. All I have for you is blunt common-sense advice:

1) Start with the two week rule. Even when you think you've made a decision on an army...don't buy it. Wait two or three weeks and see if you're still interested.

2) Don't build a grey plastic army, particulalry if you're new. Loads, and I mean LOADS of new players quit 40K within six months of starting, having blown a wad of cash and then eBaying or throwing out their models never to touch them again. Tabletop wargaming as a whole is a time-intensive hobby and it isn't for everyone. Seeing armies on YouTube or at a local club is one thing....collecting, painting, and playing an army is another thing. See the following points:

3) Build, then paint. Don't buy $500 worth of stuff, and assemble it...only to realize you don't really like the army or the game. If you have friends who play, try playing with a loaner army or in some team games and see what armies you like - and indeed if you even like 40K. Sometimes the shiny syndrome wears off quickly and you realize you're not really stoked about the concept of building and painting minis etc. So if you start a collection, start small and build one unit at a time, painting it if you can. That way if you say "feth this" in a few months you've invested less money and you can make money back on stuff that's still in the box. Opened/assembled/painted minis go for far less money if you're trying to recover costs.

4) Do not consider strength and "game power" for your first army. 40K isn't terribly expensive (unless you're still in school sometimes), but it is time intensive. You're going to spend a 4:1 ratio (minimum) of time building/painting vs. actually playing. This is why it's paramount for you to actually really like what you're collecting/painting. I see people flit from army to army based on game performance or wanting something new...and then I make money selling off their half-completed armies on eBay for them. While the game is not expensive you can lose a gak ton of money by going in big...only to sell off something you no longer like in a few weeks.

5) Find someone suitable to play against. You have some people who will just mercilessly beat the gak out of you because they're competitive donkey-caves...and you'll quit the game in a week. Find someone who is either new, or a friendly gamer who's willing to teach you how to play. Contrary to a few loud-mouth donkey-caves, there's no point in beating a new player to death so they can learn from their mistakes. That won't encourage you to actually come back. I've seen players quit after losing 4-5 games in a row. Find someone who will match your challenge and take the time to teach you the fundamental concepts. When you get confident, then step up the quality of the lists and the competitive level.

6) Study the rules and watch good battle reports. It's more or less impossible to learn the game without playing it or watching it a ton. Even reading the rules thoroughly (which you should do) won't make you understand all of the intricacies of the game.

7) In short...invest small, and make sure you're into it before you blow a ton of money on something you'll ditch in three months. I'd heavily suggest finding a local group and asking to partake in some games before you even consider buying something. Most players will gladly let you hop in a team game, or will provide an army for you.

Thank you for the comprehensive advice. My current FLGS is mostly a comic book shop with some tabletop games thrown in, so I'll need to find a store that's very dedicated to wargames within the confines of my local area. One other question, would Kill Team be a good way to start off small?

Not Online!!! wrote:Elbows got it right.
That should be the way you go about the hobby.

He's/She's certainly very thorough in their advice, that's for sure.

Absolutely. Killteam is great to get you started. Onve you decide on what army you want to play you could pick a squad of basic troops for whatever army you want to play and use those dudes which can then be used in 40k as well.

With picking up some free bits/cheap bit box you can tweak those samesy troopers to be individuals for the purposes of killteam.

Alternatively if you are not confident in tweaking/converting you can just buy a killteam set off the shelf.

 Argive wrote:

 K9ofChaos wrote:

Elbows wrote:Disclaimer: Debbie Downer post inbound!

First off, welcome. Second off...ignore 80% of what you're reading on the internet. Warhammer 40K, 8th edition is a hugely popular game...and with that comes a load of cliques and groups of players who will send you in a million directions and make your head spin. They'll call units garbage, or must-haves, and they'll try to steer you in the direction of how they play or what they play. All I have for you is blunt common-sense advice:

1) Start with the two week rule. Even when you think you've made a decision on an army...don't buy it. Wait two or three weeks and see if you're still interested.

2) Don't build a grey plastic army, particulalry if you're new. Loads, and I mean LOADS of new players quit 40K within six months of starting, having blown a wad of cash and then eBaying or throwing out their models never to touch them again. Tabletop wargaming as a whole is a time-intensive hobby and it isn't for everyone. Seeing armies on YouTube or at a local club is one thing....collecting, painting, and playing an army is another thing. See the following points:

3) Build, then paint. Don't buy $500 worth of stuff, and assemble it...only to realize you don't really like the army or the game. If you have friends who play, try playing with a loaner army or in some team games and see what armies you like - and indeed if you even like 40K. Sometimes the shiny syndrome wears off quickly and you realize you're not really stoked about the concept of building and painting minis etc. So if you start a collection, start small and build one unit at a time, painting it if you can. That way if you say "feth this" in a few months you've invested less money and you can make money back on stuff that's still in the box. Opened/assembled/painted minis go for far less money if you're trying to recover costs.

4) Do not consider strength and "game power" for your first army. 40K isn't terribly expensive (unless you're still in school sometimes), but it is time intensive. You're going to spend a 4:1 ratio (minimum) of time building/painting vs. actually playing. This is why it's paramount for you to actually really like what you're collecting/painting. I see people flit from army to army based on game performance or wanting something new...and then I make money selling off their half-completed armies on eBay for them. While the game is not expensive you can lose a gak ton of money by going in big...only to sell off something you no longer like in a few weeks.

5) Find someone suitable to play against. You have some people who will just mercilessly beat the gak out of you because they're competitive donkey-caves...and you'll quit the game in a week. Find someone who is either new, or a friendly gamer who's willing to teach you how to play. Contrary to a few loud-mouth donkey-caves, there's no point in beating a new player to death so they can learn from their mistakes. That won't encourage you to actually come back. I've seen players quit after losing 4-5 games in a row. Find someone who will match your challenge and take the time to teach you the fundamental concepts. When you get confident, then step up the quality of the lists and the competitive level.

6) Study the rules and watch good battle reports. It's more or less impossible to learn the game without playing it or watching it a ton. Even reading the rules thoroughly (which you should do) won't make you understand all of the intricacies of the game.

7) In short...invest small, and make sure you're into it before you blow a ton of money on something you'll ditch in three months. I'd heavily suggest finding a local group and asking to partake in some games before you even consider buying something. Most players will gladly let you hop in a team game, or will provide an army for you.

Thank you for the comprehensive advice. My current FLGS is mostly a comic book shop with some tabletop games thrown in, so I'll need to find a store that's very dedicated to wargames within the confines of my local area. One other question, would Kill Team be a good way to start off small?

Not Online!!! wrote:Elbows got it right.
That should be the way you go about the hobby.

He's/She's certainly very thorough in their advice, that's for sure.

Absolutely. Killteam is great to get you started. Onve you decide on what army you want to play you could pick a squad of basic troops for whatever army you want to play and use those dudes which can then be used in 40k as well.

With picking up some free bits/cheap bit box you can tweak those samesy troopers to be individuals for the purposes of killteam.

Alternatively if you are not confident in tweaking/converting you can just buy a killteam set off the shelf.

I see, thank you for the advice! I do remember seeing a Tau Kill Team set that piqued my interest back at a comic book store I frequent regularly. But I'll look for more dedicated wargaming areas in order to test the waters and see if I actually like playing the darn game in the first place. I might consider getting a tutor for 40k mini painting though since I've never painted some before and don't feel that much confident in my non-existent skills in that department.

 K9ofChaos wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 K9ofChaos wrote:

Elbows wrote:Disclaimer: Debbie Downer post inbound!

First off, welcome. Second off...ignore 80% of what you're reading on the internet. Warhammer 40K, 8th edition is a hugely popular game...and with that comes a load of cliques and groups of players who will send you in a million directions and make your head spin. They'll call units garbage, or must-haves, and they'll try to steer you in the direction of how they play or what they play. All I have for you is blunt common-sense advice:

1) Start with the two week rule. Even when you think you've made a decision on an army...don't buy it. Wait two or three weeks and see if you're still interested.

2) Don't build a grey plastic army, particulalry if you're new. Loads, and I mean LOADS of new players quit 40K within six months of starting, having blown a wad of cash and then eBaying or throwing out their models never to touch them again. Tabletop wargaming as a whole is a time-intensive hobby and it isn't for everyone. Seeing armies on YouTube or at a local club is one thing....collecting, painting, and playing an army is another thing. See the following points:

3) Build, then paint. Don't buy $500 worth of stuff, and assemble it...only to realize you don't really like the army or the game. If you have friends who play, try playing with a loaner army or in some team games and see what armies you like - and indeed if you even like 40K. Sometimes the shiny syndrome wears off quickly and you realize you're not really stoked about the concept of building and painting minis etc. So if you start a collection, start small and build one unit at a time, painting it if you can. That way if you say "feth this" in a few months you've invested less money and you can make money back on stuff that's still in the box. Opened/assembled/painted minis go for far less money if you're trying to recover costs.

4) Do not consider strength and "game power" for your first army. 40K isn't terribly expensive (unless you're still in school sometimes), but it is time intensive. You're going to spend a 4:1 ratio (minimum) of time building/painting vs. actually playing. This is why it's paramount for you to actually really like what you're collecting/painting. I see people flit from army to army based on game performance or wanting something new...and then I make money selling off their half-completed armies on eBay for them. While the game is not expensive you can lose a gak ton of money by going in big...only to sell off something you no longer like in a few weeks.

5) Find someone suitable to play against. You have some people who will just mercilessly beat the gak out of you because they're competitive donkey-caves...and you'll quit the game in a week. Find someone who is either new, or a friendly gamer who's willing to teach you how to play. Contrary to a few loud-mouth donkey-caves, there's no point in beating a new player to death so they can learn from their mistakes. That won't encourage you to actually come back. I've seen players quit after losing 4-5 games in a row. Find someone who will match your challenge and take the time to teach you the fundamental concepts. When you get confident, then step up the quality of the lists and the competitive level.

6) Study the rules and watch good battle reports. It's more or less impossible to learn the game without playing it or watching it a ton. Even reading the rules thoroughly (which you should do) won't make you understand all of the intricacies of the game.

7) In short...invest small, and make sure you're into it before you blow a ton of money on something you'll ditch in three months. I'd heavily suggest finding a local group and asking to partake in some games before you even consider buying something. Most players will gladly let you hop in a team game, or will provide an army for you.

Thank you for the comprehensive advice. My current FLGS is mostly a comic book shop with some tabletop games thrown in, so I'll need to find a store that's very dedicated to wargames within the confines of my local area. One other question, would Kill Team be a good way to start off small?

Not Online!!! wrote:Elbows got it right.
That should be the way you go about the hobby.

He's/She's certainly very thorough in their advice, that's for sure.

Absolutely. Killteam is great to get you started. Onve you decide on what army you want to play you could pick a squad of basic troops for whatever army you want to play and use those dudes which can then be used in 40k as well.

With picking up some free bits/cheap bit box you can tweak those samesy troopers to be individuals for the purposes of killteam.

Alternatively if you are not confident in tweaking/converting you can just buy a killteam set off the shelf.

I see, thank you for the advice! I do remember seeing a Tau Kill Team set that piqued my interest back at a comic book store I frequent regularly. But I'll look for more dedicated wargaming areas in order to test the waters and see if I actually like playing the darn game in the first place. I might consider getting a tutor for 40k mini painting though since I've never painted some before and don't feel that much confident in my non-existent skills in that department.

Good idea. If you can get someone to show you the basics of painting and/or playing for free that's the best thing you can do.
Take it slow. Let the bug slowly grow

I love painted models, but I'm not great at the hand/eye coordination, skill, and creativity required to paint them myself. If I can find pre-painted models to play with, I use those. Otherwise, it's a sea of grey. I know some folks are gonna be like "well, keep practicing and your painting will get better" and this is probably true. But it's such a letdown to see something you devoted hours or days into look worse than the unpainted model you started with. Some people might use that as a drive to get better, but me? I'd rather let someone with actual skill do the work for me.

That's just my feeling on the matter. I love the 40k lore and I love getting together with friends and having fun with our fictional armies. "Smack talking" each other and comparing Factions to is just a blast. Painting just isn't something I enjoy as much as all the rest. And I'm sure there's people out there who are on the opposite end of the spectrum; people who prefer having a fully painted army that just looks spectacular over actually playing the game. And that's fine too. Unlike a lot of hobbies, there are just so many ways to enjoy 40k. And that's fantastic.

Pick whatever faction you think you'll enjoy painting 100 models of and enjoy owning if they suck arse in rules. The only faction that stays reliably competetive with a consistent playstyle is eldar, and that's only compared to the other factions. You might pick up tyranids or guard and find the next edition completely wrecks your playstyle.

 flandarz wrote:
I love painted models, but I'm not great at the hand/eye coordination, skill, and creativity required to paint them myself. If I can find pre-painted models to play with, I use those. Otherwise, it's a sea of grey. I know some folks are gonna be like "well, keep practicing and your painting will get better" and this is probably true. But it's such a letdown to see something you devoted hours or days into look worse than the unpainted model you started with. Some people might use that as a drive to get better, but me? I'd rather let someone with actual skill do the work for me.

That's just my feeling on the matter. I love the 40k lore and I love getting together with friends and having fun with our fictional armies. "Smack talking" each other and comparing Factions to is just a blast. Painting just isn't something I enjoy as much as all the rest. And I'm sure there's people out there who are on the opposite end of the spectrum; people who prefer having a fully painted army that just looks spectacular over actually playing the game. And that's fine too. Unlike a lot of hobbies, there are just so many ways to enjoy 40k. And that's fantastic.

Have you had anyone sit down with you for an afternoon to do some basic painting with you and talk you through it and give advice?
Just curious. I've had a couple guys from my club who said they sucked and were put off but actually just needed a little bit of tutoring to learn the basiciest of basics which is enough for table top quality. Also the new contrast paints might be good as they are applied over a primer straight from the pot. Not trying to whip a horse if its dead or anything

Not a whole lot of 40k gamers (or gamers in general) around this area, unfortunately. I don't think there's even a game shop within a reasonable distance from where I live. Mostly just use Amazon or Ebay for what I need. So, I ain't got a lot of options for tutors in painting, I'm afraid. TTS has been a lifesaver in just being able to enjoy the hobby at all for me, though occasionally I can coerce a friend to play. Unfortunately, we're all parents, so being able to have an overlapping timeframe to devote 2-5 hours to the hobby is pretty hard.

Eh. Maybe I'm just making excuses. I dunno. Painting just ain't my jam. Don't really got the time or motivation to put into it.

Argive wrote:

 K9ofChaos wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 K9ofChaos wrote:

Elbows wrote:Disclaimer: Debbie Downer post inbound!

First off, welcome. Second off...ignore 80% of what you're reading on the internet. Warhammer 40K, 8th edition is a hugely popular game...and with that comes a load of cliques and groups of players who will send you in a million directions and make your head spin. They'll call units garbage, or must-haves, and they'll try to steer you in the direction of how they play or what they play. All I have for you is blunt common-sense advice:

1) Start with the two week rule. Even when you think you've made a decision on an army...don't buy it. Wait two or three weeks and see if you're still interested.

2) Don't build a grey plastic army, particulalry if you're new. Loads, and I mean LOADS of new players quit 40K within six months of starting, having blown a wad of cash and then eBaying or throwing out their models never to touch them again. Tabletop wargaming as a whole is a time-intensive hobby and it isn't for everyone. Seeing armies on YouTube or at a local club is one thing....collecting, painting, and playing an army is another thing. See the following points:

3) Build, then paint. Don't buy $500 worth of stuff, and assemble it...only to realize you don't really like the army or the game. If you have friends who play, try playing with a loaner army or in some team games and see what armies you like - and indeed if you even like 40K. Sometimes the shiny syndrome wears off quickly and you realize you're not really stoked about the concept of building and painting minis etc. So if you start a collection, start small and build one unit at a time, painting it if you can. That way if you say "feth this" in a few months you've invested less money and you can make money back on stuff that's still in the box. Opened/assembled/painted minis go for far less money if you're trying to recover costs.

4) Do not consider strength and "game power" for your first army. 40K isn't terribly expensive (unless you're still in school sometimes), but it is time intensive. You're going to spend a 4:1 ratio (minimum) of time building/painting vs. actually playing. This is why it's paramount for you to actually really like what you're collecting/painting. I see people flit from army to army based on game performance or wanting something new...and then I make money selling off their half-completed armies on eBay for them. While the game is not expensive you can lose a gak ton of money by going in big...only to sell off something you no longer like in a few weeks.

5) Find someone suitable to play against. You have some people who will just mercilessly beat the gak out of you because they're competitive donkey-caves...and you'll quit the game in a week. Find someone who is either new, or a friendly gamer who's willing to teach you how to play. Contrary to a few loud-mouth donkey-caves, there's no point in beating a new player to death so they can learn from their mistakes. That won't encourage you to actually come back. I've seen players quit after losing 4-5 games in a row. Find someone who will match your challenge and take the time to teach you the fundamental concepts. When you get confident, then step up the quality of the lists and the competitive level.

6) Study the rules and watch good battle reports. It's more or less impossible to learn the game without playing it or watching it a ton. Even reading the rules thoroughly (which you should do) won't make you understand all of the intricacies of the game.

7) In short...invest small, and make sure you're into it before you blow a ton of money on something you'll ditch in three months. I'd heavily suggest finding a local group and asking to partake in some games before you even consider buying something. Most players will gladly let you hop in a team game, or will provide an army for you.

Thank you for the comprehensive advice. My current FLGS is mostly a comic book shop with some tabletop games thrown in, so I'll need to find a store that's very dedicated to wargames within the confines of my local area. One other question, would Kill Team be a good way to start off small?

Not Online!!! wrote:Elbows got it right.
That should be the way you go about the hobby.

He's/She's certainly very thorough in their advice, that's for sure.

Absolutely. Killteam is great to get you started. Onve you decide on what army you want to play you could pick a squad of basic troops for whatever army you want to play and use those dudes which can then be used in 40k as well.

With picking up some free bits/cheap bit box you can tweak those samesy troopers to be individuals for the purposes of killteam.

Alternatively if you are not confident in tweaking/converting you can just buy a killteam set off the shelf.

I see, thank you for the advice! I do remember seeing a Tau Kill Team set that piqued my interest back at a comic book store I frequent regularly. But I'll look for more dedicated wargaming areas in order to test the waters and see if I actually like playing the darn game in the first place. I might consider getting a tutor for 40k mini painting though since I've never painted some before and don't feel that much confident in my non-existent skills in that department.

Good idea. If you can get someone to show you the basics of painting and/or playing for free that's the best thing you can do.
Take it slow. Let the bug slowly grow

Once again, thanks for the advice.

flandarz wrote:I love painted models, but I'm not great at the hand/eye coordination, skill, and creativity required to paint them myself. If I can find pre-painted models to play with, I use those. Otherwise, it's a sea of grey. I know some folks are gonna be like "well, keep practicing and your painting will get better" and this is probably true. But it's such a letdown to see something you devoted hours or days into look worse than the unpainted model you started with. Some people might use that as a drive to get better, but me? I'd rather let someone with actual skill do the work for me.

That's just my feeling on the matter. I love the 40k lore and I love getting together with friends and having fun with our fictional armies. "Smack talking" each other and comparing Factions to is just a blast. Painting just isn't something I enjoy as much as all the rest. And I'm sure there's people out there who are on the opposite end of the spectrum; people who prefer having a fully painted army that just looks spectacular over actually playing the game. And that's fine too. Unlike a lot of hobbies, there are just so many ways to enjoy 40k. And that's fantastic.

Honestly, I can see myself being the same way. I love the look of painted models, but unless I get a really good tutor or some space to reliably let the paint dry without having to worry about the weather ruining all that hard work, I'd probably go for hiring a professional painter to do it for me.

Wyzilla wrote:Pick whatever faction you think you'll enjoy painting 100 models of and enjoy owning if they suck arse in rules. The only faction that stays reliably competetive with a consistent playstyle is eldar, and that's only compared to the other factions. You might pick up tyranids or guard and find the next edition completely wrecks your playstyle.

The Eldar's armor definitely looks cool, that's for sure.

On the painting thing, definitely try it see if you're like it. I personally love painting, I love showing off my work when I'm done. It's a pride thing. My lgs owner loves when I play there because my armies are painted. Thanks being said, if you find you don't enjoy it that's fine. There are people that can and will paint your stuff for you, for a price. Some buddies of mine actually do that on the side. They do good work, and I'm sure there's someone local to you that does the same thing.